Israel, Abraham, and Modern Times

[Guojing]

Any person who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, cannot be anything other than wrong.

The true movie is revealed by Christ's last three words on the cross.


Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Anyone who has to ignore the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6 has revealed his doctrine for what it really is.

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Israel is also promised land too, and a king that will sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Do you see Jesus in Jerusalem now?

 

[BABerean2]

Israel is also promised land too, and a king that will sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Do you see Jesus in Jerusalem now?

Try to ignore what Paul said below about genealogies, because it kills your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.


1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


Try to ignore the land promise to the Old Testament Saints, which is found below, because it kills your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Make sure you ignore the word "now" in the verse below, because it kills your Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


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[mkgal1]

Israel is also promised land too, and a king that will sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Do you see Jesus in Jerusalem now?

Do you see David on a throne in modern-day Jerusalem/Israel?

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will have a descendant sitting on the throne of Israel forever.​

As BABerean2 is pointing out, the Bible is referring to two Jerusalems (of that time period) that illustrated the two covenants:

Galatians 4​

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem [Paul's present-day...not ours], because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother​

 

[Guojing]

Do you see David on a throne in modern-day Jerusalem/Israel?

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will have a descendant sitting on the throne of Israel forever.​

As BABerean2 is pointing out, the Bible is referring to two Jerusalems (of that time period) that coincided with the two covenants:

Galatians 4​

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem [Paul's present-day...not ours], because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother​

Again, don't anticipate revelation.

The promise is based on Luke 1, when both the archangel Gabriel and the High priest Zechariah spoke, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The audience for those would not have understood it as a throne in heaven.

But because you probably don't subscribe to a literal 1000 year rule of Jesus Christ in the Jerusalem on Earth after the Tribulation, so maybe that is why you are spiritualizing this particular promise made to David in 2 Samuel 7.

 

[BABerean2]

Again, don't anticipate revelation.

The promise is based on Luke 1, when both the archangel Gabriel and the High priest Zechariah spoke, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The audience for those would not have understood it as a throne in heaven.

But because you probably don't subscribe to a literal 1000 year rule of Jesus Christ in the Jerusalem on Earth after the Tribulation, so maybe that is why you are spiritualizing this particular promise made to David in 2 Samuel 7.

You are ignoring the fact that Paul spoke of two different Jerusalems in Galatians 4:24-31. Which one is our "mother"?


There are also two different Jerusalems in the Book of Revelation.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem is the place to worship?

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[Guojing]

You are ignoring the fact that Paul spoke of two different Jerusalems in Galatians 4:24-31. Which one is our "mother"?


There are also two different Jerusalems in the Book of Revelation.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

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I am talking about how Mary understood Gabriel and what Zechariah was saying in Luke 1.

They are not referring to the heavens, they were looking forward to Jesus ruling on Earth, to save them from their enemies (Luke 1:71), which during that time was Rome.

 

[mkgal1]

They are not referring to the heavens, they were looking forward to Jesus ruling on Earth, to save them from their enemies (Luke 1:71), which during that time was Rome.

If that were true - then that means promises were broken .....because Jesus didn't fill a seat on earth. If this were referring to a throne on earth....then this promise was broken:

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

David's throne is in heaven.....Jesus is the descendant of David promised to take that throne....and He did.

 

[parousia70]

I am pre trib

Well, if that's true, It's clear You don't read the Bible literally then. You may want to amend your statement to the contrary.

 

[Timtofly]

If that were true - then that means promises were broken .....because Jesus didn't fill a seat on earth. If this were referring to a throne on earth....then this promise was broken:

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

David's throne is in heaven.....Jesus is the descendant of David promised to take that throne....and He did.

David’s throne is not spiritual. This earth has 1000 years left. David’s throne is still future. And the NHNE, will not change that earthly throne. That rule will extend into the NHNE.

Some prophecies that folks force to be fulfilled have not been fulfilled. They were not put on hold either. God has a plan and nothing has changed, no matter how much thought theology has come up with to reconcile God’s plan.

 

[mkgal1]

David’s throne is not spiritual. This earth has 1000 years left. David’s throne is still future.

How is this reconciled with Jeremiah 33, then? If this is future....(and to be fulfilled on earth)....then where on earth is King David....waiting for the Son of David to take His throne?

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

 

[Timtofly]

How is this reconciled with Jeremiah 33, then? If this is future....(and to be fulfilled on earth)....then where on earth is King David....waiting for the Son of David to take His throne?

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

Waiting for the times of the Gentiles to end at the battle of Armageddon.

Not that there never has been a "man". There has not been a throne to sit on. There was never a kingdom after Babylon.

 

[mkgal1]

Waiting for the times of the Gentiles to end at the battle of Armageddon.

Not that there never has been a "man". There has not been a throne to sit on. There was never a kingdom after Babylon.

Ah....so God makes loophole promises then (according to this belief). Where's the loophole in this promise?:

And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever” (2 Samuel 7:16). ​

Where are you getting the idea from that we're "waiting for the times of the Gentiles to end at the battle of Armageddon "?

 

[mkgal1]

Again, don't anticipate revelation.

The promise is based on Luke 1

Wait a minute.

How can Jeremiah's prophecy be based on the words of Luke? Luke came long after Jeremiah.

 

[Timtofly]

Ah....so God makes loophole promises then (according to this belief). Where's the loophole in this promise?:

And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever” (2 Samuel 7:16). ​

Where are you getting the idea from that we're "waiting for the times of the Gentiles to end at the battle of Armageddon "?

The dream of the image and the mountain not created by man. The book of Daniel.

 

[mkgal1]

The dream of the image and the mountain not created by man. The book of Daniel.

Can you tell me how you're reconciling 2 Samuel 7:16 with the belief that there's no throne of David now on earth....but will be in the future?

What particular passage in Daniel....could you quote it for me, please?

 

[Timtofly]

Can you tell me how you're reconciling 2 Samuel 7:16 with the belief that there's no throne of David now on earth....but will be in the future?

What particular passage in Daniel....could you quote it for me, please?

You are asking the wrong questions.

Show me in history an Israeli kingdom, spiritual or physical after the Babylonian captivity. Not a government or puppet kngdom.

 

[Guojing]

Well, if that's true, It's clear You don't read the Bible literally then. You may want to amend your statement to the contrary.

You are not aware that mid-acts dispensationalists has that as a principle?

 

[Guojing]

Wait a minute.

How can Jeremiah's prophecy be based on the words of Luke? Luke came long after Jeremiah.

I didn't say its based on Luke. I am saying 2 proclamations of Jesus were found in Luke 1.

Gabriel repeated the prophecy of Jeremiah to Mary in Luke 1.

Zechariah proclamation of what the birth of Jesus meant for Israel, is found in Luke 1:68-75 too.

 

[Guojing]

If that were true - then that means promises were broken .....because Jesus didn't fill a seat on earth. If this were referring to a throne on earth....then this promise was broken:

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,​

David's throne is in heaven.....Jesus is the descendant of David promised to take that throne....and He did.

Can I confirm you don't believe in a future 1000 year reign of Jesus on Earth?

 

[mkgal1]

You are asking the wrong questions.

Show me in history an Israeli kingdom, spiritual or physical after the Babylonian captivity. Not a government or puppet kngdom.

That's actually my point.

The Bible records a promise made that states:

Jeremiah 33:17 ~ For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel

2 Samuel 7:16 ~ And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before me; your throne shall be established for ever”
​

.....and we know that's not been true on earth (as you've posted).

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