Isn't There Middle Ground Between Pre & Post?

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

I did give it. Revelation 20:12 is plain and unequivocal; only then, at the Great White Throne, is the Book of Life opened. No- one gets immortality before then.
Any teaching that people receive immortality before the end of the Millennium, is wrong and false teaching, made to suit a false doctrine. Your scriptures don't even apply to this issue.

Afterthought:

No, those Scriptures were not meant to apply to that issue, but another issue. These are two issues here. Both really relatively minor, as I do not think anyone knows the full details on these matters. So, of course, some people try and fill in the blanks and settle on an answer. It is really, really difficult not to.


I should state: you are probably right that the Rider on the White Horse is Jesus.

Notice I say things as "probably", "may be", "appears to be", and in other such terms. Because, I do not settle on meanings until I am absolutely sure. I do not think others need to hold up to that standard, so I do not really judge them on it.

I was merely trying to gauge your work on these matters.

Sorting out seeming contradictions strikes me as a critical part of attempting to understand Scripture, or any very complex matter.

But, on the rider on the white horse, that was more of just an inquiry into your thought processes... while, the dying of those of the first resurrection is not.

The text states that 'they will reign with Christ for a thousand years'. I did reference scripture verses for that, though it is very clear in the chapter on the thousand years. It is stated multiple times.

There really is no code there, no cipher.

I can see how someone might be unable to believe that. But, merely stating that 'because the book of life was not yet opened' is certainly not an adequate argument -- as that most certainly is symbolic.

I have seen other posters on this thread argue otherwise as well, usually in denying such a thousand years even exists, or some convoluted story about how "it will be spiritual instead of physical", even though *of course it would be Spiritual*. No one states otherwise. It is a strawman argument.


All of this is a subthread, however, so I will not participate further. This topic here is simply on middle ground between post and pre trib. I do not believe, however, it is entirely offtopic, as you are expressing your views on pre and post trib, however. But, I will not engage in further discussion on this, as I will agree to disagree.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

[QUOTE="As there is no such thing as a 'rapture to heaven', your question is invalid.

Thinking there is to be a removal of all Christians before the Lord's wrath strikes, is just wrong and is refuted by much scripture. 1 Peter 3:12

You know thinking just now..I almost never reply hmm. Now maybe I missed it..got it wrong. But did not Christ tell them He was going to make them a place so where He was they will be? What gets me is one He looks them in the eye and says.. I AM leaving and will come back for you. He says HE is going to His Fathers house..just like a OLD Jewish wedding..hmm

He tells them He will come back for them so WHERE He is they will be. WHERE I go you know. So...where is this where? Fathers house. He will come back take them back to His Fathers house. I read where some thought Christ came and they missed it. So Paul tells them they did not. Paul well not Paul but the sweet sweet Holy Spirit tells them about at some point dead will rise then we will be changed and CAUGHT UP with them to meet Christ not on earth but in the air to be with Him forever.

You also said "that that removal is not to heaven, as Jesus has come down from heaven, on His way to earth for His Millennial reign." My brother what you said is not written. No where in 1-2nd Thes or before that book or after does it even hint Christ is coming to earth to reign. It does go on to talk about something that is holding back the lawless one and that when that/He is taken out of the way then and only then does the AC come on the stage.

Really not here to debate its the fact you share things that you in no way can back up. You talk about what others said and NOT written. Yet you did the same thing. Again "Coming form heaven to earth for His millennial reign". That is NOT whats in that letter.

Truth is..Christ left and will come back get us..fact.. when we don't know ready or not.. HE will come

Not sure who that is to, but the Father's house is the throne of God in Revelation 12, and Jesus described the 'throne of God' as "Heaven" in the Gospels, as we all know as we live by the Gospels.

The Rider on the White Horse is Jesus, and the dead are raised on earth. The Holy City of Zion descends from Heaven to earth [this was a vision, it is true but also symbolic]. And Jesus stated that Heaven is within and you do not literally see it come down from the sky. But, it is within and among you. Which is how people change in the midst of everyone else and there are those rejected who plead with Jesus on earth.

Further, this change Paul speaks of - and more symbolically these other verses - is the transfiguration which James, Peter, and John saw.

It is Heaven, but Heaven on earth.

'Our Father, who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your Name. Your Kingdom come. Your will be done. On earth, as it is in Heaven. '

This means Satan does lose everything, so Satan really does not like this teaching.

But, 'the whole earth will become full of the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea'.

Very anti-Satan verse.

Which is why I quote it so often.

The City, we see, in Revelation is on earth.

So, yes, to state that everyone leaves earth is incorrect but exactly what Satan wants people to believe. After all, Satan is not the Lord of Hell, the one who destroys the soul in hell. But, Satan is the Prince of this World.

And all these verses - and so, very, very many more - preach Satan will lose it all.

This is what we strive for. To save, not to destroy.

Not responding further to you on this, as Scripture is very clear on the matter.

The only reason to preach otherwise is then, what? For people to be blinded to the very spiritual war on earth we are doing and how important it is.

 

[Tayla]

My major problem with pre-tribulational rapture is the concept of *literally* being physically lifted from the earth, instead of taking all of that metaphorically.

In my view the rapture is the second coming of Christ. All the passages about it are strictly literal.