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Islamic State of the Muslim Caliphate

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Straightshot, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    Your story is quite amusing D

    Sorry, I don't buy it
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Oh, so you think Iraq is west of Israel? And that the term Antichrist is found in Revelation?
     
  3. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    From what direction do the scriptures tell of the neo-Babylon as coming upon Israel .... and what about the Assyrians?

    Do you know why?

    If one is in Israel it is from the north that the little horn will come

    The little horn is a king of the north .... in the Middle East [Daniel 11:36-45]

    And I must remind you that Europe is not north of Israel

    And you need to look around more than you must do

    Europe is in decline, the Pope is loosing his stature there, and the continent is being inundated with Muslims today

    This is reality and the prophetic scriptures all describe and name the populations of the Middle East that have been there for millennia ..... the same who are the direct and virulent enemies of Israel [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Joel 2:20; Micah 5; Obadiah 1:1-21; Zechariah 12; 14]

    And these are primarily muslin today

    The end time controversy is between Issac and Ishmael .... not Issac and "Rome"

    Your views are all outdated and not accurate .... the reformers and re-constructionists got it wrong and simply did not understand Bible prophecy

    And Satan's beast in the little horn will be "antichrist" .... against Jesus Christ

    The term "antichrist" does not mean "instead of" Jesus Christ .... and this term is overused by many who do not understand exactly what it means .... a loose term at best

    This one is describe in both the prophets and Revelation with much detail
     
  4. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    « Breaking News »
    Large-scale Iraqi Shiite forces stand ready to retake Tikrit
    DEBKAfile February 23, 2015, 6:33 PM (IDT)

    Western military sources reported Monday that large numbers of Iraqi Shiite militiamen are gathering in Samarra ready to advance on Tikrit 64 km to the north and retake it from ISIS occupation. They report that Iran’s Al Qods Brigades chief Gen. Qassem Soleimani is in Samarra, ready to lead the offensive, in the hope of success after several failed bids to recover the town.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    "neo-Babylon" - is some term you made up.

    And what end time passage refers to the Assyrians ?


    Greece is the territory of one the break-up kingdoms. Which is north and west of Israel. That's where the little horn leader of the EU will stage his army as he prepares to stave off Gog/Magog attacking Israel.

    There is no passage that says the little horn is the king of the north. The person who originates as the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8, eventually near the end of his time, in Daniel 11:36-45 is attacked from the south, then the north, then news from the north and east trouble him. So the little horn who is the king of the west will be fighting against the other 3 quadrants of the world.

    Now in your scenario, there would be the north, south, and east. The kings of the east are in Revelation 16, as marching across the Euphrates. So you have the north, south and east involved - but the most powerful by far militaries in the world when combined the EU and the United States and Canada - left out.

    Which does not match up with God drawing all nations against Jerusalem in Zechariah 14.
    Europe is about to evolve into that final form ten king (leader) government, having started out as the EEC..... as it says in Daniel 8:23 in the latter time of their kingdom, the kingdom of the transgressors when they have come to a full, i.e. the ten leader form of government....a king of fierce countenance, the little horn, stands up, makes ready for war.

    I don't subscribe to the Pope and/or office of Pope being the Antichrist, nor the False Prophet. I told you that before, but it is not registering I guess.

    You have mis-understood those properly. If you did, you would know that the 7 years follow Gog/Magog - end of Islam.

    When is the last time you heard any thing about the Communist threat? Back when I was a teenager, that was the big reality. Everyone will figuring out how the Antichrist could come out of Russia. But you see what happened - Communism basically disappeared. The same is going to happen to Islam.

    If you buy Joel Richardson's books. No-one is aaying the controvery is between Issac and Rome. btw, do you know that the Jews associate Rome with Edom? Again, I done subscribe to thoughts of the reformers regarding the Pope being the Antichrist, nor the false prophet.

    okay, I am going to have to put it in big letters.....

    I DON'T HOLD THE REFORMERS VIEW. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE POPE, NOR OFFICE OF POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST, NOR THE FALSE PROPHET.


    ... the Pope cannot become the Antichrist because the Pope is not a Jew, descended from King Daivd, nor is his religion Judaism.

    Anti means instead of and/or against. That's the definition. (the) Christ means the King of Israel.... right out of the bible. As Jesus was on the cross....

    Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

    The "Anti" - instead of and against Jesus being the rightful king of Israel - "Christ" is someone coming who the Jews will embrace for a short time as their king.

    There is nothing in the old testament identifying anyone specifically as the Antichrist. The coming of the Antichrist is from the New Testament alone, and a person has to go back to the old testament to see how that corresponds.

    But from the old testament alone, Tanach to the Jews, there is no way to envision the Antichrist, and any Jew (Judaism) will tell you that the term is irrelevant to Judaism.

    The term Antichrist is not found in Revelation, because the person is not committing the actions in Revelation as the Antichrist, but afterward as the beast.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  6. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    You are looking in the wrong place D

    Alexander never ruled the Middle East

    He conquered and then died .... neither did Athens rule and was on the wane

    The Seleucid kings were the next rulers in the northern Middle East and the Ptolemaics ruled Egypt

    These indigenous populations listed were not and will not be western Greeks [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38]

    And the same will be the little horn's confederated Middle Eastern kingdom at the time of the end

    Again, the age old controversy that will be played out and is now setting up is the one between Issac and Ishmael still unsettled [this is recorded in your Bible] .... there is no controversy between Issac and the Greeks in scripture

    And Greece is a degenerated drag on both the European and world economic stage never to recover ... there is just nothing that suggests a rising of Satan's beast in the human little horn from Greece .... and neither do the prophetic scriptures tell this
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  7. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

    +293
    Christian
    « Breaking News »
    Large-scale Iraqi Shiite forces stand ready to retake Tikrit
    DEBKAfile February 23, 2015, 6:33 PM (IDT)

    Western military sources reported Monday that large numbers of Iraqi Shiite militiamen are gathering in Samarra ready to advance on Tikrit 64 km to the north and retake it from ISIS occupation. They report that Iran’s Al Qods Brigades chief Gen. Qassem Soleimani is in Samarra, ready to lead the offensive, in the hope of success after several failed bids to recover the town.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The little horn waxes strong from the territory of one of the former four breakup kingdoms of Alexander's Greek empire.

    Of those four breakup kingdoms, the one that is north and west of Israel, is that once held by Cassandra. Of course that kingdom is long, long gone. It is not about the kingdom itself, but the territory - which is Greece. It is simply giving the location that he will be going to Israel, from.

    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    There are no Selecuid's nor Ptolemy's for the end times. Those are family's. The prophecies in Daniel 11, regarding them, were fulfilled before Jesus's time. The end times in Daniel 11, begins in Daniel 11:36.
    The little horn doesn't come from the direction of North and East of Israel. He comes from a direction North and West of Israel.

    I am NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THE GREEKS. The conflict is that Satan wants to be over God.

    God is going to judge Islam in Gog/Magog. Immediately following Gog/Magog the end of Islam, the Antichrist coming out of Europe will begin the 7 years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  9. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    "It is not about the kingdom itself, but the territory"

    "There are no Selecuid's nor Ptolemy's for the end times"


    I see a contradiction with your two statements above ... about territory, and then not about territory

    The prophetic visions are all about territory and the focus is on the Middle East and the indigenous populations contained therein .... not western extents

    You will just have to go your way D .... time will tell if you are right, or wrong

    And I don't buy Bill Salus and his "two war" .... wipe out the Muslim Middle East rant either

    He is making it up .... that Israel will rid the Middle East of Muslims, gain their expanded promised territory to the Euphrates, and then be attacked by your Greek little horn [His Euro-centric "antichrist"]

    The intransigent Muslims will be destroyed at Armageddon when lead by the little horn Muslim caliph to overrun Israel .... and it is just after after that Israel will gain the promise [Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 14], not before .... it is the Lord Himself who will break the Muslim transgressors and then restore the kingdom to Israel [His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth]

    And there will be no European Greek "little horn" that comes to break His kingdom after He has finished off the Muslims at Armageddon

    Salus is trying to protect his own reformation interpretation of the prophetic scriptures something like the way you are

    So he makes up a pre-70th week war to get rid of the Muslims in the Middle east and then adds on his idea of a Euro-centric based "antichrist" that will support his view

    His view is not in scripture and not within the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets .... speculating things into the scope that are not there is a bad idea
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  10. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    What scripture or scriptures tell you the antichrist "has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism"?
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You are taking my commentary on Daniel 8 and misapplying it to Daniel 11.

    Daniel 8:8-9 identify's the location from where the little horn as he prepares for war will come to Israel. Those two verses do not identify his kingdom.

    Daniel 11:4-32 the kings of the south and north are the wars between the Ptolomeys and the Seleucids. Those are historic, over and done with. There is no Ptolomeys and Seleucids for the end times.

    Beginning with Daniel 11:36 in the ends times, the kings of the north, south, east, west are leaders of global powers.

    Zechariah 14 is about all nations, not just nations of the Middle East.

    And Revelation 16:
    13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
     
  12. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    I don't agree with you D .... so it would be better not to argue over and over and over on a public media forum

    People get confused

    So we will not continue on this subject
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You can leave if you want. But I choose to stay and post.
     
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I've been waiting for all the futurists to offer up a cohesive "position" here on CF since I joined in 2002.

    I've discovered however that time is no object.
    I'm therefore convinced that eventually there will be a cohesive position finally adopted by all of today's futurists:

    It's called preterism.

    :)
     
  15. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    Only God himself would get me to switch to that view, and I admit it most likely would not G while I'm in this current body. Preterism does not add up to what scripture plainly says without conflicting itself or having to do away with "plain" writings. Though while "futurists" have issues themselves (so in no way do I think their 100% correct), their eschatology as a "whole" appear to fit better with today's society issues and events than preterism ever could and has.
     
  16. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    "I've been waiting for all the futurists to offer up a cohesive "position"


    Don't hold your breath

    All of the Lord's revealings will shake out in living color .... no doubt

    .... and He needs no one to prove Him out

    In the mean time the mission of the Christian witness is to draw people to His seeking so that they might gain eternal life .... there is no other purpose

    Argument and banter draws no one who looks on .... it turn them away

    The hardest sale to make in the world today is the gospel of Jesus Christ .... and those engaged do not get many orders

    And that is just the way it goes

    The way in which the preacher and or teacher makes the sales presentation is the difference between success, or failure

    The issue is a matter of life .... or death

    Do you spend your time and focus upon your set mission with your potential customers in mind?

    Or do you spend it arguing and bickering with your competition?

    Are you failing, or succeeding in the privilege that the Lord has given you?

    Time will tell

    There is a drama taking place in this world of confusion and decadence today which appears to be a parallel blueprint of the prophetic scriptures revealing the end of this present age .... and few of professing Christianity are looking

    The rest of the 8 billion on the earth have no idea what is going on

    Is that OK with you?

    If so then what is your purpose as a follower of the Lord and how are carrying out your mission?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    A little background. God was the king of Israel until Israel wanted a man-king like the other nations instead. It was a big time sin.

    1samuel10:

    18 And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you:
    19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes, and by your thousands.

    1Samuel 12:12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the Lord your God was your king.

    God is the rightful king of Israel and what made them a called and chosen people unlike the other nations. But they rejected God as their king, so God gave them Saul. After Saul sinned, God took the kingdom from him, and gave it to David, a man after God's own heart - as a forerunner to the messiah who would be God's plan to redeem the world.

    The Lord of heaven entered this world as Jesus, the living temple of God, to take his place as the king of Israel - and to keep God's promise to David that he would always have a descendant on the throne of Israel.

    Keep in mind that Jesus the true and rightful messiah, God as King of Israel, was also a Jew - because of that promise to David. The Antichrist thus has to be a Jew as well, to be perceived as the person in the Jews eyes as fulfilling that promise God made to David.

    John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name [as their king], and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive [as their king].

    1. In John 5:43, Jesus said that the Jews would embrace another coming in his own name - inferring that they would embrace someone else as their king, in terms of "the" promised messiah. Technically, messiah is a transliterated word for anointed - in biblical terms of the old testament, anointeds referred to the kings and priests. "The" messiah though is reference to one specific King of Israel to lead them and the world into the time of redemption, peace and harmony in the world, based upon Isaiah 11.

    2. The early Christians were already aware of the "someone else than Jesus" person which was the term Antichrist - as John said in 1John2:18 that they had already heard that Antichrist shall come. Specifically, who first used the term is not known.

    In 1John2:18, "as ye have heard" implies that they already were aware that antichrist was coming, but it doesn't say how they had become aware that antichrist was coming. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    3. Back in Deuteronomy 17:15 , God knowing that Israel would eventually reject him as king, told them never to have a king over them that wasn't one of themselves - that is an Israelite. So any of their kings has to be of the 12 tribes.

    4. Regarding "the" messiah, he has to be descended from David. And thus is often referred to as the Son of David. The actual text says from Jesse, David's father, in Isaiah 11. The Jews (Judaism) also believe that Isaiah 11 is talking about the messiah. So in order to appear to them to be the messiah, the person who becomes the Antichrist, King of Israel, must be a Jew.

    5. The Jews are not going to embrace anyone as their messiah - King of Israel - unless his religion is Judaism because the messiah to them, is supposed to them teach how to rightfully observe the Torah, guide for living. Being observant to Torah is the essence of Judaism. Unfortunately, Kabballah is also part of Judaism, and that is how the person is going to get his power, not his own.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  18. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    « Breaking News »
    ISIS abducts 90 Assyrian Christians, including children
    DEBKAfile February 24, 2015, 12:12 PM (IDT)

    ISIS raids of villages inhabited by the ancient Assyrian Christian community took place Monday outside the northeastern Syrian town of Tel Hmar in Hasaka province, a region divided between Islamic State and Kurdish control. Some 90 civilians are believed to have been taken captive.

    The raids followed heavy fighting in the area, close to the Turkish and Iraqi border, between Kurdish forces and the terrorists. Syria's SANA state news agency said ISIS overran seven villages on Monday, forcing hundreds to flee.
     
  19. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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