Islamic God Allah - must we believe it is the same as the God of Christianity?

[Blackknight]

While they claim to worship the same God the characteristics of their God are completely different.

 

[MKJ]

I found this article written by a priest in the ROCOR that discusses if Islam and Judaism worship the same God as us. The Monotheistic Religions; Do We Have the Same God That Non-Christians Have?

He seems to be arguing, among other things, that the Jews worshiped a Trinitarian God. It seems to me that it would be pretty hard to convincingly maintain that they did so knowingly, at least the bulk of the Jews - if they had, the whole Christian thing might have been rather less shocking to them. But if they could, without entirely realizing it, worship a Triniarian God, then it is not necessarily impossible that someone else, like modern Jews or Muslims or even Unitarians, could as well.

 

[jckstraw72]

neither the Jews nor the Muslims worship the same God as us. Only we worship a Triune God, with the 2nd Person becoming Incarnate, Crucified and Resurrected. The others have nothing even remotely like this.

 

[mmksparbud]

How can we be worshiping the same God? We believe as the Bible teaches--that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shinneth in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1 1-5.
We worship Jesus as the creator of all things--to Islam, He was just a prophet. We view Jesus as equal with God, they do not. It's hard for us to differentiate the difference between Christ, the Holy spirit and God. They are one, yet seperate--to them, this is incomprhensible--"and the darkness comprehended it not." It's apples and oranges, even if they are both fruits.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

where is this from?

Could you flesh out your question a bit ?

 

[wayseer]

Some really thoughtful posts here.

The thing that makes Christianity different to every other religion or Faith, including Judaism and Islam, is that of the incarnation - that God dared to become human. This is blasphemy according to other religions.

There are instances of gods coming down to earth, who intervene in the affairs humanity, but none dare become truly human. This aspect is unique to Christianity and cause the Faith no little problem.

 

[buzuxi02]

I would like to pose the question, 'do we believe in the same God?, to a muslim. The thing with Islam is that there is a fundamental rejection of any notion that God can be a Father or Son or Holy Spirit. To claim that God begets in Islam is blasphemy, God can never be a Father nor a Son, and the Holy Spirit is simply an adjective for the archangel Gabriel.

In Orthodoxy we teach that Christ is the only God we know, the same God the OT prophets preached. It is Christ who reveals His Father to us and it is Christ who sends us the Holy Spirit.
The OT prophets and jews worshipped the pre-incarnate Christ, the Holy Trinity was not yet revealed. But shadows were offered as in Genesis 18.1-3, Isaiah 6.3.9, Ps 33.6

 

[ebia]

Some really thoughtful posts here.

The thing that makes Christianity different to every other religion or Faith, including Judaism and Islam, is that of the incarnation - that God dared to become human. This is blasphemy according to other religions.

There are instances of gods coming down to earth, who intervene in the affairs humanity, but none dare become truly human. This aspect is unique to Christianity and cause the Faith no little problem.

It seems to cause not a little problem for a lot of Christians, who never really seem to accept Jesus as fully human.

 

[wayseer]

It seems to cause not a little problem for a lot of Christians, who never really seem to accept Jesus as fully human.

Indeed - and it cause all sorts of problems for the Patristic Fathers as they nutted out the problem. It was only when I undertook a subject of the Patristic Fathers conducted by an Orthodox priest and theologian that I began to understand the issues involved. The Western church unfortunately is pretty sketchy on these matters.

 

[ArmyMatt]

neither the Jews nor the Muslims worship the same God as us. Only we worship a Triune God, with the 2nd Person becoming Incarnate, Crucified and Resurrected. The others have nothing even remotely like this.

yep, and all three faiths claim God to be both true and unchanging.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I find it interesting that St. John of Damascus thought that Islam was a Christian heresy. He felt that Muhammad was inspired by Arian Christians who had a warped perception of Christ and salvation in general. The Arians had a mistaken approach to Christianity that funneled into Muhammad's mindset in his travels. That was St. John Damascene's view. So from that angle, wouldn't that mean that Muslims worship the same god, only with serious defects in their understanding, just as the Jews continue to do? Just something that struck me.....

The problem with Joseph Hazen's "Harry" analogies is that we would have to conclude that Jews do NOT worship the same God as we Christians for the sake of the fact that Jews have as much post-resurrection knowledge and information available to them as Muslims do. Just because Jews knew God before Christians doesn't really mean much. They still reject the Trinitarian realities we all embrace and adore. They believe the Messiah has not yet come and they have all sorts of misperceptions about that. Likewise, so do the Muslims. In the end, both have innacurate understandings of God Almighty mixed with some truths. Few Christians would conclude that in 2012 Jews worship a different God. They have the post-resurrection knowledge. Muslims have it as well. Why do Jews worship the same God and Muslims do not?

As Meghan (MKJ) said, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have less accurate views of God than Muslims.

I just wonder where St. John of Damascus fits into all this with his view of Islam being a Christian heresy?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So from that angle, wouldn't that mean that Muslims worship the same god, only with serious defects in their understanding, just as the Jews continue to do? Just something that struck me.....

if you reject the Son, you reject the Father who sent Him

 

[gracefullamb]

Huh...Muslims for Christ, well that is a new one for me. I am not buying it, I don't care how many videos or dissertations EasyG posts I don't buy it is possible to remain a believing and practicing Muslim while simultaneously believing Christ is the Son of God and the Savior. That is just more racky to me than that lot from some Scandinavian country who felt the Greek ruins belong to them because they worship the Greek gods.

 

[Lady Bug]

The only way that it would be the same God is if God decided that He was not finished with revelation after Jesus ascended into Heaven and told Angel Gabriel that He had more work to do, and therefore the same God finished revelation through Muhammad.

Did the God of the Bible do this? If they are the same God, then yes He did.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

“He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

These are just a few paragraphs of scripture which should make it abundantly clear that Islam does not worship the same God as we Christian's do.

 

[Dorothea]

I agree with Matt and jck.

 

[rusmeister]

I find it interesting that St. John of Damascus thought that Islam was a Christian heresy. He felt that Muhammad was inspired by Arian Christians who had a warped perception of Christ and salvation in general. The Arians had a mistaken approach to Christianity that funneled into Muhammad's mindset in his travels. That was St. John Damascene's view. So from that angle, wouldn't that mean that Muslims worship the same god, only with serious defects in their understanding, just as the Jews continue to do? Just something that struck me.....

The problem with Joseph Hazen's "Harry" analogies is that we would have to conclude that Jews do NOT worship the same God as we Christians for the sake of the fact that Jews have as much post-resurrection knowledge and information available to them as Muslims do. Just because Jews knew God before Christians doesn't really mean much. They still reject the Trinitarian realities we all embrace and adore. They believe the Messiah has not yet come and they have all sorts of misperceptions about that. Likewise, so do the Muslims. In the end, both have innacurate understandings of God Almighty mixed with some truths. Few Christians would conclude that in 2012 Jews worship a different God. They have the post-resurrection knowledge. Muslims have it as well. Why do Jews worship the same God and Muslims do not?

As Meghan (MKJ) said, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have less accurate views of God than Muslims.

I just wonder where St. John of Damascus fits into all this with his view of Islam being a Christian heresy?

St John was right. (I got the idea from someone you don't like me mentioning)

The trouble with the Arians was that they really were creating a different God, a non-Trinitarian religion. That heresy nearly tore the Church apart in the first centuries.

Using the language "the same God" is part of the general problem here. Any understanding if God that falls outside of the Nicene Creed, the Symbol of faith, is already not "the same God". That's why Mormons can't (legitimately) be called Christians, though they pronounce the name of Jesus.

Perhaps its an aside, but I see Jews openly defending things condemned in
ancient Judaism (such as on sexual morality) so I think some of them decidedly worship a God, not only different from ours, but different from that of their own ancestors. So I don't see a problem with Joseph's analogy.

 

[gracefullamb]

Regardless of whether people agree or not, people need to simply talk to those Muslims who already note that Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of Mankind--and point squarely to where the Quran says so plainly. Doing otherwise is akin to slander of what others hold to---and not caring is akin to willfully choosing to ignore.

But again, people will always do as you do--reagrdless of any factual info put up

You know nothing whatsoever about me or my history, so don't presume to make such arrogant assumptions, I know that is hard one for you but try it for once. I do in fact know what Islam teaches and what the Quran states. I am baffled that you claim to though or that your read my post considering you state I am wrong and that I have slandered them. I stated they don't teach Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that is in fact true, Islam doesn't teach this. The Quran does make it quite clear there is NO TRINITY! The Quran makes it clear ALLAH has NO SON! If one does indeed believe and practice their Muslim faith they cannot believe that Jesus is the Son of God or that their is a Trinity. Did you miss that part of my post when you decided to accuse me of slander or just read whatever you thought I was saying along with your presumptions of what I do know based on my own studies and history?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Jews don't believe in the Trinity either yet I can't imagine many of us claiming they worship a wholly different god? And St. John of Damascus, whom I pointed out earlier, thought Islam to be a Christian heresy.

I really happen to see Allah as a bastardized, muffed-up vision of God and possessing a false salvation history he thus means nothing to me. But I do like to look at this from all angles. I happen to NOT like the Catholic Church's statements on Islam one bit. It's one of the many things that caused me to scratch my chin about them.

You know nothing whatsoever about me or my history, so don't presume to make such arrogant assumptions, I know that is hard one for you but try it for once. I do in fact know what Islam teaches and what the Quran states. I am baffled that you claim to though or that your read my post considering you state I am wrong and that I have slandered them. I stated they don't teach Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that is in fact true, Islam doesn't teach this. The Quran does make it quite clear there is NO TRINITY! The Quran makes it clear ALLAH has NO SON! If one does indeed believe and practice their Muslim faith they cannot believe that Jesus is the Son of God or that their is a Trinity. Did you miss that part of my post when you decided to accuse me of slander or just read whatever you thought I was saying along with your presumptions of what I do know based on my own studies and history?

 

[Lady Bug]

The only way that it would be the same God is if God decided that He was not finished with revelation after Jesus ascended into Heaven and told Angel Gabriel that He had more work to do, and therefore the same God finished revelation through Muhammad.

Did the God of the Bible do this? If they are the same God, then yes He did.

doesn't this make sense to anyone but me?

my dad comes from a Muslim background and Islam has brought me nothing but pain. it's no wonder that this issue bothers me.