Islamic God Allah - must we believe it is the same as the God of Christianity?

[gzt]

I completely agree with Macarius about how and where the Muslims are mistaken. The triune God of Christianity is the one true God and there is a great gulf between Christianity and other religions for the reasons Macarius states. But, still, St John of Damascus treats Islam as a Christian heresy. It's also kind of hard to be too hard on Judaism for obvious reasons, though there is definitely something to be said for the discontinuity between Second Temple Judaism and Rabbinic Judaism. It seems to me there are at least three possible responses:
1. Islam worships a false god. The Christian God is not who the Muslims call upon when they call upon Allah.
2. Islam worships the true God, but falsely. The Christian God is the one who the Muslims call upon when they call upon Allah, but they have false beliefs about God.
3. The Christian God and the Islamic God are the same, somehow, despite the vast differences in theology, and both are right in their own way.

#3 is trivially wrong according to Orthodoxy. My own position is #2, which is why I think the question is a bit of a red herring - the words are quite loaded with assumptions.

 

[rusmeister]

Are labels really important? "I am that I am" is how Yahweh referred to Himself to Moses. God is omnipresent and can be accessed by anyone who sincerely seeks Him through prayer and meditation. When I pray, I DON't begin with: Dear Christian God, etc, etc. God is also omniscient and knows our hearts.

It is not a question of mere labels but of what the theology implies and results in. Whether God is One, or One and Three, has a total impact on theology.

Mac and gzt said good things. I found GK Chesterton very helpful. It's better to read his works yourself, but here are a couple of short oferings:

“Now a man preaching what he thinks is a platitude is far more intolerant than a man preaching what he admits is a paradox. It was exactly because it seemed self-evident, to Moslems as to Bolshevists, that their simple creed was suited to everybody, that they wished in that particular sweeping fashion to impose it on everybody. It was because Islam was broad that Moslems were narrow. And because it was not a hard religion it was a heavy rule. Because it was without a self-correcting complexity, it allowed of those simple and masculine but mostly rather dangerous appetites that show themselves in a chieftain or a lord. As it had the simplest sort of religion, monotheism, so it had the simplest sort of government, monarchy. There was exactly the same direct spirit in its despotism as in its deism. The Code, the Common Law, the give and take of charters and chivalric vows, did not grow in that golden desert. The great sun was in the sky and the great Saladin was in his tent, and he must be obeyed unless he were assassinated. Those who complain of our creeds as elaborate often forget that the elaborate Western creeds have produced the elaborate Western constitutions; and that they are elaborate because they are emancipated.” – The Fall of Chivalry, The New Jerusalem

“…but out of the desert, from the dry places and the dreadful suns, come the cruel children of the lonely God; the real Unitarians who with scimitar in hand have laid waste the world. For it is not well for God to be alone.” – The Romance of Orthodoxy, Orthodoxy

and a heavier one, that requires a little bit of research to find out what he is talking about...

“There is in Islam a paradox which is perhaps a permanent menace. The great creed born in the desert creates a kind of ecstasy out of the very emptiness of its own land, and even, one may say, out of the emptiness of its own theology. It affirms, with no little sublimity, something that is not merely the singleness but rather the solitude of God. There is the same extreme simplification in the solitary figure of the Prophet; and yet this isolation perpetually reacts into its own opposite. A void is made in the heart of Islam which has to be filled up again and again by a mere repetition of the revolution that founded it. There are no sacraments; the only thing that can happen is a sort of apocalypse, as unique as the end of the world; so the apocalypse can only be repeated and the world end again and again. There are no priests; and yet this equality can only breed a multitude of lawless prophets almost as numerous as priests. The very dogma that there is only one Mahomet produces an endless procession of Mahomets. Of these the mightiest in modern times were the man whose name was Ahmed, and whose more famous title was the Mahdi; and his more ferocious successor Abdullahi, who was generally known as the Khalifa. These great fanatics, or great creators of fanaticism, succeeded in making a militarism almost as famous and formidable as that of the Turkish Empire on whose frontiers it hovered, and in spreading a reign of terror such as can seldom be organised except by civilisation…” – Lord Kitchener

 

[inconsequential]

Is the Muslim god triune? No

Is the Christian God triune? Yes

No<>Yes

 

[InnerPhyre]

Satan appeared to Muhammad under the guise of an Angel of Light and taught him to follow a religion of the devil's personal design. They do not worship the same God that we do. Our God is Trinity, loving, self-sacrificing, and merciful. The Muslim god views humanity as pets, not as children.

Within Islam, the only thing that will send you to hell forever is Shirk, or associating partners with Allah. Belief in the Trinity qualifies as Shirk, which means that you can rape and murder 500 people and will go to hell for a very long time and eventually be released, while a pious Christian monk will go to hell for all eternity for believing in the Trinity.

Christ's saving death and resurrection is the source of our entire salvation, and the Qur'an says that the event never occurred. They say that Allah took Jesus straight to heaven so that He wouldn't have to die.

How can this be viewed from a Christian perspective, as anything other than a clear and obvious attempt to counteract all the good that Christ did on Earth? The devil is sly and does not say "There is no Jesus." He flatters Jesus by calling Him the holiest prophet except for Muhammad. Then he denies Christ's Divinity, His place in the Trinity, and His live-giving death and resurrection. Once you see it, it is obvious. The Catholics are 1000000% wrong in their Catechism.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I don't agree with this, I feel it contradicts scripture.

where is this from?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

perhaps this is a little off topic, but i think it might be tangential and it intrigues me. Would Orthodox Christians say that Jews worship the same God? Is this any different than Muslims, and if so, how? Don't want this to be a major sidetrack, just a sidenote.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

2. Islam worships the true God, but falsely. The Christian God is the one who the Muslims call upon when they call upon Allah, but they have false beliefs about God.

My own position is #2, which is why I think the question is a bit of a red herring - the words are quite loaded with assumptions.

But how much can we change the very nature of Who the True God is, and still claim to be the same God? If I have a friend named Harry, and you claim to have met and be friends with Harry, and while we're talking about Harry we discover:

1. My friend Harry (Harry1) was born in Louisiana, you don't know where your friend Harry (Harry2) was born, but you assert it most definitely wasn't Louisiana.
2. Harry1 lives with his father and brother. Harry2 lives alone.
3. Harry1 speaks many languages. Harry2 only speaks one.
4. Harry1 has lots of friends who he loves to introduce others to. Harry2 has other friends, but he prefers if you don't talk to them.

I mean, at some point we have to conclude we're talking about two different people. Even if we actually did meet the same guy, one of us knows so little about him, and asserts things so false about him, that it can be fairly said that that individual does not know Harry, is not friends with him, and hasn't even really met him.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

perhaps this is a little off topic, but i think it might be tangential and it intrigues me. Would Orthodox Christians say that Jews worship the same God? Is this any different than Muslims, and if so, how? Don't want this to be a major sidetrack, just a sidenote.

I would say yes, we worship the same God as the Jews. The difference is they knew Him before us, and so didn't know Him fully, whereas the Muslims met Him after the Incarnation, where He was fully revealed to us, and then rejected the original and changed Him further. To take my "Harry" example up there, Jews knew Harry before we did, but didn't know he lives with his father and brother. They still assert he lives alone, but their friendship with him isn't as close as it would be if they accepted this new information about him. Muslims met Harry after it was common knowledge that he lives with his relatives, but are still refusing to accept it.

It's one thing to doubt a new truth about something when you already knew it. To be introduced to something, then assert you know more about it than what was known by the experts who introduced you to it, is another.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I would say yes, we worship the same God as the Jews. The difference is they knew Him before us, and so didn't know Him fully, whereas the Muslims met Him after the Incarnation, where He was fully revealed to us, and then rejected the original and changed Him further. To take my "Harry" example up there, Jews knew Harry before we did, but didn't know he lives with his father and brother. They still assert he lives alone, but their friendship with him isn't as close as it would be if they accepted this new information about him. Muslims met Harry after it was common knowledge that he lives with his relatives, but are still refusing to accept it.

It's one thing to doubt a new truth about something when you already knew it. To be introduced to something, then assert you know more about it than what was known by the experts who introduced you to it, is another.

Well said!

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I would say yes, we worship the same God as the Jews. The difference is they knew Him before us, and so didn't know Him fully, whereas the Muslims met Him after the Incarnation, where He was fully revealed to us, and then rejected the original and changed Him further. To take my "Harry" example up there, Jews knew Harry before we did, but didn't know he lives with his father and brother. They still assert he lives alone, but their friendship with him isn't as close as it would be if they accepted this new information about him. Muslims met Harry after it was common knowledge that he lives with his relatives, but are still refusing to accept it.

It's one thing to doubt a new truth about something when you already knew it. To be introduced to something, then assert you know more about it than what was known by the experts who introduced you to it, is another.

well said! I will have to meet this "Harry" guy someday

 

[Joseph Hazen]

well said! I will have to meet this "Harry" guy someday

Hahaha, Harry is the name of my very good friend who introduced me to Orthodoxy. He, however, does live alone.

 

[Lady Bug]

I give Judaism (well the Judaism of Biblical times, not the Judaism that comes from the Talmud) a pass because even though it does not accept Jesus as Son and Savior, the Old Testament believes in the same God but it is simply an INCOMPLETE picture of God - the complete picture was a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies that were part of Judaism per the OT even though Jews don't believe Jesus is that fulfillment. Christianity is probably believed to be the fulfillment of Judaism so I don't see what's really that wrong with saying that J and C believe in the same God but the former just sees an incomplete picture of God.

since revelation ended with the death of the last apostle (as says tradition, I think), I don't see the obligation to acknowledge that the revelation, albeit false, is supposed to come from the same God.

would we say that about Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses? that they believe in the same God? Probably not. So why say that about Islam? JW and Mormons believe in some of the Bible too. don't they?

 

[InnerPhyre]

would we say that about Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses? that they believe in the same God? Probably not. So why say that about Islam?

I agree with this completely.

 

[MKJ]

I agree with this completely.

God in Mormonism is actually significantly more different than the God in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism though.

Interestingly, I asked this question here a year or so ago and the answer was mostly "we can't judge".

From my perspective, I think it is pretty hard to answer this question the way it is usually asked. What does it mean? Did Mahomet really talk to an angel that revealed God's nature to him? No. Are individual Muslims really directing their worship to God? I'm sure many are. Does Islam recognize some of God's absolutely unique characteristics? Yes. Does it deny others? Also yes. If both are true, what does it mean?

I would say that it is a bit like there is a guy who has a number of unique features that are essential to who he is. The Muslims recognize some of them, but deny others. Given that they recognize some, they can't actually be talking about someone else - there is no such person. We all know when they describe what they mean by God what they are talking about - we and they know it implicitly when we speak about their beliefs, or often experience, of God. On the other hand, they explicitly reject other essential features. Whether any individual Muslim does so "knowing" that they are is pretty impossible to for us to know.

I think it's most accurate to say they recognize the One God, and insofar as they direct worship to that, they worship him, though with incomplete knowledge. When they direct worship to things that are manmade additions, they are not. The former activity is probably good for the soul, the latter not. But always there is a real danger serious error, because they have it partly right - that is much more dangerous than someone who is, say, a sort of animist or something completely different. On the other hand, being close and having an explicit connection to God, they can also become drawn to the truth in a powerful way.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The usual Catholic argument, and I'm not saying I buy it, is that the Jewish God is the same as our God. The Jewish people reject the Trinity and Christ as saviour yet they would be considered by Christians to worship the same God. The Muslims are no different. They worship God yet not triune like the Jews. Salvation history is not the same for all three of us. That is the usual argument people make.

 

[ProScribe]

I think the differences are noted in their theology and what they (the Muslims) call Scripture <Quran> . . .

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm not sure my gripe is the notion itself that the are the same God (it is a little but that's not entirely the problem). My gripe is the requirement to believe that they are the same God. I think it should be left to personal opinion. If someone wants to believe it, fine but when it becomes required to believe it, that is when I have an issue.

 

[ArmyMatt]

no, it is not a reqirement to believe they are the same God. in fact, they are not the same God. whatever you profess, if you profess a non-Trinitarian and non-Incarnate God, you do not follow the God of the Christians. it does not matter what prophets or patriarchs you claim to follow.

 

[gzt]

The danger with that line of argument is that it reduces God to "one of the gods" like, say, Baal or Zeus and says that, hey, Zeus is different than Baal, so we're worshiping different gods. We're not talking about the gods, though, we're talking about the one God, a universal God of justice and love who created the universe. Those are properties that kind of uniquely identify a being, and you can be extremely mistaken about the rest of that being (which is why God is not the God of philosophers, but of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), but there is a sense in that, once you're pointing that way, you're not all wrong. See St Justin and the "spermatikos logos" and St Paul at the altar of an "unknown god".

To me, saying they worship a different god is like saying they're Baal-worshipers rather than monotheists.

 

[gracefullamb]

I found this article written by a priest in the ROCOR that discusses if Islam and Judaism worship the same God as us. The Monotheistic Religions; Do We Have the Same God That Non-Christians Have?