Hello again.
Sorry for the delayed reply.
You write: ‘God created earth and man perfect. But when Adam and Eve disobeyed God’s commands, He had to punish them.’
Er..……no…..He did not have to punish them.
It is the opinion of the Muslims that where the Bible and the Qur’an agree; there is no problem. That where the Bible contradicts the Qur’an; then the Qur’an takes precedence. That where there is neither agreement nor disagreement; then matters are open for discussion; and Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) knows best!
The Bible and the Qur’an agree that the Exalted created both Adam and Eve; but they differ as to what happened next.
In Genesis (as you know), Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) prohibits both Adam and Eve from eating the fruits of the forbidden tree. However, the snake seduces Eve, and persuades her to eat from it: 'Now, the snake was the most subtle of all the wild animals that Yahweh God had made. It asked the woman: “Did God really say you were not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?” The woman answered the snake: “We may eat the fruit of the trees in the garden. But of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You must not eat it, nor touch it, under pain of death.’” Then the snake said to the woman: “No! You will not die! God knows in fact that the day you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good from evil.”. The woman saw that the tree was good to eat and pleasing to the eye, and that it was enticing for the wisdom that it could give. So she took some of its fruit and ate it.’ (Genesis; 3: 1-6).
We are told that Eve persuaded Adam to eat with her; and that, when rebuked for his actions, Adam placed all the blame on her: ‘(God asked): “Have you been eating from the tree I forbade you to eat?” The man replied: “It was the woman you put with me; she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”’ (Verses 11-12).
Consequently, the Exalted said to Eve: ‘I shall give you intense pain in childbearing, you will give birth to your children in pain.’ (Verse 16).
The Qur’an presents a different account: ‘But you, Adam, and your wife live in the Garden. Both of you eat whatever you like, but do not go near this tree or you will become wrongdoers. Satan whispered to them so as to expose their nakedness, which had been hidden from them. He said: “Your Lord only forbade you this tree to prevent you becoming angels or immortals,” and he swore to them: “I am giving you sincere advice” - he lured them with lies. Their nakedness became exposed to them when they had eaten from the tree: they began to put together leaves from the Garden to cover themselves. Their Lord called to them: “Did I not forbid you to approach that tree? Did I not warn you that Satan was your sworn enemy?” (Al-A‘raf: 19-23).
You will see that the Qur’an places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake. Nowhere in the Qur’an do we find even the slightest suggestion that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree; or even that she had eaten before him. In the Qur’an, Eve is not a temptress; not a seducer; and not a deceiver. Moreover, she is not told that she (and by implication, all women after her) would suffer intense pain in childbearing as a direct result of her actions.
Adam and Eve committed a sin. That much is clear. It was not Adam alone. When challenged, they replied: ‘Our Lord, we have wronged our souls: if You do not forgive us and have mercy, we shall be lost.’ (Al-A‘raf: 23).
Islam teaches that to sin is merely a part of life. However, no act is sinful unless the person knows it to be wrong, and has wilful intent. But the knowledge of good and evil did not come to Adam (or to Eve) until after the event. Only then did he realise his mistake. He was like a child who hears an obscene word for the very first time and - in all innocence - repeats it to his parents (usually in full voice, and in front of the neighbours). What parent would punish his child for such innocent behaviour - still less punish, many years later, his grandchildren for the origin ‘sin’ of their dad?
Muslims do not believe that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) behaved in this way.
The Dominican theologian (St) Thomas Aquinas writes: ‘It was not necessary that God should become incarnate for the restoration of human nature. For God with His omnipotent power could have restored human nature in many other ways.’ (Summa Theologica: Part Three; Question 1, Article3).
Muslims believe that Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) did indeed choose a different way of dealing with Adam – the way of forgiveness: ‘Then Adam received some words from his Lord and He accepted his repentance: He is the Ever Relenting, the Most Merciful.’ (Al-Baqara: 37).
Muslims do not accept that mankind suffers the consequences of Adam’s sin; and the reason they do not is that this sin was wiped out by a simple act of Mercy; one that ruled out any need for universal redemption.
Islam places great emphasis on the nature of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla)’s forgiveness - not just for Adam and Eve - but for each of us. According to Islamic theology, all shall stand before Him on the Day of Judgment. Each will be given a record of their lives. Those who receive this record in their right hand will be admitted to Paradise; and those who receive it in their left will not.
According to tradition, our good deeds are recorded straight away; whereas our bad are not recorded until several hours have passed, to allow for repentance. A recorded sin can be erased by sincere and genuine repentance (tawbah). Not only does tawbah wipe out an evil deed, it transforms that deed into a good one: ‘Those who repent, believe, and do good deeds, Allāh will change the evil deeds of such people into good ones. He is most forgiving, most merciful’ (Al-Furqan: 70).
Every day of their lives - many times a day - Muslims speak the words: ‘The Lord of Mercy’; ‘The Giver of Mercy’; ‘The Compassionate’; ‘The Merciful’. These are the Beloved’s Names. We did not give them to Him, He chose them for Himself. Of all His Names, these are His favorite. That is why we are asked to speak them so often - so that we do not forget Who it is that loves us; Who it is that binds us to Himself with ties of tenderness, mercy and forgiveness.
You write: ‘A judge who pardons law-breakers isn’t a righteous judge……Likewise, overlooking sin would make the holy God unjust.’
Forgiveness is the act of pardoning someone for a mistake or wrongdoing. To pardon someone is to release them from the obligation to provide restitution; or from the need to suffer any form of punishment.
When someone is forgiven their debt is wiped out entirely.
Forgiveness was, and is, central to the Exalted’s very nature. This can be seen from the fact that He is, almost always, the subject of the various ‘forgiveness’ verbs contained in the Tanakh; the most frequent of which is ‘Salach’; meaning ‘to pardon’.
The Tanakh tells us that the Exalted pardons absolutely: ‘Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.’ (Micah 7:18-19); and again: ‘I, I am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins.’ (Isaiah 43:25); and yet again: ‘Yahweh is tenderness and pity, slow to anger and rich in faithful love; His indignation does not last for ever, nor His resentment remain for all time; He does not treat us as our sins deserve, nor repay us as befits our offences. As the height of Heaven above earth, so strong is His faithful love for those who fear Him. As the distance of east from west, so far from us does He put our faults. As tenderly as a father treats his children, so Yahweh treats those who fear Him; He knows of what we are made, He remembers that we are dust.’ (Psalm 103: 8-14).
Christians and Muslims agree that the love, mercy and compassion of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) are the greatest of things, without which none of us could stand, not even for the briefest of moments. A person could spend an eternity in contemplation of this truth and not touch the depth and breadth of it.
You write: ‘God the Son sacrificed Himself to God the Father and thereby fulfilled all the requirements of the Law.’
We can search ‘til the cows come home, but nowhere in the Tanakh will we find a single Law that requires of the Exalted that He sacrifice Himself to Himself.
As you know, Islam rejects the notion that Yeshua was (is) wholly God and wholly man. It also rejects the notion that he was crucified. However, for the sake of discussion, let’s agree that both notions are correct.
We are agreed (I hope) that it is not possible for God to die. The notion that an omnipotent and eternal Second Person of the Trinity (‘God the Son’) could sacrifice himself to the First Person (‘God the Father’) is facepalm theology.
It cannot have been the Exalted who died upon the cross. The one who died was Yeshua the man. This would make him a human sacrifice.
In my previous post I ask: ‘And where in the Bible does it state that God requires a human sacrifice in order to forgive sin?’
The honest answer is: ‘Nowhere’.
Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Yahweh that it did not even enter His mind to demand it from His creation (see Jeremiah 19: 4-6; Psalm 106:37-38; and Ezekiel 16:20).
Aware of this (perhaps) you write: ‘God didn’t sacrifice Jesus. Rather, Jesus, as God incarnate, sacrificed Himself. No one forced Him. He laid down His life willingly….’
Here’s what three of the ‘evangelists’ have to say:
‘They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” Once more he went away and prayed the same thing…. Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!” (Mark 14: 32-42).
‘Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”……He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.” So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”’ (Matt 26: 36-46).
‘Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.’ (Luke 22:39-44).
A number of things are clear from these verses:
First: Yeshua is behaving exactly as one would expect a scared human to behave. Most certainly, he did not want to die by crucifixion (‘Take this cup from me’). Please take special note of Luke’s: ‘An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.’ Why would a mere angel be needed to strengthen one who is both ‘God and man’? Surely the divine nature of Yeshua would have been more than enough? The fact than Luke mentions an angel is an indication (one might suppose) that he (Luke) did not regard Yeshua as divine; but rather as a man in need of God’s help.
Second: Yeshua submitted himself to the will of God (‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’…… ‘Yet not what I will, but what you will’).
Third: Yeshua did not surrender voluntarily to the authorities, but was betrayed (‘Here comes my betrayer!’).
Yeshua did not sacrifice himself (not according to these verses); rather he surrendered to the Will of One who wanted him sacrificed (according to these verses). This brings us back to the question: ‘Where in the Bible does it state that God requires a human sacrifice – so horrible a concept to Him that it did not even enter His mind to demand it from His creation – in order to forgive sin?’
And here is the question that took me away from Christianity after more than sixty years of practise: ‘If the Exalted could say to mankind (through Adam): ‘You have sinned, depart from Me’ why could He not have said – quite simply – ‘You are forgiven, return to Me.’ What need of Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām), other than as a prophet?
I found my answer in the Qur’an.
Have a very merry Christmas, and the best of New Years.
PS: I’m not ignoring the other comments you’ve made; it’s just that time is short at the moment. In šāʾ Allāh, I shall return to them very soon. Meantime, perhaps you can explain how it is possible for Yeshua to be both ‘wholly God’ and ‘wholly man’ at one and the same time?
