Islam Islam Influence

[Far Side Of the Moon]

You're a Christian and you think that Christians should "respect" Islam? Did Elijah respect the cult of Ba'al? Did Paul respect the cult of Artemis(Gk)/Diana(Roman)?

What respect did Christ have for the samaritan religion or the Canaanite religion? None whatsoever. They were all deemed people who were deceived.

I am very concerned about people claiming to respect Islam. It says to me that they are masquerading as Christians.

And another thing, you aren't paul or Elijah... To do the things they did you need to be anointed from God for such a task... Are you? If you were...I'd think you'd spend less time on a forum stirring up strife.

Just because biblical figures did this and that doesn't mean you always can... They were anointed for their task...are you?

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Loving your enemy does not mean opening the gates to their forces either. There can be responsible outreach to Muslim nations that doesn't include putting innocent people in harms' way at home.

This is a dangerous, heretical faith which advocates murder, horrid treatment of women and destruction of dissenting opinion/beliefs. While they may be made in the image of God they've used their free will to deny His son and to promote heresy. Worthy of respect? Perhaps. Worthy of acceptance? No.

Jesus died because he loved the world he submitted and humbled himself to death... He opened the gate to his enemies...us ...to give us the gift of salvation...and guess what? He was beaten and nailed to the cross.

Its clear you have something towards Muslims. They, like everyone, aren't all bad. There are whole families that need help and they can't be turned away..

Jesus wouldn't turn them away...and I know he wouldn't since he died for everyone before they even acknowledged him, including you...you were an enemy of God..and he opened his gate to you..

Look in the mirror before pointing fingers

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

Jesus died because he loved the world he submitted and humbled himself to death... He opened the gate to his enemies...us ...to give us the gift of salvation...and guess what? He was beaten and nailed to the cross.

Its clear you have something towards Muslims. They, like everyone, aren't all bad. There are whole families that need help and they can't be turned away..

Jesus wouldn't turn them away...and I know he wouldn't since he died for everyone before they even acknowledged him, including you...you were an enemy of God..and he opened his gate to you..

Look in the mirror before pointing fingers

My faith as a Christian does not compel me to put other people at risk. That is not charity, it is self-destruction. Go to France, Germany, Belgium or Sweden and tell me the benefits of open borders for Christians. No one in those countries wanted to live in Syria. Yet their politicians brought Syria to them.

You're right about looking in the mirror though. It's advice all should take. We have plenty of sick, tired and hungry people of our own we need to take care of before we start virtue signaling about our "neighbors" (funny how that term has taken a globalist slant, isn't it?) a world away.

Again, you should really read the Quran.

 

[Niblo]

A question has been asked concerning the jizyah tax:

This tax guaranteed non-Muslims complete protection under a Muslim State. In time of war, the State had an obligation to protect them; while they had no obligation whatsoever to serve in that State’s armed forces.

The following non-Muslims were exempted from paying the tax: women; children; the elderly; the handicapped; the sick; monks; hermits; slaves; and the insane. Non-Muslim foreigners, whose residence in a Muslim State was temporary, were also exempt. Non-Muslims who elected to join the State’s armed forces were also exempt.

It is my understanding (and I am open to correction) that the tax is no longer imposed by Muslim states (see: ‘Islam in the World Today’; by Werner Ende).

It is reported (I believe with accuracy) that the Taliban and Daesh impose the tax on non-Muslims. However, they are acting unlawfully, since only a legitimate Muslim State has that authority.

The vast majority of Muslims reject the dhimma system – which encompasses jizya – as quite inappropriate in this day and age. This view is, of course, opposed by the (minority) puritan group.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

A question has been asked concerning the jizyah tax:

This tax guaranteed non-Muslims complete protection under a Muslim State. In time of war, the State had an obligation to protect them; while they had no obligation whatsoever to serve in that State’s armed forces.

The following non-Muslims were exempted from paying the tax: women; children; the elderly; the handicapped; the sick; monks; hermits; slaves; and the insane. Non-Muslim foreigners, whose residence in a Muslim State was temporary, were also exempt. Non-Muslims who elected to join the State’s armed forces were also exempt.

It is my understanding (and I am open to correction) that the tax is no longer imposed by Muslim states (see: ‘Islam in the World Today’; by Werner Ende).

It is reported (I believe with accuracy) that the Taliban and Daesh impose the tax on non-Muslims. However, they are acting unlawfully, since only a legitimate Muslim State has that authority.

The vast majority of Muslims reject the dhimma system – which encompasses jizya – as quite inappropriate in this day and age. This view is, of course, opposed by the (minority) puritan group.

Yet many Muslim countries outlaw Christianity entirely, such as Saudi Arabia where apostasy is punishable by death. Are they a minority puritan group as well?

There is nothing about Islam as expressed in the Quran that allows for Christianity to thrive. It is a direct threat to our faith in all western nations.

 

[Niblo]

Yet many Muslim countries outlaw Christianity entirely, such as Saudi Arabia where apostasy is punishable by death. Are they a minority puritan group as well?

Saudi Arabia: The principal source of Islamic puritanism. And yes, a minority group among the world's 1.6 billion Muslims.

 

[Limo]

I've seen a few comments asking about Islam and how come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims.
Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out the answer from Jesus in Gospels only.


Please answer the following questions under the following 2 conditions:

• Copy & Past statements from Gospel only
• It should be Jesus himself words from his mouth not somebody Else's words

Following are the questions :

• What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  
• What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
• Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  
• Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  
• Did he ever went to a Church ?
• Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
• Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
• Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
• Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
• Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
• ..... long list

If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which Party Al-Maseh is connected ?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

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[Zoii]

That's not a valid comparison. American wars were not fueled by religious rhetoric. The issue with Islamic violence is that it's mandated by their ideology and there is little room for dissent within their own institutions.

I understand your point...but with respect Im trying to highlight that those mourning the dead don't care if its military hegemony or religious rhetoric that caused the carnage. Remember the Iraq war was fueled by the possession of wmd..... which didnt exist but a lot have died from US led intervention (AKA bombing).... is that better than killing 202 in Bali?.... Can you see the philosophical issue? Its hard to take a moral higher ground when you do the same things as those you accuse.

That said.... you are right....the extremists of the islamic religion pose the greatest terrorist threat.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Loving your enemy does not mean opening the gates to their forces either. There can be responsible outreach to Muslim nations that doesn't include putting innocent people in harms' way at home.

This is a dangerous, heretical faith which advocates murder, horrid treatment of women and destruction of dissenting opinion/beliefs. While they may be made in the image of God they've used their free will to deny His son and to promote heresy. Worthy of respect? Perhaps. Worthy of acceptance? No.

Women are murdered and raped every few mins in some Christian Countries. Of course when this is mentioned, people are quick to say NO!! Those Countries are secular, but any violence against women in Muslim Countries is because they are living under Islamic Law.

I bet if I asked you to provide evidence of violence and oppression against women outside of a Islamic hate blog, you'd likely find very little. This isn't to say that some Muslim men aren't thugs or that some women don't suffer at the hands of men, because they obviously do. Putin has been reported to say, he wanted to revive Christianity in Russia, and in the last week or so legalised beating of women, as long as no bones are broken. Is he using the teachings of the Bible to justify such a Law? I would hope and think not. I would encourage you to look at the religion, and not some of the misguided people's interpretation of religion mixed with culture.

How do we deny Jesus pbuh as the son of GOD? Ours is the only religion that makes it obligatory to believe Jesus pbuh was born miraculously, performed miracles, was the expected Messiah, the son of GOD and is due to return.

Likely you are confusing First Century understanding of what the Torah term, 'son of GOD' means compared to later Greek understanding of 'Son of GOD'.

 

[PloverWing]

(‘The Great Theft: Wrestling Islam from the Extremists’: Khaled M. Abou El Fadl)

Thank you, Niblo, for the recommendation of this book. You've quoted from it several times now, and the author seems insightful about what religious faith is, and what it can be at its best. (Amazon tells me that the author is a widely known scholar of religion, so I should have known his name already. )

Ever since the events of 2001, I've been trying to understand modern Islam better, by talking with Muslims and by reading books by Muslim authors. It's clear that Islam is currently going through a time of upheaval, perhaps analogous to the Christian Reformation of 500 years ago. It's also clear that, in this age of global communication and travel, Christians and Muslims are now neighbors who have to figure out how to share this planet in peace. So I've put in an interlibrary loan request for The Great Theft, and I'll read it when it arrives. Thank you again for calling it to my attention.

 

[Niblo]

Thank you, Niblo, for the recommendation of this book. You've quoted from it several times now, and the author seems insightful about what religious faith is, and what it can be at its best. (Amazon tells me that the author is a widely known scholar of religion, so I should have known his name already. )

Ever since the events of 2001, I've been trying to understand modern Islam better, by talking with Muslims and by reading books by Muslim authors. It's clear that Islam is currently going through a time of upheaval, perhaps analogous to the Christian Reformation of 500 years ago. It's also clear that, in this age of global communication and travel, Christians and Muslims are now neighbors who have to figure out how to share this planet in peace. So I've put in an interlibrary loan request for The Great Theft, and I'll read it when it arrives. Thank you again for calling it to my attention.

Hello.

Relax, I didn't know him either! He's Professor of Law at the UCLA School of Law, and has written a number of books. In addition to the one you mention I would add 'Speaking in God's Name' and 'The Search for Beauty in Islam - a Conference of the Books'. I've yet to read his other works. God willing that will be remedied soon enough.

As you say, the best way to learn about Islam is to read what Muslims have to say. Try and avoid Imam Google and Pastor Youtube until you are able to distinguish truth from half-truth, and from downright lies! El Fadl is a good start. He reflects the views of the vast majority of Muslims; of those who, like the vast majority of Christians, and of Jews, simply want to live their lives in happiness; at peace with the Beloved, and with their neighbours. Only a fool would think that wrong.

May God bless you, and your family, and grant each of you His ever lasting Peace.

Paul.

 

[outlawState]

Just because biblical figures did this and that doesn't mean you always can... They were anointed for their task...are you?

And who are you to interpose yourself between God and man? Christ said that many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And your concern is for respecting them? Mine is for exposing them.

Stirring up strife? Only in the confines of your political world view, it seems. Democrat means you accept Islam as a valid religion. Too bad. You and me are not of the same religion. I take it you're a high church man who believes, as does the Pope, that Islam is a genuinely valid alternative to Christianity. That is not a biblical position nor does it have any authority from any biblcial prophet or person but is political conjuring worthy of the jesuits.

As for my being annointed? I would throw that back on you. Who annointed you to critique me for citing and following biblical authorities?

 

[PloverWing]

As you say, the best way to learn about Islam is to read what Muslims have to say.

Indeed: I wouldn't want someone learning about Christianity from Pastor Random on the Internet.

Thank you for the additional book recommendations. I will look them up.

Some of the books that I've read in the last few years that helped me were: No God but God, by Reza Aslan; A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini, for a look at what's going on in Afghanistan; and In the Land of Invisible Women, by Qanta Ahmed, for a British Muslim's look at Saudi Arabia. I'm looking also to find a good book of Sufi mystical poetry; from the little I've seen, the Sufi mystics have a lot in common with Christian mystics.

God bless you in your journey, and may our merciful and compassionate God surround you always with his love.

 

[Niblo]

Indeed: I wouldn't want someone learning about Christianity from Pastor Random on the Internet.

Thank you for the additional book recommendations. I will look them up.

Some of the books that I've read in the last few years that helped me were: No God but God, by Reza Aslan; A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini, for a look at what's going on in Afghanistan; and In the Land of Invisible Women, by Qanta Ahmed, for a British Muslim's look at Saudi Arabia. I'm looking also to find a good book of Sufi mystical poetry; from the little I've seen, the Sufi mystics have a lot in common with Christian mystics.

God bless you in your journey, and may our merciful and compassionate God surround you always with his love.

Hello again.

I have the Aslan and the Ahmed. Thought provoking stuff.

For Sufi poetry, try 'Rumi..Whispers of the Beloved' by Maryam Mafi and Azima Melita Kolin.

Yes, the mystics have a lot in common. I especially like St John of the Cross.

Thank you for your blessings. God willing; feel free to ask questions, or to comment on any of the books.

Happy reading!!

 

[Niblo]

Indeed: I wouldn't want someone learning about Christianity from Pastor Random on the Internet.

Thank you for the additional book recommendations. I will look them up.

Some of the books that I've read in the last few years that helped me were: No God but God, by Reza Aslan; A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini, for a look at what's going on in Afghanistan; and In the Land of Invisible Women, by Qanta Ahmed, for a British Muslim's look at Saudi Arabia. I'm looking also to find a good book of Sufi mystical poetry; from the little I've seen, the Sufi mystics have a lot in common with Christian mystics.

God bless you in your journey, and may our merciful and compassionate God surround you always with his love.

'Do you want to enter paradise?
To walk in the path of Truth you need the grace of God.

We all face death in the end.

But on the way, be careful never to hurt a human heart!'.

Rumi.

 

[Philip_B]

This just came accross my desk and as it seemed apposite, I thought to share it. The middle paragraph of the description I feel is quite powerfull.

Transforming Christian-Muslim relations

DESCRIPTION
This is unique opportunity to join two internationally reknowned figures - Lord Rowan Williams of Oystermouth (former Archbishop of Canterbury and Master of Magdalene College Cambridge) and Dr Mona Siddiqi (Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies at the University of Edinburgh) - as they discuss relations between Islam and Christianity in an interpersonal, interreligious and geopolitical context.

In the last fifteen years conflict in the Middle East and beyond has resulted in the exchange between Christians and Muslims becoming increasingly challenging, with misunderstanding and stereotyping present on both sides and beyond. Are there a fresh ways of looking at Christian-Muslim relations that will lead to a more hopeful and open future for all of us in a fractured, mixed belief world?

The event, the third in the Ekklesia/Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church 'Creative Conversations' series, will be chaired by Ekklesia director, Simon Barrow.

 

[outlawState]

But on the way, be careful never to hurt a human heart!'.

Just as well your grandfather is no longer alive then, as you would be hurting him greatly, as well as insulting "the spirit of grace", for:

"How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10;29.

 

[Niblo]

Just as well your grandfather is no longer alive then, as you would be hurting him greatly, as well as insulting "the spirit of grace", for:

"How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10;29.

Thank you. Your comments are duly noted.

 

[Niblo]

This just came accross my desk and as it seemed apposite, I thought to share it. The middle paragraph of the description I feel is quite powerfull.

Transforming Christian-Muslim relations

DESCRIPTION
This is unique opportunity to join two internationally reknowned figures - Lord Rowan Williams of Oystermouth (former Archbishop of Canterbury and Master of Magdalene College Cambridge) and Dr Mona Siddiqi (Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies at the University of Edinburgh) - as they discuss relations between Islam and Christianity in an interpersonal, interreligious and geopolitical context.

In the last fifteen years conflict in the Middle East and beyond has resulted in the exchange between Christians and Muslims becoming increasingly challenging, with misunderstanding and stereotyping present on both sides and beyond. Are there a fresh ways of looking at Christian-Muslim relations that will lead to a more hopeful and open future for all of us in a fractured, mixed belief world?

The event, the third in the Ekklesia/Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church 'Creative Conversations' series, will be chaired by Ekklesia director, Simon Barrow.

The sad fact is there are elements in both religions who will scream 'betrayal' over this meeting.