Islam in eschatology

[mindlight]

Big things have happened in the Middle East in the last 100 years and in recent days especially.

1) the conquest of the land of Israel for the first time since the crusades by a nominally Christian power - Britain.

2) the discovery and utilisation of the worlds most precious fossil fuel in vast quantities in the Middle East. The consequent empowerment of local regimes as they took control of this resource from Imperial powers.

3) the return of the Jews and the creation of the state of Israel.

4) the emptying of the Middle East of Christians and the destruction of ancient churches and Christian communities

5) the radicalisation of a significant % of the local Muslim populations and the emergence of death worshipping cults like IS and Al Qaeda and Oppressive regimes such as that of Iran, the Wahabbis and the Taliban. The overthrow of secular or socialist ideologies such as Baathism and the Arab Spring.

What is happening!? What comes next? Are these signs of Islams growing power or the bluster and noise of one whose control is slipping. Will Israel rebuild its temple? Will the Palestinians die of thirst when their population reaches an unsustainable critical mass? Will their be nuclear war between Israel and the rest, between Sunni and Shia or whoever? With the Christians gone can we expect mass annihilations and wars among the locals. These are dangerous times. What is God saying to the church on this?

Is Islam slipping or rising?

 

[NannaNae]

mindlight I know what he has told me but I am not willing to share it at this point.
I think it is still baking..

I doubt people want to speak what they really think and have studied about these subjects.. unless they have too . I really don't think we are at the ' I have to' yet.
besides he says he leads his sheep.. it is not us who leads, it is him who reveals.

first of all who wants to speak the ideas into existence someway or
who wants to give anyone ideas. we're talking doped up and drugged up on all sides of ugly .. lawless is sleeping with legalism and they are both a blood mess.
and really who wants to be right about any such ideas, predictions or whatever... NO ONE !!

 

[Danoh]

"What is God saying to the church on this?"

Nothing new - He said it all two thousand years ago, and then the Apostle Paul put down his pen and went off to die, "that which is perefect" having "come" - "the [epignosis or full knowledge] of the Son of God," having reached its intended, full, or "perfect" revelation.

With that, God entered His intended Cessasionist phase "til the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

 

[Interplanner]

I think the locals will be fighting it out whether Christians are there or not. The drive of militant Islam is that of purging things because even moderates are enemies. They get rid of them the way an abusive spouse gets rid of a neutralized, lifeless victim.

 

[ebedmelech]

Islam is no different than any other antichrist group! They are part of Gog and Magog too. That sad thing is people can't see Gog and Magog happening right now.

 

[interpreter]

Islamic conquerors are the 7th head of the beast to trample Jerusalem, and they trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years as prophesied. Their time is up, but now they want to rule Jerusalem again and are hell-bent on fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS are remnants of the 7th head of the beast and ultimately will be defeated by 100 pound "hailstones" dropped on them.

 

[mindlight]

mindlight I know what he has told me but I am not willing to share it at this point.
I think it is still baking..

I doubt people want to speak what they really think and have studied about these subjects.. unless they have too . I really don't think we are at the ' I have to' yet.
besides he says he leads his sheep.. it is not us who leads, it is him who reveals.

first of all who wants to speak the ideas into existence someway or
who wants to give anyone ideas. we're talking doped up and drugged up on all sides of ugly .. lawless is sleeping with legalism and they are both a blood mess.
and really who wants to be right about any such ideas, predictions or whatever... NO ONE !!

I am asking the question cause the significance of the events is clear to me and it seems important to understand and interpret the times we live in and be ready for what comes next. There is no doubt that there are tough and ugly times ahead and not just for Christians in the Middle East. But we already know there is a happy ending and can testify to the Glorious Return of Jesus Christ that will ultimately destroy evil and death for good. If God has told you to be silent fine otherwise i think we can take encouragement from God announcing events before they come to pass.

The Middle East seems central to my questions about what God is doing because of the manifestation of evil there and the fact that God seems to be getting his people out. Normally that testifies to an approaching judgment.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

The Middle East seems central to my questions about what God is doing because of the manifestation of evil there and the fact that God seems to be getting his people out. Normally that testifies to an approaching judgment.

Well that may be true and I do believe Islam is under judgment. Let me rephrase that. I believe 9-11 was about Gods judgments against Islam and not the USA.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

"What is God saying to the church on this?"
With that, God entered His intended Cessasionist phase "til the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

Speak for yourself. The cessation has happened in your heart and has nothing to do with the reality in his Word or on the ground. Besides you need to learn how to read. That which is perfect, complete, mature Christianity is love and that is the undeniable context of the chapter.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Islam is no different than any other antichrist group! They are part of Gog and Magog too. That sad thing is people can't see Gog and Magog happening right now.

Amen bro. As also was the Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, The Soviet Union and for that matter any other people or nation that seeks to stop or destroy the growth of the invisible government of God in the earth. The one thing thy all have in common other than being anti-Christ? They were all defeated by the nations and the allies of the nations where the Gospel and the Word of God have the most influence.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Islamic conquerors are the 7th head of the beast to trample Jerusalem, and they trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years as prophesied. Their time is up, but now they want to rule Jerusalem again and are hell-bent on fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS are remnants of the 7th head of the beast and ultimately will be defeated by 100 pound "hailstones" dropped on them.

Really? So we have a fifth empire, not four, that occurs before the prophesied Kingdom of God makes its big debut in the earth? I guess I can throw my Bible away then since Daniel, Zachariah and John prophesied four empires? I guess you could be joking though.
The Jerusalem that was that was trampled underfoot for 1260 years was the New Jerusalem and the trampler was the Roman Empire and the other empires that existed during that time period. Something happened that changed all that though. I wonder what?

 

[mindlight]

"What is God saying to the church on this?"

Nothing new - He said it all two thousand years ago, and then the Apostle Paul put down his pen and went off to die, "that which is perefect" having "come" - "the [epignosis or full knowledge] of the Son of God," having reached its intended, full, or "perfect" revelation.

With that, God entered His intended Cessasionist phase "til the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

Sounds like replacement theology, denies that God guides his church today ( a kind of Deism) and misses the dimensions of future prophecy that were unlikely to be understood 2000 years ago.

 

[mindlight]

I think the locals will be fighting it out whether Christians are there or not. The drive of militant Islam is that of purging things because even moderates are enemies. They get rid of them the way an abusive spouse gets rid of a neutralized, lifeless victim.

So you don't think the removal of Christians will have any impact. I think the growing extremity of rival factions is one consequence of this.

 

[mindlight]

Islam is no different than any other antichrist group! They are part of Gog and Magog too. That sad thing is people can't see Gog and Magog happening right now.

Gog and Magog being a set of forces broadly arrayed against the church as a whole rather than just Israel?

So you attach no special significance to Islam or the Middle Eastern region in this broader global conflict?

 

[mindlight]

Islamic conquerors are the 7th head of the beast to trample Jerusalem, and they trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years as prophesied. Their time is up, but now they want to rule Jerusalem again and are hell-bent on fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS are remnants of the 7th head of the beast and ultimately will be defeated by 100 pound "hailstones" dropped on them.

So according to your historicist reading Islam is the last attempt of the beast to destroy Israel. It will be defeated by the application of military muscle?

By the Americans?

How does the persecution and removal of the church fit with your reading of events?

It was not 1260 years.

 

[mindlight]

Well that may be true and I do believe Islam is under judgment. Let me rephrase that. I believe 9-11 was about Gods judgments against Islam and not the USA.

Do you have any insight on the form of that judgment. I see extremists at war murdering fellow Muslims, i see a Muslim world torn by divisions and strife, there is a growing distinction between rich and poor, dysfunctional economies and wounded cultures that lack peace, righteousness and an honest appraisal of reality.

 

[NannaNae]

So according to your historicist reading Islam is the last attempt of the beast to destroy Israel. It will be defeated by the application of military muscle?

By the Americans?

How does the persecution and removal of the church fit with your reading of events?

It was not 1260 years.

ok so what I suspect more and more is this... yes stuff is still / baking/ evolving as I understand him. so this is still kind of guessing.

Daniel 2 NIV

and the TEN toes / from two legs are the 7 heads and TEN horns of the beast, the bloody megga *tch is their religion. done in the name of our God.. ( when in reality His real religion is the one in REV that has been there from the start with her feet on the moon and and her head in the heavens with the stars )she always has been about life and about light and truth and giving and mercy and protection , that has never changed ..


the ten toes of iron and clay is islam kings and kingdom ..two branches / two legs ( [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and sunni ? maybe or they are iron and clay? , or liberals and lawless with islam's + [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and sunni is 2 legs+ 2 types of people and not strong either way) . from the lands of Nebuchadnezzar and of that statue..

a rock not cut with human hands strikes that statue's ten toes and the kingdom is given to his people forever. and in that rock is hiding our promises and it all of it's fulfillment's.

the same blood laws of native americans is the same ones of islam and Hammurabi (sp? ) of that area also.. and those laws were old and created by great kings. but have always been with out mercy.. because the kings were killed if their people were unlawful..
God could have chosen that kind of law a long time.. because he loves the lawful most .... but man requires mercy to even be saved and to even exist we are so fallen or miserable creatures. .. so he chose Abraham who was full of mercy and protection. .. or no one would be saved ever .

 

[NannaNae]

"the ten toes of iron and clay is islam kings and kingdom ..two branches / two legs ( [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]"
see you can't explain anything anyway..
someone will hike a leg .. Peerer reveiwed ?

( only if you know the bible well will you be able to figure it out now )

 

[Choose Wisely]

Islam is no different than any other antichrist group! They are part of Gog and Magog too. That sad thing is people can't see Gog and Magog happening right now.

It's even sadder when the Bible clearly says different and yet we won't accept what is says.

Rev 19
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea

 

[interpreter]

So according to your historicist reading Islam is the last attempt of the beast to destroy Israel.

Well, there was also Hitler, the 8th head.

It will be defeated by the application of military muscle?

By the Americans?

Yes, the earth is now ruled by the US, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse. Our weapons bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus

How does the persecution and removal of the church fit with your reading of events?

The Church is not removed. There is no rapture because Jesus never mentioned it.

It was not 1260 years.

It was certainly not 1260 days,