Islam for Catholics 101

[Godlovesmetwo]

Got a spare 90 minutes?

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

Answering Islam, A Christian-Muslim Dialog and Apologetic

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The amount of time Muslims spend in prayer is impressive. Something we catholics could learn from.

 

[zara<3]

Islam is a threat to Christianity.

 

[dzheremi]

The amount of time Muslims spend in prayer is impressive. Something we catholics could learn from.

I do not understand this mindset. Why not instead learn from your own Christian brothers and sisters of various backgrounds who keep to the daily hours of prayer (which are seven in Christianity, not five as in Islam), and the vigils, and the fasts (plural; not just one, as with Muslims), and so forth?

Syriac Maronite Morning Prayer of St. Anthony (actually in Syriac! Sadly something of a rarity, according to the Maronites I know, but always nice to hear when it does happen):

Coptic Midnight Praises (Coptic, Greek, and Arabic with subtitles):

Syriac Orthodox Sunday Vespers (English):

Syriac Orthodox Good Friday hourly prayers (English and Syriac with subtitles):

Islam cannot ever hope to approach any of this. Stick with Christian examples, as you and your intended audience are Christians.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I do not understand this mindset. Why not instead learn from your own Christian brothers and sisters of various backgrounds who keep to the daily hours of prayer (which are seven in Christianity, not five as in Islam), and the vigils, and the fasts (plural; not just one, as with Muslims), and so forth?

I do as well.
But the Muslim dedication to prayer is far more widespread in their faith. How many Catholics observe the Liturgy of the Hours, for instance?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I've read a little about St. Anthony too by the way dhezermi. He is quite inspirational I admit.

 

[dzheremi]

I do as well.
But the Muslim dedication to prayer is far more widespread in their faith. How many Catholics observe the Liturgy of the Hours, for instance?

Yes, but how is that fixed by looking to what others of a different religion do? If you want to revive Christian prayer that is moribund in your community, doesn't it make sense that you ought to look to Christians for how to do that?

And, really...Copts, Syriacs, Maronites...even just among the three I provided examples of, that is millions of people right there. And I know that all three are present in Australia. HG Bishop Suriel, Coptic Orthodox bishop of Melbourne, is a leader very dear to my heart. So I'm not even sure how much you can say that these things are not observed. I expect that this is more of a problem of malaise in Western Christianity in particular, in which case your Church confirms that any of the Eastern churches which are in communion with it (though only one in the videos I posted is, those were just for example's sake anyway) are perfectly fine and valid options for the Catholic of any background.

Seems like the Maronites in particular are doing quite well in your country, at least according to this TV segment:

 

[Fish and Bread]

I do not understand this mindset. Why not instead learn from your own Christian brothers and sisters of various backgrounds who keep to the daily hours of prayer (which are seven in Christianity, not five as in Islam), and the vigils, and the fasts (plural; not just one, as with Muslims), and so forth?

"No peace among the nations
without peace among the religions.

"No peace among the religions
without dialogue between the religions.

"No dialogue between the religions without investigation of the foundation of the religions."

― Father Hans Kün, a Roman Catholic priest and theologian, who present at Vatican II

Also, just from a common sense perspective, the world has 2.1 billion Christians in it and 1.5 billion Muslims in it. If the two groups don't learn to get along and understand each other better, we're in for a rough third millenia here. Nobody is ever going to win that war if it becomes an all out war. Each side would have too many people spread across too many countries to ever secure a decisive win.

Fortunately, the average Muslim, like the average Christian, just wants to have a normal peaceful life. Get up, go to work, find a spouse, raise some children, etc.. More days off would be nice. Better access to health care. A raise. You know, people are people.

And, really, Islam and Christianity aren't that dissimilar. Both feature the same montheistic God who had an important prophet named Abraham- and its the same Abraham! Both hold Jesus in high regard- one religion considers him a prophet, the other as the Son of God. Each has feasts and fasts (Ramadan reminds me of Lent), each has internal divisions (Catholics and Protestants, Sunni and Shia), each has fundamentalists, liberals, and everything in between. Really, when you think about how different religions could hypothetically be, Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm all have a ton in common with each other, relatively speaking. They all have the same roots- they share the same God, many of the same religious figures, some commonalities in their moral codes (and some differences)- and perhaps most importantly, a shared humanity and a shared planet.

If we're all children of Abraham, then we are all brothers and sisters. Same applies to being children of the same God. Heck, just genetically speaking, we're all related. We all came out of Africa and are east of Eden or whatever. Do Muslims have a story about Adam and Eve in Eden in their scriptures or traditions? I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

The better we understand each other, hopefully the less we'll want to fight each other. The alternative to that is scary. Just look at the numbers. Neither group is going away. We need to learn to live in peace.

 

[dzheremi]

I don't know what any of that has to do with what I've posted, F&B. I'm talking about the notion that Muslims are so much more steadfast in their prayer than Christians are, such that Christians should have anything to learn from Muslims/Islam in this regard rather than Christians learning from Christians. I'm not talking about getting along or investigating the foundations of one or the other religion or any of this other stuff. Out of respect for your own church and its own view regarding Islam and Muslims as codified in CCC 841, I wouldn't say anything about that in this venue.

Again, it's a pretty simple concept: You're Christian, so your role models in how to be Christian ought to be Christian role models. If you want to get to heaven, you ask the saints the way, not the devils who are interested in having you go another way.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

not the devils who are interested in having you go another way.

 

[Fish and Bread]

If you want to get to heaven, you ask the saints the way, not the devils who are interested in having you go another way.

Catholics don't consider adherents of other religions, or their leaders and prophets, devils. I think we've advanced enough to have gotten past that kind of binary thinking. That's the type of thinking that, on all sides, leads to wars. When people are dehumanized and their religions and cultural traditions discarded as evil or backwards, that's the first step, not even the first step, an advanced step, towards wars or concentration camps or worse. In the era of Trump, we must all be very clear and pointed in our respect for every human being of every religion and ethnicity, and for their faith and practices.

In a sense more specific to what you're talking about, I think people learn in different ways. There have probably been a ton of people who have studied Buddhist meditation and then from there learned of the desert fathers and various Christian meditation traditions. The great Catholic author and monk Thomas Merton was very big on learning from Buddhist monks and others who had been meditating long before there was such a thing as Christianity.

When we lock ourselves out of learning from people who don't share our ethnicity, culture, or religion, we lock ourselves out from knowledge. We become more insular and less able to love our neighbor. Our thinking becomes stagnant without outside input to help generate personal growth and discussion.

That's not telling anyone not to learn from their own tradition, it's just saying that there is more on heaven and earth than is dreamed of in any one philosophy. God and the universe are greater than us all.