• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Ishmael and Islam

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Lords Man, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. Lords Man

    Lords Man Active Member

    United States
    According to Genesis, Ishmael was the son of Abraham (Genesis 16:16). Yet he was not a son born according to the line of ‘promise’ as was Isaac and, subsequently, Jacob who was called Israel (Genesis 17:9, Romans 9:9, Galatians 4:28). He was merely a son ‘after the flesh’, born of one of Sarah’s servants, Hagar the Egyptian (Genesis 16:1-2, Genesis 16:15).

    After Ishmael was born he and his mother were cast out of the family according to the purpose of God. He was not to be an heir along with Isaac (Genesis 21:10-12). After this God made a promise to Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of twelve princes and become ‘a great nation’ (Genesis 17:20, Genesis 21:18). These are named in Genesis 25:13-14. These princes would inhabit and populate the lands of what we now call the Middle East and North Africa. They were the descendants of the modern Arabic type people.

    It was within these people groups that Islam was developed. Mohammed was born in Saudi Arabia, an Ishmaelite descendant after the flesh. His area of influence, during his life and after his death, was the Ishmaelite lands and his followers came from other descendants of this son of Abraham. Thus we understand that those who follow Islam are Ishmaelites.

    We are all well aware of the potential of Islam for violence. Of course, violence is not peculiar to Islam. Yet their violent ways are actually prophesied in the Holy Scripture. In Genesis 16:11-12 we read; “And the angel of the LORD said to her, ‘Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction. He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.’”

    The phrase ‘wild donkey of a man’ and the mention of ‘his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him’ are of particular interest. They speak of the Ishmaelites (including the Muslims) as a generally intractable people, and of the constant conflict against the world and even one another in which they continuously live. We see this in the Bible with, for example, the Canaanite peoples who continually troubled Israel. It is precisely what we yet see of those who embrace Islam and the Quran, in its context, which contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx)

    What is most fascinating, and most comforting for God’s people, is that the atmosphere of terror in the world is, in fact, according to God’s sovereignty. He gave people a description of the Ishmaelite even before Ishmael was fully grown. The relationship between Ishmael and Islam, and the violence that has resulted because of these wild, warring donkeys of men, is merely according to the God, who works all things according to the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11).
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Lords Man

    Lords Man Active Member

    United States
    While the Muslim claims to be a descendant of Abraham he is not one according to ‘spiritual’ Abraham, the father of the faithful (Romans 4:11-17). God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Exodus 3:6, Romans 15:6). Since the Muslim hates and wars against Jacob (Israel), and since they do not acknowledge Jesus the Lord and Christ (God the Son and Savior), and since they worship Allah and not Elohim, they are only carnal descendants of Abraham like the Jews who reject Christ (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:12-16, Romans 9:6-7).
  3. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    If they both do not first honor Jesus, they could be "sibling rivals". Even the disciples could fight with each other about who was the greatest. So, we who are God's children need to be humble >

    "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

    But if Arabs can hurt others but also hurt each other, this can show how ones who abuse you and bully you can also be having major problems in their own families. Because . . . if someone does not know how to love you, it is "possible" that person also does not know how to love anyone > "Love does no harm to a neighbor," we have in Romans 13:10.

    But Peter says >

    "And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

    So, with God we can have His almighty power to keep us from being hurt.

    And so we need to not let ourselves be under the power of unloving people and how they would have us become. Do not let evil decide how you are and if you have hope in God or not.

    "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)