Isaiah 12:2

[AbbaLove]

I know we discussed this in the ... www.christianforums.com/threads/bible-quiz.7980421/page-3 ...

QUIZ: Name one verse in the KJV where we find an erroneous translation that places two false renderings of the Almighty's names side by side? Hint: I do not consider Elohim and Adonai names, but titles. If you do, so be it, but they are not part of the answer.

Still don't fully comprehend why the KJV (and other similar translations) of Isaiah 12:2 (using all caps for both LORD and JEHOVAH) aren't appropriate/proper transliterations of the Hebrew text ?

Isaiah 12:2 "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation."
(KJV)

"Adonai (the plural form of Adon) occurs in the Masoretic text 315 times by the side of the Tetragram YHWH (310 times preceding and five times succeeding it) and 134 times without it. Originally an appellation of God, the word became a definite title, and when the Tetragram became too holy for utterance Adonai was substituted for it, ... The vowel-signs e, o, a, given to the Tetragrammaton in the written text, therefore, indicate this pronunciation, Aedonai, while the form Jehovah, introduced by a Christian writer about 1520, rests on a misunderstanding. The translation of YHWH by the word Lord in the King James's and in other versions is due to the traditional reading of the Tetragrammaton as Adonai, and this can be traced to the oldest translation of the Bible, the Septuagint." ... ADONAI - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

Have i wrongly assumed that LORD (all caps) is an improper transliteration of Adonai and Adonai an improper transliteration of Yahweh (YHWH)? If that is so could someone please explain where the KJV, AMP and several other translations went astray when capitalizing both LORD and GOD (or LORD and GOD) if it is not a proper transliteration? OR is this more a matter of one's theological interpretation ?

Of all the following 51 translated versions of Isaiah 12:2 which one(s) do you believe to be the most representative translation(s) ?? ... Isaiah 12:2 - Bible Gateway

"Behold, God is my salvation. I shall trust and not be afraid, for Yah, the LORD* is my strength and my song. He also has become my salvation.
(ONMB)​

The asterisk after LORD* in the One New Man Bible (ONMB) is intended to imply the following ...

"In the New Testament the word Kurios is used in reference to both Y'shua and the LORD* when quoting or alluding to the LORD* in Hebrew scripture. There is no distinction in the Greek text between the word Lord in reference to Y'shua or to the LORD*." (ONMB quote)
​

Is the above ONMB explanation going too far in representing Yeshua as the LORD* being the Father Incarnate (John 14:9)?

The reason i'm bringing this up again is because there's a Bible Study at the YMCA (i'm a member) discussing the Gospel of John,beginning this Wednesday, that i plan to attend. The theme is "Iron sharpening Iron" (pumping iron ) and if/when the opportunity avails itself i'd like to present the one translsation (of those 51 transliterations) that a well-versed Messianic member considers to be the most representative English transliteration of Isaiah 12:2.

 

[Lulav]

This is one Jewish translation.

From the MASORETIC text

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid; for G-D the L-RD is my strength and song; and He is become my salvation.'

 

[Dave-W]

"Adonai (the plural form of Adon) occurs in the Masoretic text

That reference got it wrong.

"Adonai" is MY Lord. The -ai ending is "my." The plural of Adon is Adonim.

Hodu l'Adonai haAdonim, ki l'olam chasdo Psalm 136:3

Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.

 

[gadar perets]

I know we discussed this in the ... www.christianforums.com/threads/bible-quiz.7980421/page-3 ...

​

Still don't fully comprehend why the KJV (and other similar translations) of Isaiah 12:2 (using all caps for both LORD and JEHOVAH) aren't appropriate/proper transliterations of the Hebrew text ?

Isaiah 12:2 "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation."
(KJV)

"Adonai (the plural form of Adon) occurs in the Masoretic text 315 times by the side of the Tetragram YHWH (310 times preceding and five times succeeding it) and 134 times without it. Originally an appellation of God, the word became a definite title, and when the Tetragram became too holy for utterance Adonai was substituted for it, ... The vowel-signs e, o, a, given to the Tetragrammaton in the written text, therefore, indicate this pronunciation, Aedonai, while the form Jehovah, introduced by a Christian writer about 1520, rests on a misunderstanding. The translation of YHWH by the word Lord in the King James's and in other versions is due to the traditional reading of the Tetragrammaton as Adonai, and this can be traced to the oldest translation of the Bible, the Septuagint." ... ADONAI - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

Have i wrongly assumed that LORD (all caps) is an improper transliteration of Adonai and Adonai an improper transliteration of Yahweh (YHWH)? If that is so could someone please explain where the KJV, AMP and several other translations went astray when capitalizing both LORD and GOD (or LORD and GOD) if it is not a proper transliteration? OR is this more a matter of one's theological interpretation ?

Of all the following 51 translated versions of Isaiah 12:2 which one(s) do you believe to be the most representative translation(s) ?? ... Isaiah 12:2 - Bible Gateway

"Behold, God is my salvation. I shall trust and not be afraid, for Yah, the LORD* is my strength and my song. He also has become my salvation.
(ONMB)​

The asterisk after LORD* in the One New Man Bible (ONMB) is intended to imply the following ...

"In the New Testament the word Kurios is used in reference to both Y'shua and the LORD* when quoting or alluding to the LORD* in Hebrew scripture. There is no distinction in the Greek text between the word Lord in reference to Y'shua or to the LORD*." (ONMB quote)
​

Is the above ONMB explanation going too far in representing Yeshua as the LORD* being the Father Incarnate (John 14:9)?

The reason i'm bringing this up again is because there's a Bible Study at the YMCA (i'm a member) discussing the Gospel of John,beginning this Wednesday, that i plan to attend. The theme is "Iron sharpening Iron" (pumping iron ) and if/when the opportunity avails itself i'd like to present the one translsation (of those 51 transliterations) that a well-versed Messianic member considers to be the most representative English transliteration of Isaiah 12:2.

Of the translations given by Bible Gateway, the best are;

LEB - Look! God is my salvation; I will trust, and I will not be afraid, for my strength and might is Yah, Yahweh; and he has become salvation for me.”

WEB - Behold, God is my salvation. I will trust, and will not be afraid; for Yah, Yahweh, is my strength and song; and he has become my salvation.”
​

My personal translation would be;

Behold, El is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for Yah Yahweh is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.
​

"Adonai", "LORD", "Kurios", "God", etc., do not belong in this verse.

 

[AbbaLove]

My personal translation would be; Behold, El is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for Yah Yahweh is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.

Agree ... my only suggestion/question is that being "El", "Yah", "Yahweh" is my/our salvation then shouldn't "he has become ..." be rightly capitalized as "He has become ...".

I mention this now that the NASB, NJKV and a few other English translations capitalize pronouns like "He" when referring to Jesus/Yeshua. Wouldn't it make even more sense that the LEB and your own above translation capitalize "He has become salvation for me" when referring to Yahweh.

Of the translation given by Bible Gateway, the best are;?

LEB - Look! God is my salvation; I will trust, and I will not be afraid, for my strength and might is Yah, Yahweh; and he has become salvation for me.”​

Generally do you believe the LEB is as good of (literal?) translation as any other
so-called English "literal" translation ?​

 

[AbbaLove]

That reference got it wrong.
"Adonai" is MY Lord. The -ai ending is "my." The plural of Adon is Adonim.

The following (in bold type) is copied from an article in the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia ...

ADONAI (

, literally "my Lord," the plural form of Adon, that is, "Lord" or "Lordship"):
As with Elohim, Adonai's grammatical form is usually explained as a plural of majesty. ...

http:T//www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/840-adonai
​

"Elohim is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deities" in Biblical Hebrew. ... In Modern Hebrew, it is often referred to in the singular despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew."​

The Plural Form of the Term “Adonai” - Messianic Torah
"Adonei" - (plural) lords of...
"Adonai" - (plural) my lords/my lord
www.messianictorah.org/en/pdf/Chapter%203.pdf
​

The reason Judaism considers Adonai as also being plural goes back to Genesis 1:26 ...

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, all the earth,and the creatures that crawl on the earth.”​

Further proof is John 14:9 ...
​

Yeshua replied to him, “Have I been with you so long without your knowing me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?​

​

 

[gadar perets]

​

Agree ... my only suggestion/question is that being "El", "Yah", "Yahweh" is my/our salvation then shouldn't "he has become ..." be rightly capitalized as "He has become ...".

I mention this now that the NASB, NJKV and a few other English translations capitalize pronouns like "He" when referring to Jesus/Yeshua. Wouldn't it make even more sense that the LEB and your own above translation capitalize "He has become salvation for me" when referring to Yahweh.

Generally do you believe the LEB is as good of (literal?) translation as any other
so-called English "literal" translation ?​

Yes, I always capitalize pronouns related to YHWH, but I overlooked that one. I do not capitalize "he" when referring to Yeshua because it causes confusion, especially when the Father and Son are referred to in the same verse or passage.

As for the LEB, I have not read enough of it to comment on it. I only recently downloaded it to my eSword. However, I disagree with their translation of Colossians 2:17, "reality" instead of "body". I use that verse as my test of a good translation.