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Is Yeshua second coming a secret?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, May 28, 2018.

  1. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Mary not only touched Yeshua she grasped onto Him being so overjoyed that Yeshua told her He first must ascend to His Father referring to Acts 1:9-11. Yeshua didn't say don't touch me He said "Don't hold onto me." There is no indication that any of His disciples grasped onto Yeshua or gave him a hug and a kiss being so overjoyed to see Him alive. Yeshua did permit Thomas to touch His wounds.

    Leave it to Heber Book to read more into scripture that isn't there. But if he wants to believe "the 3rd one, not the 2nd one" who are other Messianics to instruct him that he is mistaken. ;)
     
  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    More-modern translations have either "do not hold on to me" or "do not cling to me" or variants thereof. Touch me not - Μη μου ἁπτου, Cling not to me. Ἁπτομαι has this sense in Job 31:7, where the Septuagint use it for the Hebrew דבק dabak, which signifies to cleave, cling, stick, or be glued to.
     
  3. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    It is hard to hold on to, cling to, or cleave to, without touching a person (or thing). The word 'touch' therefore carries the meaning of the other possibilities in the translation, and is a valid term. :)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  4. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Here is another possible reason... Yeshua had just completed taking on the sins of all the world in sacrificing His life. He had become God's perfect sacrifice. This should be paramount in Yeshua's mind upon resurrecting, is going to the Father as First Fruits of the Wave Sheaf. Wouldn't this have to be done in the Heavenly temple before His Father. Yeshua's mind is obviously not on earthly issues but heavenly ones, as He stated that He had not yet ascended to His Father. He could not allow anyone to come in contact with him, could be because of a purity issue. As fulfilling his role as Most High Priest, He must present the sacrifice, Himself, to God in order for the sacrifice to be consummated. This expressed the nature of temple sacrifices in which the High Priest would burn the sacrifice so it could symbolically be purified and ascend to God. Once done, Yeshua could then allow Thomas, for instance, to touch his wounds and also explains why he would not allow Mary to touch him in any manner.
     
  5. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    I believe orthodox Judaism will be the dominate church for some 490 years into the future.. . .with many many adherents the world over...in light that Daniel 70 seven is yet to be fulfilled ....

    so when Hashem finally sends his son to them will he find faith in the earth? Surprise? Yes ....

    But in the last days Hashem will pour out his spirit ....a remnant will know and shine the light again ...like the 144000

    Plus the 2 witnesses will do their thing ...Elijah on earth will be very telling...

    I think the day of the Yahshua is a long process that will begin at the 6th seal ...every event from that point will be telling signs. ..
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  6. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    That is a sensible scenario. He also had take up his G_dly life (having laid it down for us), at some point. This opens the question as to at which point, post resurrection, did he revert to being 100% G_d?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  7. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    HI Randy, did you know that when they asked Jesus what the two greatest commandments were and he replied, 'Love the L-RD your God with all your heart, soul and mind and Love your neighbor as yourself' that he was actually quoting from the Torah? aka "The Law"?

    He did not give this command, it was given at Mt Sinai, approx 1,500 years before Jesus said that. :)
     
  8. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    You rang? :)

    An oldie but a goodie...

    36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    LAW OF LOVE HANGER.JPG
     
  9. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I think the second commandment should read 'gods', not sods! :)
     
  10. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    "Is Yeshua second coming a secret?"

    I think we have a confusion of terms.

    Second coming
    Visitation
    Coming again

    His return as King will be right before the Millinium starts. This is where his foot touches down on the Mt of Olives and it cleaves in two.

    There is the mention by Paul of a 'coming' in the clouds (he doesn't physically touch the earth but draws those who belong to him up to him).

    This can also be defined by the Wedding scenario where the bride must be ready for when the bridegroom comes, she doesn't know when this is and only when the Father of the groom gives his permission that all is ready can he go and take her. This is why I believe Yeshua said that no one knew 'but the Father' when this time would be because that would be understood by those he was speaking to in the custom of Jewish marriage.
     
  11. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    It does read 'gods' it's the font that confused you, I was using the lower case and that particular font is very stylized.

    All the other letters on there are upper case.

    I've just spent a considerable amount of time searching through my fonts to find that particular one but cannot at this time as I'm having trouble with my eyes. But I've been using this for many years and no one's every made that comment before. :)

    I checked and I made this Tuesday, ‎March ‎26, ‎2013, ‏‎7:53:14 PM, so it's been awhile and I've posted in on this forum and others many times.
     
  12. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I used to be a proof reader!
     
  13. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    And I'm a Publisher/Editor/Proofreader etc of an international magazine yet I've not seen every font and I'm sure you haven't either.

    I've found it, it's called
    Calligraphic Regular font

    Note the lower case 'g'

    upload_2018-5-28_18-22-30.png

    Compare with

    upload_2018-5-28_18-23-22.png
     
  14. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Yes, it was the lower case letter in the middle of all upper case text that confused me
    :) I have a similar font in my 1520 assorted fonts.

    It is, however, a good teaching aid. I was teaching on the commandment division a few weeks ago, just as you have shown in the picture.

    Back to the OP...
     
  15. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Christ will come at a time when people think he is not going to show up, and being unexpected.
     
  16. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    I wonder what transforming Judaism in the light of His Spirit would look like. Orthodox Judaism as a body of people transformed by the Holy Spirit, will shed its "traditions" that hold it back, open up its arms to embrace all believers in Yeshua, bring to light that which they have been "keepers of Torah" for centuries, and bless the world with the true gospel around the world before His return.
     
  17. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    The Holy Spirit was there from the beginning but rarely recognised. See Geza Vermes' book 'Christian Beginnings from Nazereth to Nicaea'. The first 80 pages deal with this issue. The remaining 45 pages deal with nascent Christianity.
     
  18. dfw69

    dfw69 Senior Veteran

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    The fruits of the spirit is love joy peace longsuffering etc....Galatians 5:22-23
     
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