Is Wisdom the Holy Spirit which is masculine, or is Wisdom feminine?

[Open Heart]

To be a Mason you must be male.
To be an Eastern Star you must be female.

I wouldn't know. I only know Judaism, and some of the most basic things of the Hebrew Bible.

 

[Major1]

I wouldn't know. I only know Judaism, and some of the most basic things of the Hebrew Bible.

Now you know. How about Kabala? How about the Shekinah religion?

Do you believe as they do that there is a female presence in the Godhead?

 

[Open Heart]

Now you know. How about Kabala? How about the Shekinah religion?

Do you believe as they do that there is a female presence in the Godhead?

I do not personally read Kabbalah. I have no idea what Shekinah religion is. As far as Kabbalah goes, it is forbidden to be studied unless one is grounded in Torah first. Forbidden! IOW unless a person has a foundation in Scripture, they won't interpret Kabbalah correctly. But in my case, I've never had the least interest interest in Kaballah. Never even touched one of its books.

I believe that God the Father has no corporeal body, which means "he" has no sex. We traditionally refer to "him" as a 'he," but the reality of it is that he is beyond gender. If someone wants to call God a she, it is just as correct.

Male and female are biological aspects that have to do with procreation. God does not have a female goddess with which he has sex and has baby gods. Therefore he is not male.

Again, what I am is a Jew who is a Christian. That is where I get my ideas.

 

[Major1]

I do not personally read Kabbalah. I have no idea what Shekinah religion is. As far as Kabbalah goes, it is forbidden to be studied unless one is grounded in Torah first. Forbidden! IOW unless a person has a foundation in Scripture, they won't interpret Kabbalah correctly. But in my case, I've never had the least interest interest in Kaballah. Never even touched one of its books.

I believe that God the Father has no corporeal body, which means "he" has no sex. We traditionally refer to "him" as a 'he," but the reality of it is that he is beyond gender. If someone wants to call God a she, it is just as correct.

Male and female are biological aspects that have to do with procreation. God does not have a female goddess with which he has sex and has baby gods. Therefore he is not male.

Again, what I am is a Jew who is a Christian. That is where I get my ideas.

I am relieved to see that I was mistaken on your thinking of the cult of Shekinah worship and the Kabala teachings.

I agree with you on the image of God the Father. I do not seek to argue about it and only say to you that IMO, first of all, God is a Spirit and does not possess human characteristics or limitations.

Second, all the evidence contained in Scripture agrees that God revealed Himself to mankind in a male form. To begin, God’s true nature needs to be understood.
Scripture contains approximately 170 references to God as the “Father.” By necessity, one cannot be a father unless one is male. If God had chosen to be revealed to man in a female form, then the word “mother” would have occurred in these places, not “father.” In the Old and New Testaments, masculine pronouns are used over and over again in reference to God.
Is God male or female?

Then I would say that when God revealed Himself to humanity He did so in Jesus Christ who was in fact a man.

 

[Open Heart]

I am relieved to see that I was mistaken on your thinking of the cult of Shekinah worship and the Kabala teachings.

I agree with you on the image of God the Father. I do not seek to argue about it and only say to you that IMO, first of all, God is a Spirit and does not possess human characteristics or limitations.

Second, all the evidence contained in Scripture agrees that God revealed Himself to mankind in a male form. To begin, God’s true nature needs to be understood.
Scripture contains approximately 170 references to God as the “Father.” By necessity, one cannot be a father unless one is male. If God had chosen to be revealed to man in a female form, then the word “mother” would have occurred in these places, not “father.” In the Old and New Testaments, masculine pronouns are used over and over again in reference to God.
Is God male or female?

Then I would say that when God revealed Himself to humanity He did so in Jesus Christ who was in fact a man.

God revealed himself to the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews as a Father rather than a Mother because the culture was patriarchal. It was what they could understand. He spoke their "language."

 

[Major1]

God revealed himself to the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews as a Father rather than a Mother because the culture was patriarchal. It was what they could understand. He spoke their "language."

I in fact agree with that. However it may be just as factual that He was presented as a Father because He was a Father. If not.......how did Mary become with child?????

 

[ViaCrucis]

The books of the Apocrypha are not the inspired Word of God and were rejected about 1700 years ago for a reason.

Source?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I in fact agree with that. However it may be just as factual that He was presented as a Father because He was a Father. If not.......how did Mary become with child?????

By the power of the Holy Spirit. The Father did not impregnate Mary. Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Father is Father of the Son from all eternity; not by the Son's Incarnation in the womb of Mary.

We call Him Father because He is Father of the Son, the Eternal Origin and Source of the Son, whose generation from the Father is eternal. That's why we say the Son is "begotten of the Father from before all ages" and He is "God of God".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus Christ is the Eternal Word and Wisdom of God. Divine Wisdom is comprehended as being one and the same as the Logos, as such Jesus is God's Wisdom. And this is what the Apostle St. Paul himself says, "Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Corinthians 1:24).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Major1]

Source?

-CryptoLutheran

Jerome (340-420) rejected the Apocrypha:

"As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." Jerome

Jerome's preface to the books of Solomon:
According to Edward Hills in The King James Version Defended p. 98 other famous Catholics with this viewpoint include Augustine (354-430 who at first defended the Apocrypha as canonical), Pope Gregory the Great (540-604), Cardinal Ximenes, and Cardinal Cajetan.

These include the Pseudepigrapha which contains Enoch, Michael the Archangel, and Jannes and Jambres. Many spurious books falsely claim to have been written by various Old Testament patriarchs. They were composed between 200 B.C. and 100 A.D. There are lots of these spurious books like The Assumption of Moses, Apocalypse of Elijah, and Ascension of Isaiah.

Many ancient Jews rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written.
Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible | CARM.org

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jerome (340-420) rejected the Apocrypha:

"As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." Jerome

Jerome's preface to the books of Solomon:
According to Edward Hills in The King James Version Defended p. 98 other famous Catholics with this viewpoint include Augustine (354-430 who at first defended the Apocrypha as canonical), Pope Gregory the Great (540-604), Cardinal Ximenes, and Cardinal Cajetan.

These include the Pseudepigrapha which contains Enoch, Michael the Archangel, and Jannes and Jambres. Many spurious books falsely claim to have been written by various Old Testament patriarchs. They were composed between 200 B.C. and 100 A.D. There are lots of these spurious books like The Assumption of Moses, Apocalypse of Elijah, and Ascension of Isaiah.

Many ancient Jews rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture. Philo never quoted the Apocrypha as Scripture. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha and listed the Hebrew Canon to be 22 books. In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written.
Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible | CARM.org

You seem to be under the impression that Jerome is the de facto authority on what is and isn't canonical. I would like to see St. Augustine and St. Gregory the Great's actual statements, as some vague reference from a 20th century work is hardly convincing.

The conversation about books such as Enoch, et al is irrelevant. The Deuterocanonicals and the various books such as Enoch and other 2nd Temple works of Pseudipigrapha are apples and oranges.

Yes, Jerome challenged the canonicity of the Deuterocanonicals, he nevertheless included them in his translation of Scripture.

To go from Jerome having a private opinion on the matter to saying that these books were rejected by the Church in the 4th century is more than a stretch.

As I can see your Jerome, and offer you the Synods of Carthage, Rome, and Laodicea, the Apostolic Constitutions, the Decretum Gelasianium, etc.

None of the above establishes a settled matter; but one voice is easily countered by multiple voices.

You will need to do better to back up your claim.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Open Heart]

I in fact agree with that. However it may be just as factual that He was presented as a Father because He was a Father. If not.......how did Mary become with child?????

By a miracle. A woman was chosen because life begins at conception and needs a womb to grow.

 

[RDKirk]

Why is this even considered a worthwhile question? Of what possible use could be the answer, even if there were an answer?

The only purpose of the question is to create confusion.

 

[Major1]

By the power of the Holy Spirit. The Father did not impregnate Mary. Mary conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Father is Father of the Son from all eternity; not by the Son's Incarnation in the womb of Mary.

We call Him Father because He is Father of the Son, the Eternal Origin and Source of the Son, whose generation from the Father is eternal. That's why we say the Son is "begotten of the Father from before all ages" and He is "God of God".

-CryptoLutheran

Of course that is all true. But there my be a real simple reason why God is called our Father and that is because Jesus called God "Our Father"...... in Matthew 6:9 but I believe that Mr. @RDKirk had the correct comment!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Of course that is all true. But there my be a real simple reason why God is called our Father and that is because Jesus called God "Our Father"...... in Matthew 6:9 but I believe that Mr. @RDKirk had the correct comment!

He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, because of the eternal generation of the Son. Christ's Father is our Father by adoption, Jesus has given us sonship, as children of God by grace, as heirs of God, joint-heirs with Jesus; having received the Spirit of God's Son by which we call out "Abba! Father!".

Jesus calls God His Father because God is His Father--from all eternity.

There is no paternal contribution in the Incarnation, it is a miraculous act by the power of the Holy Spirit. Which is why looking to the miraculous conception of the Son of God in Mary's womb is not how or why we call God the Father God the Father, it isn't what makes God the Father of Jesus. What makes God the Father of Jesus is that He begets the Son from all eternity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CaspianSails]

The Holy Spirit can be personified as either feminine or masculine, but I think the feminine is more apt: comforting i.e. is a nurturing, feminine trait. Wisdom is absolutely personified as female in the Bible.

God is not a person but is a Spirit an eternal being. The Holy Spirit is neither masculine or feminine, the Holy Spirit is God.

 

[Billy UK]

Ephesians 1:17 KJV

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

As we can see Wisdom comes from the Father and is an attribute of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of the Lord.


Isaiah 11:2 King James Version (KJV)

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord

 

[Billy UK]

Galatians 4:6 (KJV)

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

We pray to the FATHER who the Holy Spirit proceeds from

John 15:26 (KJV)

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me