Is Wisdom the Holy Spirit which is masculine, or is Wisdom feminine?

[he-man]

SIRACH1
All wisdom comes from the Lord and is with Him forever.
The sands of the sea, the drops of rain, and the days of eternity- who can count them?
The height of heaven, the breadth of the earth, the abyss, and wisdom- who can search them out?
Wisdom was created before all things, and prudent understanding from eternity.
The root of wisdom- to whom has it been revealed? HER clever devices- who knows them?
There is One who is wise, greatly to be feared, sitting upon His throne. The Lord Himself
created Wisdom; He saw her and apportioned her, he poured her forth upon all His works.
She dwells with all flesh according to his gift, and He supplied her to those who love Him.

I was told by some here Wisdom is the Holy Spirit. But, the Holy Spirit is of the Triune God, therefore is masculine and is God, know one created God!
It says in this Sirach 1 she was created by God, the first of His works. So this means she was created before anything else in creation. But she is poured out upon men according to their gifts.
Wisdom is obviously a she. Proverbs 9 Wisdom has built Her house. Here again Wisdom
is referred to as SHE.
My husband pointed something out to me in Proverbs9:5
it says, "Come eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed." Some bibles
have mingled. What is the wine? Is it the blood of Christ? And in whom does the mixing and mingling take place?
In whom did Christ become flesh. Was there transfer of DNA?
Was Christ mixed with Mary?
not that DNA matters but, did he take on Mary's flesh to be flesh and Divine?
Wisdom of Solomon
Chpt.8 I loved her and sought her from my youth, and I desired to take her for my bride, and I became enamored of her beauty. She glorifies her noble birth by living with God and the Lord of all loves her. For she is an initiate in the knowledge of God, and associate in His works.
Does this mean Wisdom should be married to the soul of every God fearing person especially a Jew?
In Proverbs 8:30 then was I beside Him like a master workman and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always.
Can Wisdom be the Holy Spirit? NO!
Is Wisdom given by the Holy Spirit? YES!
If she was created to be at the Words side, would she have to be at His side on earth when he was Incarnated? And if she is apportioned upon man according to His gifts, was she apportioned upon Mary fully?
Is this what full of grace is?
Would wisdom have to accompany Christ who is the Word on earth, he fashioned her, she is the first of His works. Would He give her fully to Mary?
Was Mary the first of His works of Christianity?
Could Mary be the embodiment of Wisdom?
Could these words be prophecies concerning Wisdom, from Sirach, and Solomon
Why or why not?
An after thought: If wisdom is apportioned to men according to their gifts,
What was the greatest gift given to anyone? And in proportion to that gift
which is the fullness of life- God, would the proportion of Wisdom have to be in full measure, considering the gift?​

feminine noun sophia H2454 chokmowth Proverbs 9:1 Mary is not the embodiment of wisdom, it is given from God. Proverbs 14:1; Proverbs 14:6

 

[Major1]

I am not saying any thing. I am quoting...
But that would appear to be what it is saying.
I am as surprised as you would seem to be.

My apologies and that is why I asked you the question before making any comment.

 

[Major1]

Then you migt be interested to learn that both the Anglican and cattholic Churches also take some of their cycle of readings fom the apocrapher.
While it is not used to arrive at church dogma, the books are considered useful for instruction. And certainly not occultic or Satanic. A claim more often made againt Revelation. And the apocrapher is authorised for inclusion in the Bible. I have both a KJV and a NRSV with it in.

Yes sir, you are correct.

For example, the RCC teaching on Purgatory does NOT come from the Bible, but from the book of Maccabees.

The same for the prayers for the dead and on and on and on.

As for my comment of Occultic and I do this for your understanding and I am not trying to de-rail this thread.

Enoch 40:9-10 which is a book in the Apocrypha.......
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days."
The Book Of Enoch EXPOSED!

WHY then this Aprocrapheral book is OCCULTIC is the fact that The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life.

Now my dear friend, those TWO verses alone is blasphemy and that is only TWO of many more! That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 ..........
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

That tells us that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel. Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone.

Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

 

[Major1]

The Holy Spirit can be personified as either feminine or masculine, but I think the feminine is more apt: comforting i.e. is a nurturing, feminine trait. Wisdom is absolutely personified as female in the Bible.

I certainly understand that you as a Catholic believer would feel the need to say that.

That is not a personal comment but just an observation sister.

I would however say to you that in the Scriptures, God is never given a feminine name and neither is he referred to using feminine pronouns.

The Holy Spirit is always referred to in the MASCULINE
all through the New Test.

Also, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit" (ruach) is feminine in Genesis 1:2. But the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew has nothing to do with gender identity.
Is the Holy Spirit a "He," "She," or “It,” male, female, or neuter?

 

[Mark_Sam]

Enoch 40:9-10 which is a book in the Apocrypha.......
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days."

The Books of Enoch are not part of the Catholic and Orthodox Canon of Scripture. The Deuterocanonical Books are, as I mentioned, the Books of Judith, Tobit, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch (including the Letter of Jeremiah), 1st and 2nd Maccabees, and the Greek additions to the Esther and Daniel. These seven books and additions were found in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and were in common use among the Greek-speaking Jews of the Roman Empire.

The Books of Enoch (there are 3 of them), the Book of Jubilees, 3rd and 4th Maccabees, The Asumption of Moses, The Lives of Adam and Eve, The Apocalypse of Abraham and many more are the Apocrypha proper (lit. 'the hidden books') and have never been regarded as inspired Scripture by the universal Church. These never saw widespread use amongst Jews or Christians.

So I agree with your critique of the Book of Enoch. But grouping the Apocrypha (Enoch, Jubiliees, ...) together with the Deuterocanonicals (Wisdom, Sirach, ...) is simply not tenable by any standard.

 

[Major1]

The Books of Enoch are not part of the Catholic and Orthodox Canon of Scripture. The Deuterocanonical Books are, as I mentioned, the Books of Judith, Tobit, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch (including the Letter of Jeremiah), 1st and 2nd Maccabees, and the Greek additions to the Esther and Daniel. These seven books and additions were found in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, and were in common use among the Greek-speaking Jews of the Roman Empire.

The Books of Enoch (there are 3 of them), the Book of Jubilees, 3rd and 4th Maccabees, The Asumption of Moses, The Lives of Adam and Eve, The Apocalypse of Abraham and many more are the Apocrypha proper (lit. 'the hidden books') and have never been regarded as inspired Scripture by the universal Church. These never saw widespread use amongst Jews or Christians.

So I agree with your critique of the Book of Enoch. But grouping the Apocrypha (Enoch, Jubiliees, ...) together with the Deuterocanonicals (Wisdom, Sirach, ...) is simply not tenable by any standard.

I just picked Enoch because of the obviouse flaws it has.

Wouldn't you say that the Deuterocanonical books teach many things that are not true and are not historically accurate???

And I wonder if you would then accept the fact that the Catholic church only included the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals because these books support some of the beliefs that it teaches and practices which are not in agreement with the Bible such as praying for the dead, petitioning “saints” in Heaven, worshiping angels, and “alms giving” atoning for sins, purgatory and other un-biblical beliefs.

 

[Mark_Sam]

Wouldn't you say that the Deuterocanonical books teach many things that are not true and are not historically accurate???

And I wonder if you would then accept the fact that the Catholic church only included the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals because these books support some of the beliefs that it teaches and practices which are not in agreement with the Bible such as praying for the dead, petitioning “saints” in Heaven, worshiping angels, and “alms giving” atoning for sins, purgatory and other un-biblical beliefs.

I can agree that some things in the Deuterocanonicals might be historical inaccurate. For example, the Book of Judith might actually be best understood a historical novella or historical fiction (Judith - the Jewess - overcoming the powers of evil). However, I have yet to see some proof on your claim that these books were added to justify certain doctrines. Prior to the Reformation, there did not exist any Christian Old Testament in use without the Deuterocanonicals, as far as I know. And if they were added to the Protocanon in the early Church, this seems to have been remarkably uncontroversial.

Anyhow ...

The topic of this thread is how to understand "Wisdom" in the Book of Sirach and how it relates to Mary, not about the canonicity of the book itself. And I have answered that question already.

 

[Open Heart]

God is never given a feminine name and neither is he referred to using feminine pronouns.

"Shekinah", the noun which refers to that special presence of God above the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, is FEMININE.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I see that all of us who have responded to the poll are in complete agreement with each other. Will wonders never cease?

 

[Major1]

"Shekinah", the noun which refers to that special presence of God above the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, is FEMININE.

The teaching of "Shekinah" is nothing more that a hoax my dear.

Please look it up and do the homework and I think that you will find that
the first person recorded to have this name was Sakinah bint Husayn, the youngest female child of Husayn bin Ali, an imam who helped Mohammad spread the Islamic belief. Doesn’t it seem odd that a Muslim would name his child after a Christian event? It might if Shekinah had anything to do with Christianity. Shekinah is not recorded anywhere in the Bible in English, Greek, or Hebrew; however, sakinah is recorded in the Qu’ran. Hummm!

This is the Catholic version of creation with God reaching down and touching Adam to bring him to life instead of breathing life into his nostrils as the Bible says. Who’s the chick on “God’s” arm? –
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-sistine-chapel-photos/slides/ceiling-adam2-wga

I am sure that you are not promoting this but the little girl in the abo is Shekinah, the “queen of heaven.” You’re probably more familiar with her other names – Sophia, Mary (if you pray to her), Isis, Diana, Asherah, Ishtar. Shekinah is a female goddess. Now for the kicker – Shekinah is supposed to be the “revealed” name of the Holy Spirit. These people state the Holy Spirit is the Lord’s wife/girlfriend/consort and the female counterpart to the Trinity.



There are many people today teaching that the Holy Spirit is a woman (which allows them to get rid of Biblical submission or usurping authority) because they decided God had to have a wife to make us.

Throughout the Bible, God is always referenced in the male gender. But God isn’t human and attempts to assign human characteristics to Him are doomed to failure. God created us in His image, and ever since then, unbelieving humans have tried to re-create God in ours. It doesn’t work.

 

[Open Heart]

The teaching of "Shekinah" is nothing more that a hoax my dear.

Major, I am a Jew who is Catholic. I have studied Torah in the synagogues, in Hebrew. I am not mistaken about Shekinah, the presence of God above the mercy seat of the Ark, being female.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Major, I am a Jew who is Catholic. I have studied Torah in the synagogues, in Hebrew. I am not mistaken about Shekinah, the presence of God above the mercy seat of the Ark, being female.

All one really needs to do is consult that fount of all knowledge - Wikipedia. Shekhinah - Wikipedia

 

[1am3laine]

Yeah I've been hearing for awhile now that the Holy Spirit is Feminine.
The classic thought is if GOD made adam/eve in His image & likeness it has to be a female in the Trinity because you can't make a she(eve) if there isn't a She in the Trinity which could only be the Holy Spirit.
Because the Father/Son are Male.

Also The name Dunamis(Holy Spirit power in Greek) is Feminine and Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit in Hebrew).
Plus in Proverbs 8 the spirit of wisdom is described as a woman.


I'm still NOT all the way sure but I can see why people believe the Holy Spirit is Female.
I still say the Holy Spirit is a HIM.

 

[Major1]

Major, I am a Jew who is Catholic. I have studied Torah in the synagogues, in Hebrew. I am not mistaken about Shekinah, the presence of God above the mercy seat of the Ark, being female.

What you were or what you are does not matter to me. IF you are SAVED then that is all that matters.

The Torah is not the Bible and the Catholic church does not follow Scripture.

I do believe that you are misinformed on this subject. I encourage you to do a deeper study of the Word of God.

 

[Major1]

Yeah I've been hearing for awhile now that the Holy Spirit is Feminine.
The classic thought is if GOD made adam/eve in His image & likeness it has to be a female in the Trinity because you can't make a she(eve) if there isn't a She in the Trinity which could only be the Holy Spirit.
Because the Father/Son are Male.

Also The name Dunamis(Holy Spirit power in Greek) is Feminine and Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit in Hebrew).
Plus in Proverbs 8 the spirit of wisdom is described as a woman.


I'm still NOT all the way sure but I can see why people believe the Holy Spirit is Female.
I still say the Holy Spirit is a HIM.

I am sorry my dear but the Holy Spirit is a SPIRIT!

It does not take a lot of insight to see how much the Catholic Church wants to exalt Mary into an office that God never ordained. The Catholic Church calls the RCC doctrine, "The Assumption of Mary". Here's a typical picture often used to describe their made up event.

And so what Catholicism does is lean toward worship of a feminine deity that they created themselves. They call her "Mary" but this has been exposed as a lie over and over again. It all goes back to the pagans worshipping Asherah, a woman!

I encourage you to do the study for yourself. It will not take you long to find out that the RCC is not the only church to promote this false teaching............

Branch Davidians:
In 1977, one of their leaders, Lois Roden, began to formally teach that a feminine Holy Spirit is the heavenly pattern of women. In her many studies and talks she cited numerous scholars and researchers from Jewish, Christian, and other sources. They see in the creation of Adam and Eve a literal image and likeness of the invisible Godhead, male and female, who is "clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made" (Romans 1:20).

They take the Oneness of God to mean the "familial" unity which exists between them, which unity is not seen in any other depiction of the Godhead by the various non-Hebrew peoples. Thus, having a Father and Mother in heaven, they see that the Bible shows that those Parents had a Son born unto them before the creation of the world, by Whom all things were created.

Unity Church:
The Unity Church's co-founder Charles Fillmore considered the Holy Spirit a distinctly feminine aspect of God considering it to be "the love of Jehovah" and "love is always feminine"

Mormons:
Main article: Mormonism and Christianity One Mormon hymn refers to a Heavenly Mother, partnered to the Father. However, it is not worshipped as divine and official Mormon teachings hold that the Spirit is considered to be male.
Refuting the Doctrine that the Holy Spirit is Feminine / Female (David J Stewart Monica Dennington)

 

[Open Heart]

What you were or what you are does not matter to me. IF you are SAVED then that is all that matters.

A person can be saved and be mistaken on matters such as Shekinah. That appears to be the case with you.

 

[he-man]

What you were or what you are does not matter to me. IF you are SAVED then that is all that matters. The Torah is not the Bible and the Catholic church does not follow Scripture. I do believe that you are misinformed on this subject. I encourage you to do a deeper study of the Word of God.

God knows the beginning and the end. In fact, since He knows the end from the beginning Isaiah 46:10, He is in control of the entire timeline; otherwise, He could not know how things will end. In comparison, we know by experience that we are in control of so little. Events frequently do not work out as we hoped. What a difference there is between God and us! John W. Ritenbaugh
God has a purpose that will not fail...Thy Kingdom Come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. So it is.. Hallowed which should be translated as consecrated [sacrosanct ] be thy name: to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrate and so render inviolable; sacrosanct treated as if holy : immune from criticism or violation · Matthew 6:9-13

 

[Major1]

A person can be saved and be mistaken on matters such as Shekinah. That appears to be the case with you.

And then a person can be saved and NOT BE mistaken on such matters as Shekinah. That appears to be the case with me.

I am assuming because you have hinted and not actually said anything,
(an indication of Masonry/Eastern Star to conceal and never to reveal)
but maybe you do not know that the word "Shekinah" is a Chaldean word meaning resting-place, ... and in the worldwide organization of Freemasonry, ... "Shakhina is the word used in the Cabbala for the wife of Elohim."

Now am I mistaken on this matter or are you as a former Jew becoming a Catholic in such an organization/church/belief?

 

[Open Heart]

And then a person can be saved and NOT BE mistaken on such matters as Shekinah. That appears to be the case with me.

I am assuming because you have hinted and not actually said anything,
(an indication of Masonry/Eastern Star to conceal and never to reveal)
but maybe you do not know that the word "Shekinah" is a Chaldean word meaning resting-place, ... and in the worldwide organization of Freemasonry, ... "Shakhina is the word used in the Cabbala for the wife of Elohim."

Now am I mistaken on this matter or are you as a former Jew becoming a Catholic in such an organization/church/belief?

You can't be a former Jew. It is a tribal thing. An ethnic thing. It's like you can't be a former Chinese. I am a Jew as well as a Christian. What we call a Messianic Jew. I have nothing to do with Masonry -- my church forbids my being a Mason.

 

[Major1]

You can't be a former Jew. It is a tribal thing. An ethnic thing. It's like you can't be a former Chinese. I am a Jew as well as a Christian. What we call a Messianic Jew. I have nothing to do with Masonry -- my church forbids my being a Mason.

To be a Mason you must be male.
To be an Eastern Star you must be female.

But by your lack of a clear answer, and how you skirted your response, we can now assume that you are involved in the feminist concept of the divine feminine term "Shekhinah" and the related occult trinity of the Kabbalah.

In Kabbalah, the term for Holy Spirit, Ruach, supposedly has a feminine gender and is therefore "the Mother." Therefore, say the Kabbalists, "the Christian Trinity properly translated should be Father, Son and Mother."