Futurist Only Is Trumpet 6 the same as Bowl 6?

[BuildingApologetics]

Trumpet 6 seems to have a very strong correlation to bowl 6. Both involve something happening at the river Euphrates, and both involve large amounts of troops and war. Yet, the trumpet involves cavalry that seem to be either demons or demonically inspired.
Are we seeing one battle or one war between these two judgments? Perhaps Trumpet 6 is the initial conflict that leads to Armageddon (bowl 6). Otherwise maybe they are the same exact march/battle across the Euphrates into the plain of Armageddon.

So if you believe they are not the same, how do you explain the similarities? Also, how do you explain that both the 7th bowl and seventh trumpet seem to indicate the return of the Lord?

If you believe that they are the same, do you then believe the trumpets and bowls overlap? If so, how do you explain the fact that the bowls seem to be an increased intensity compared with the trumpets?

PS: If Daniel 11:45 refers to the antichrist, how is he slain to the west of Jerusalem if the battle of Armageddon occurs to the northeast and if his forces come from the northeast?

 

[TribulationSigns]

how do you explain that both the 7th bowl and seventh trumpet seem to indicate the return of the Lord?

Okay...I believe that this is a very popular misconception in theology, that the seven vials represent things happening in "stages" at different times, one taking place after the other. The same misconception that some have that the seven churches of Asia represent seven different periods that run one after the other. I don't believe that. The Bible does not teach this. God often uses the number seven to signify "completeness," rather than to declare something is seven particular, different things. For example the Seven Spirits of God. There are not seven spirits of God, there is ONE Spirit of God, but the number 7 signifies completeness in its ministry all over the world. And have you considered WHY do the Living Creatures in the midst of the throne have 7 eyes and 7 horns? Why are there 7 seals on the book in Revelation? Why are there 7 lamps of fire burning before the throne? Why are there 7 stars in the right hand of Christ? And so on and so forth, is because the number 7 signifies the completeness of whatever is in view. Those 7 stars in Christ's hand signified the completeness of His messengers. Likewise, the 7 vials signify the completeness of God's final judgment poured out on the earth, because of the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 21:9

• "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

These vials were full of the seven last plagues, or the seven [eschatos] plagues, and that is why there were seven of them, to signify completeness--not to show that seven different events would take place at seven different times, taking place one after the other. We have to keep in mind, this is a revealing, a revelation, or more correctly put a group of revelations in symbolic imagery showing the same things (God's magnificent salvation and judgment program) over and over again. God says something in one chapter and will say the exact same thing, with different symbolic imagery in another chapter. Revelation is in no way chronological in its order of things revealed in imagery. For example, Christ is in the church in Revelation 2, the sealing of Israel ends in Revelation 7, and Christ is born in Revelation 12. See? It's obviously not in order.

I believe that these seven vials being poured out run concurrently. In other words, we are receiving in Revelations, seven portraits of the same event, each revealing a different aspect of what will be taking place. Much like you saw seven portraits of the Revolutionary war, each showing a different aspect of that one war, by a different picture. Or as Christ is seen as the Vine in one place to highlight one thing, the Lamb of God in another place to highlight another, and the Holy Temple to highlight still something else. It's not three separate prophesies of Christ, it's simply using different imagery to illustrate Him as the true Israel (Vine), that He is the Sacrifice (Lamb), and that He is House of God (Temple) in whom we dwell. In this same way, these seven vials are numbered to seven to signify "completion" (as the 7 churches or angels or spirits, etc.), while these judgment plagues are one judgment, the portraits concurrent. They are all one event.

Look at the pains and sores of Revelation 16:11 poured out in the 5th vial. You can see the same sores poured out in the first vial. Or as the 3rd vial poured out made the waters and rivers turn to blood, and the 2nd vial poured out on the sea had already made it turn to blood. Did God do the seas first and then go to the rivers and fountains? Not at all! It is the SAME EVENT of bringing death, but highlighting different aspects of this judgment. The plagues are operating simultaneously upon the earth and they are spoken of as seven to instruct us of the completeness of God's wrath upon them. This is the end time judgment wherein every stone of the Temple will be thrown down, the kingdom becomes void of the life of light, and this signified by blood and darkness, as there is now no healing for the torment of pain and sores. The reason is that the whole house of Israel has been sealed, the testimony of the two witnesses is finished and the day has come when no man can work. There is no repentance by them for their abominations and they continue to blasphemy because the Lord has cut them off.

Hope this helps.

 

[ewq1938]

Trumpet 6 seems to have a very strong correlation to bowl 6. Both involve something happening at the river Euphrates, and both involve large amounts of troops and war. Yet, the trumpet involves cavalry that seem to be either demons or demonically inspired.

The 6th trumpet is the Great Tribulation and when the 7th trump sounds, the Great Tribulation is over and the second coming begins which will include all 7 bowls.

So if you believe they are not the same, how do you explain the similarities?

Common terms and places etc are common things that repeat. The timeframe of each is different.

If you believe that they are the same, do you then believe the trumpets and bowls overlap?

No, once the 7th trump sounds certain events start happening and one of those will be the vials being poured.

If so, how do you explain the fact that the bowls seem to be an increased intensity compared with the trumpets?

They are the wrath of God that takes place during the 7th trump or better said the day the 7th trump sounds. The trump doesn't sound through the whole day.

 

[BuildingApologetics]

Okay...I believe that this is a very popular misconception in theology, that the seven vials represent things happening in "stages" at different times, one taking place after the other. The same misconception that some have that the seven churches of Asia represent seven different periods that run one after the other. I don't believe that. The Bible does not teach this. God often uses the number seven to signify "completeness," rather than to declare something is seven particular, different things. For example the Seven Spirits of God. There are not seven spirits of God, there is ONE Spirit of God, but the number 7 signifies completeness in its ministry all over the world. And have you considered WHY do the Living Creatures in the midst of the throne have 7 eyes and 7 horns? Why are there 7 seals on the book in Revelation? Why are there 7 lamps of fire burning before the throne? Why are there 7 stars in the right hand of Christ? And so on and so forth, is because the number 7 signifies the completeness of whatever is in view. Those 7 stars in Christ's hand signified the completeness of His messengers. Likewise, the 7 vials signify the completeness of God's final judgment poured out on the earth, because of the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 21:9

• "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

These vials were full of the seven last plagues, or the seven [eschatos] plagues, and that is why there were seven of them, to signify completeness--not to show that seven different events would take place at seven different times, taking place one after the other. We have to keep in mind, this is a revealing, a revelation, or more correctly put a group of revelations in symbolic imagery showing the same things (God's magnificent salvation and judgment program) over and over again. God says something in one chapter and will say the exact same thing, with different symbolic imagery in another chapter. Revelation is in no way chronological in its order of things revealed in imagery. For example, Christ is in the church in Revelation 2, the sealing of Israel ends in Revelation 7, and Christ is born in Revelation 12. See? It's obviously not in order.

I believe that these seven vials being poured out run concurrently. In other words, we are receiving in Revelations, seven portraits of the same event, each revealing a different aspect of what will be taking place. Much like you saw seven portraits of the Revolutionary war, each showing a different aspect of that one war, by a different picture. Or as Christ is seen as the Vine in one place to highlight one thing, the Lamb of God in another place to highlight another, and the Holy Temple to highlight still something else. It's not three separate prophesies of Christ, it's simply using different imagery to illustrate Him as the true Israel (Vine), that He is the Sacrifice (Lamb), and that He is House of God (Temple) in whom we dwell. In this same way, these seven vials are numbered to seven to signify "completion" (as the 7 churches or angels or spirits, etc.), while these judgment plagues are one judgment, the portraits concurrent. They are all one event.

Look at the pains and sores of Revelation 16:11 poured out in the 5th vial. You can see the same sores poured out in the first vial. Or as the 3rd vial poured out made the waters and rivers turn to blood, and the 2nd vial poured out on the sea had already made it turn to blood. Did God do the seas first and then go to the rivers and fountains? Not at all! It is the SAME EVENT of bringing death, but highlighting different aspects of this judgment. The plagues are operating simultaneously upon the earth and they are spoken of as seven to instruct us of the completeness of God's wrath upon them. This is the end time judgment wherein every stone of the Temple will be thrown down, the kingdom becomes void of the life of light, and this signified by blood and darkness, as there is now no healing for the torment of pain and sores. The reason is that the whole house of Israel has been sealed, the testimony of the two witnesses is finished and the day has come when no man can work. There is no repentance by them for their abominations and they continue to blasphemy because the Lord has cut them off.

Hope this helps.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response! I agree with the view that 7 represents completeness. I also like your view of the 7 bowls occurring simultaneously. Based on your response, I have a few clarification questions.
1) Do the 7 Seals occur concurrently?
2) Do the 7 Trumpets occur concurrently?
3) Do the trumpets occur concurrently with the Seals or Bowls?
4) Are the 7 Bowls included in the 7th Trumpet?
5) Where do you place the Abomination of Desolation?
6) Do you believe the individuals of Revelation 11:13 have the ability to be saved, and does this occur before or after the rapture?
7) What do you think the Sealing of the 144,000 means?

Sorry for just dumping all of my eschatology problems on you, but I am interested in how your view accounts for these questions.

 

[BuildingApologetics]

The 6th trumpet is the Great Tribulation and when the 7th trump sounds, the Great Tribulation is over and the second coming begins which will include all 7 bowls.
Common terms and places etc are common things that repeat. The timeframe of each is different.

No, once the 7th trump sounds certain events start happening and one of those will be the vials being poured.

They are the wrath of God that takes place during the 7th trump or better said the day the 7th trump sounds. The trump doesn't sound through the whole day.

So would you then place the abomination of desolation/middle of the 7 years at the 6th trumpet? Or do you consider only the 3.5 years mentioned within Revelation to begin at the 6th Trumpet?
So do the Demon Locust creatures not count as part of the Tribulation?

I definitely appreciate the idea that the bowls of wrath all occur simultaneously on your view.
Lastly, where do you think the Antichrist dies? In Jerusalem or Armageddon?

 

[ewq1938]

So would you then place the abomination of desolation/middle of the 7 years at the 6th trumpet? Or do you consider only the 3.5 years mentioned within Revelation to begin at the 6th Trumpet?

I generally believe the 6th trump is the full 3.5 year Great Tribulation.

So do the Demon Locust creatures not count as part of the Tribulation?

It could be but I mainly side to it being pre-tribulation events especially since they do not target Christians.

I definitely appreciate the idea that the bowls of wrath all occur simultaneously on your view.

Not simultaneously. They are poured one by one.

Lastly, where do you think the Antichrist dies? In Jerusalem or Armageddon?

Armageddon:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Douggg]

Trumpet 6 seems to have a very strong correlation to bowl 6. Both involve something happening at the river Euphrates, and both involve large amounts of troops and war. Yet, the trumpet involves cavalry that seem to be either demons or demonically inspired.
Are we seeing one battle or one war between these two judgments? Perhaps Trumpet 6 is the initial conflict that leads to Armageddon (bowl 6). Otherwise maybe they are the same exact march/battle across the Euphrates into the plain of Armageddon.

So if you believe they are not the same, how do you explain the similarities? Also, how do you explain that both the 7th bowl and seventh trumpet seem to indicate the return of the Lord?

If you believe that they are the same, do you then believe the trumpets and bowls overlap? If so, how do you explain the fact that the bowls seem to be an increased intensity compared with the trumpets?

PS: If Daniel 11:45 refers to the antichrist, how is he slain to the west of Jerusalem if the battle of Armageddon occurs to the northeast and if his forces come from the northeast?

The two are related (the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl).

Near the end of the 7 years, food and energy will be critically low because of all of the events of the great tribulation.

The beast and his kingdom of the EU, with allies in the West, i.e. the United States and Canada - will be funneling precious oil and food into their region of the world.

That will force the other three sectors of the world - the north, south, and east to come up against him (the beast) in Jerusalem in order remove him from power.

The kings of the east will head west, marching through Pakistan and India - which it appears those two nations will be nations that will be supported by the beast. At the time, the population of that region of the world will be a third of mankind - which the kings of the east will leave a blood bath in it's march toward Jerusalem.

Once the nations are drawn into the middle east, the sixth seal event takes place, and the nations will put their differences aside in fear of judgement by Jesus, unite, and will prepare to make war on Him, assembling themselves first at Armageddon*.

*It is on my chart in the lower left hand corner.

 

[Douggg]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response! I agree with the view that 7 represents completeness. I also like your view of the 7 bowls occurring simultaneously. Based on your response, I have a few clarification questions.
1) Do the 7 Seals occur concurrently?
2) Do the 7 Trumpets occur concurrently?
3) Do the trumpets occur concurrently with the Seals or Bowls?
4) Are the 7 Bowls included in the 7th Trumpet?
5) Where do you place the Abomination of Desolation?
6) Do you believe the individuals of Revelation 11:13 have the ability to be saved, and does this occur before or after the rapture?
7) What do you think the Sealing of the 144,000 means?

Sorry for just dumping all of my eschatology problems on you, but I am interested in how your view accounts for these questions.

Here are a couple of charts I made.... The seven years begin at the top of the first chart, and ends in the pictorial I made of Jesus's Return.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

Okay...I believe that this is a very popular misconception in theology, that the seven vials represent things happening in "stages" at different times, one taking place after the other. The same misconception that some have that the seven churches of Asia represent seven different periods that run one after the other. I don't believe that. The Bible does not teach this. God often uses the number seven to signify "completeness," rather than to declare something is seven particular, different things. For example the Seven Spirits of God. There are not seven spirits of God, there is ONE Spirit of God, but the number 7 signifies completeness in its ministry all over the world. And have you considered WHY do the Living Creatures in the midst of the throne have 7 eyes and 7 horns? Why are there 7 seals on the book in Revelation? Why are there 7 lamps of fire burning before the throne? Why are there 7 stars in the right hand of Christ? And so on and so forth, is because the number 7 signifies the completeness of whatever is in view. Those 7 stars in Christ's hand signified the completeness of His messengers. Likewise, the 7 vials signify the completeness of God's final judgment poured out on the earth, because of the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 21:9

• "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."

These vials were full of the seven last plagues, or the seven [eschatos] plagues, and that is why there were seven of them, to signify completeness--not to show that seven different events would take place at seven different times, taking place one after the other. We have to keep in mind, this is a revealing, a revelation, or more correctly put a group of revelations in symbolic imagery showing the same things (God's magnificent salvation and judgment program) over and over again. God says something in one chapter and will say the exact same thing, with different symbolic imagery in another chapter. Revelation is in no way chronological in its order of things revealed in imagery. For example, Christ is in the church in Revelation 2, the sealing of Israel ends in Revelation 7, and Christ is born in Revelation 12. See? It's obviously not in order.

I believe that these seven vials being poured out run concurrently. In other words, we are receiving in Revelations, seven portraits of the same event, each revealing a different aspect of what will be taking place. Much like you saw seven portraits of the Revolutionary war, each showing a different aspect of that one war, by a different picture. Or as Christ is seen as the Vine in one place to highlight one thing, the Lamb of God in another place to highlight another, and the Holy Temple to highlight still something else. It's not three separate prophesies of Christ, it's simply using different imagery to illustrate Him as the true Israel (Vine), that He is the Sacrifice (Lamb), and that He is House of God (Temple) in whom we dwell. In this same way, these seven vials are numbered to seven to signify "completion" (as the 7 churches or angels or spirits, etc.), while these judgment plagues are one judgment, the portraits concurrent. They are all one event.

Look at the pains and sores of Revelation 16:11 poured out in the 5th vial. You can see the same sores poured out in the first vial. Or as the 3rd vial poured out made the waters and rivers turn to blood, and the 2nd vial poured out on the sea had already made it turn to blood. Did God do the seas first and then go to the rivers and fountains? Not at all! It is the SAME EVENT of bringing death, but highlighting different aspects of this judgment. The plagues are operating simultaneously upon the earth and they are spoken of as seven to instruct us of the completeness of God's wrath upon them. This is the end time judgment wherein every stone of the Temple will be thrown down, the kingdom becomes void of the life of light, and this signified by blood and darkness, as there is now no healing for the torment of pain and sores. The reason is that the whole house of Israel has been sealed, the testimony of the two witnesses is finished and the day has come when no man can work. There is no repentance by them for their abominations and they continue to blasphemy because the Lord has cut them off.

Hope this helps.

Hi

I agree that the number 7 can represent completeness in the bible, but I don't understand it even being mentioned if it is not going to numerably quantify something? I can't follow the logic there, please explain

 

[Timtofly]

So would you then place the abomination of desolation/middle of the 7 years at the 6th trumpet? Or do you consider only the 3.5 years mentioned within Revelation to begin at the 6th Trumpet?
So do the Demon Locust creatures not count as part of the Tribulation?

I definitely appreciate the idea that the bowls of wrath all occur simultaneously on your view.
Lastly, where do you think the Antichrist dies? In Jerusalem or Armageddon?

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. It has to happen first. The 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders are the GT, and the Lamb and the 144k are on earth for the GT. That is why it is the GT. Satan's 42 months splits the week of the 7th Trumpet into two halves. The last half, 3.5 days are the days the 2 witnesses lay dead, and the vials are poured out on the earth.

The 7th Trumpet completes the GT. All has been accomplished. The week should not be split in half. Satan and the FP should not be allowed power and authority. Yet the church today seems to have given up, and welcomes Satan and the FP. A rather self fulfilling prophecy, because the church believes it, instead of the Great Commission. If the church fails at the Great Commission, the vineyard is given to Satan for 42 months. That is not the same time as the GT. Those 42 months split the week of the 7th Trumpet in half. The 7th Trumpet does not happen concurrently with the 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders.

The 7 vials should not happen at all. They are only for Satan and those with the mark. People only are marked, because the 42 months are past the completion announced by the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:5-7 declares those days complete and fulfill all prophecy. If the week is split in half. The 7th Trumpet cannot stop until Armageddon is resolved 42 months, 3.5 days after the week is split.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming.

The sixth seal is a coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth. It is not the coming of Jesus when He sets up His kingdom on earth.

The 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders are the GT,

The tribulation is over with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal for the gathering. Then the wrath of God begins. The 6 trumpets and 7 thunders are part of the wrath of God.

and the Lamb and the 144k are on earth for the GT. That is why it is the GT. Satan's 42 months splits the week of the 7th Trumpet into two halves. The last half, 3.5 days are the days the 2 witnesses lay dead, and the vials are poured out on the earth. The 7th Trumpet completes the GT.

The 144,000 are on earth for the GT. The GT is over at the coming of Jesus in Matt 24, which is the 6th seal in Revelation. The 7th trumpet is the end of the wrath of God. The tribulation and the wrath of God are two different time periods.

The 7 vials should not happen at all. They are only for Satan and those with the mark. People only are marked, because the 42 months are past the completion announced by the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:5-7 declares those days complete and fulfill all prophecy. If the week is split in half. The 7th Trumpet cannot stop until Armageddon is resolved 42 months, 3.5 days after the week is split.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God begins at the 1st trumpet blown by an angel and ends with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The 7 vials are just are just a different view of what happens during the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming.

How can that be the second coming when Christ remains in heaven to open the last seal?

 

[ewq1938]

The 7th trumpet is the end of the wrath of God. The tribulation and the wrath of God are two different time periods.

Why do you place the wrath of God during the Great Tribulation if they are two separate periods? The 7th trump isn't the end of the wrath of God but the beginning of it. It is when Christ comes in wrath and the vials of wrath are poured and the slaying of the two beasts and their army at Armageddon.

 

[Douggg]

Why do you place the wrath of God during the Great Tribulation if they are two separate periods? The 7th trump isn't the end of the wrath of God but the beginning of it. It is when Christ comes in wrath and the vials of wrath are poured and the slaying of the two beasts and their army at Armageddon.

The 7th angel sounds his trumpet, shorty after day 1263.5 which would be basically at the middle of the 7 years. The bowls of God's wrath are spread out across the second half of the 7 years, following the first four trumpet judgments.

See my chart below for the second half. Seals 3, 4, 5, 6 are also on the chart.

The events are arranged vertically on the chart. Start at the top and go down.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Why do you place the wrath of God during the Great Tribulation if they are two separate periods?

I am unaware that I have placed the wrath of God during the great tribulation. They are two separate time periods. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

The 7th trump isn't the end of the wrath of God but the beginning of it. It is when Christ comes in wrath and the vials of wrath are poured and the slaying of the two beasts and their army at Armageddon.

The 7th trump is the end of the wrath of God.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Armageddon has already happened before the 7th angel begins to sound the 7th trumpet. What you see in the vials of wrath is just a different view of the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

I am unaware that I have placed the wrath of God during the great tribulation. They are two separate time periods. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

Actually the 6th seal speaks about the second coming events but they are not happening at the time of the opening. That's why Christ remains in heaven opening the next seal rather than leaving to return to Earth.

The 7th trump is the end of the wrath of God.

Nope, that is when the wrath of God begins:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Armageddon has already happened before the 7th angel begins to sound the 7th trumpet.

Armageddon doesn't even happen until after the 7th trump has sounded, then the first 6 vials must pour. It is the 6th vial that makes them gather at Armageddon.

 

[Douggg]

It is the 6th vial that makes them gather at Armageddon.

The 6th vial at its beginning is the prelude to Armageddon.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

In the prelude, the nations of the north, south, and east make a joint attack on the beast in Jerusalem, and his alliance of western nations.

Those events are in Daniel 11:40-43. In Daniel 11:44, news out of the north and east trouble him - which corresponds to Euphrates being dried up as the kings of the east are coming - which their armies will have marched through Pakistan and India killing a third of the human population (the 6th trumpet event in Revelation 9).

Once on the beast's doorstep, the sixth seal event takes place, which will be the reason for the kings of the earth to stop their attack on the beast, and unite against the impending doom of Jesus executing judgement on them.

That is what causes them to gather at Armageddon - to prepare to make war on Jesus.

In Revelation 19, those armies will be destroyed by Jesus.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

which is also in Ezekiel 39:17-20

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[ewq1938]

In the prelude, the nations of the north, south, and east make a joint attack on the beast in Jerusalem, and his alliance of western nations.

There is no such attack on the beast in any NT prophecies. The only army coming to attack the two beasts and their army is Christ and his army in Revelation 19. Before that, all kings and kingdoms serve the beast and will join him at Armageddon.

 

[Douggg]

There is no such attack on the beast in any NT prophecies. The only army coming to attack the two beasts and their army is Christ and his army in Revelation 19. Before that, all kings and kingdoms serve the beast and will join him at Armageddon.

Revelation is not a stand alone book. It is the culmination of everything that went before it since creation.

Daniel 11:36 begins the time of the end events in that chapter.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation is not a stand alone book. It is the culmination of everything that went before it since creation.

Still, there is no attack upon the beast until Christ does in Revelation 19. Before that, all nations are united with the beast.

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

No one attacks the beast. Instead they all come with him to attack God's army which is a complete disaster.