Is This The True Charismatic?

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I find it very hard to believe that true Bible-believing Charismatics would accept the following is a true church worship service where the Holy Spirit is actually speaking to these people.


What do you think?
 

Saint Steven

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Maybe I should have put my post on a Joke thread!
Now that I have watched the video, I would say the presenter is ignorant about the subject and has an obvious bias against anything Charismatic or Pentecostal.
 
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Here is a video of Chris Rosebrough's "Prophecy Bingo".
As a hard-line traditional Pentecostal I am far from being offended by this. Chris has a great sense of humour, along with his friends on the video. As a matter of interest he has a Pentecostal background from the Latter Rain movement, so he doesn't trash all Pentecostals and Charismatics, but he certainly takes the mickey out of the false prophets as we see in the video. So, watch the video and have the same fun that I had when I watched it.

 
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Now that I have watched the video, I would say the presenter is ignorant about the subject and has an obvious bias against anything Charismatic or Pentecostal.
As I said in my subsequent post, Chris has a Pentecostal background. I have watched quite a few of his videos and he exposes the false prophetic but he has never featured any true Charismatic prophecy. I have viewed his expository Bible teaching in his video comments on a range of preachers, and he is very true to what the Bible actually says. He does teach against modern tongues, and I don't watch those videos because they are skewed toward cessationism. Actually being cessationist is not a threat to salvation in the same way that a Lutheran, Baptist or Charismatic are not born again more securely than each other. Bible-believing cessationists are just as converted to Christ as Bible-believing continuists or restorationists. It is all according to each one's interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:10.

If we are able to put the cessationism aside, watch the video with an open mind, we then can see the significant different between the true and false in the prophetic.

If a Pentecostal or Charismatic presented the same video as this, no true Charismatics would be offended at all. I could produce the same type of video exposing the false prophetic, as a restorationist believing in the modern day gifts of the Holy Spirit, and no one could accuse me of being a cessationist. One doesn't have to be a cessationist to call out false teachers and prophets.
 
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Is not that video 2019? Why do we care how others worship the king of kings and lord of lords? :) I know that is not how Christ ever talks about His kids.. ooh His kids.. hmm yeah not going to touch this.
I put these videos up with the intention that someone who has been deceived by these bovine scatology prophecies as being part of the Gospel leading them on the road to hell, may have their eyes opened to see the falsehood, seek the Lord through the Scriptures, find what what the true Gospel is all about, and then flee from those who are teaching and prophesying falsehood and so save themselves from the wrath to come. So, although I don't care about those who worship a false god, but I do care about the unsuspecting souls who are deceived and in danger of their own destruction by those who are lying and taking the Lord's name in vain.

Therefore, as a Reformed, Bible-believing Pentecostal who was well trained in the true prophetic in the 1970s by a faithful and godly pastor, I have decided to speak out against the false prophets that Jesus has said would come into the world, and are now here pretending to be Charismatics when they are nothing of the kind.
 
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I find it very hard to believe that true Bible-believing Charismatics would accept the following is a true church worship service where the Holy Spirit is actually speaking to these people.


What do you think?

I personally don't think much of TV ministry. But, like a lot of things of this nature, I think the criticism is harsh. Your guy isn't really refuting anything because he's just mocking it and I don't see that as serving
God or following any Biblical example that I can think of right off. I don't think anything can be corrected in this manner.

I only pick on Christians I care about. Groups that I think are really off the mark I avoid and shun which is the Biblical solution in my opinion.

There's plenty of blame to go around in Western churches. I don't think I know of any I would not criticize if I chose to go that route. What I think about is this, Peter told us that judgment will begin at the house of God and when the great persecution comes all the churches will suffer.
 
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I personally don't think much of TV ministry. But, like a lot of things of this nature, I think the criticism is harsh. Your guy isn't really refuting anything because he's just mocking it and I don't see that as serving
God or following any Biblical example that I can think of right off. I don't think anything can be corrected in this manner.

I only pick on Christians I care about. Groups that I think are really off the mark I avoid and shun which is the Biblical solution in my opinion.

There's plenty of blame to go around in Western churches. I don't think I know of any I would not criticize if I chose to go that route. What I think about is this, Peter told us that judgment will begin at the house of God and when the great persecution comes all the churches will suffer.
So Paul was wrong to call out false apostles and say that they are preaching another gospel and so are accursed, in other words, not saved?
How about 1 Timothy 5:20:
"But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning."
All the ones who are giving prophecies in these videos are taking the Lord's name in vain and are prophesying lies. Anyone who prophesies performs a leadership function and if they are doing unconfessed sin, They should be rebuked in public.
Do you think that Paul was too harshly critical here:
"Alexander the coppersmith did great harm to me. The Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 15You too should beware of him, for he has vigorously opposed our message" (1 Timothy 4:14).
And,
"holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:19-20).

Even though Chris Rosebrough uses humour to show the absolute falsehood and blasphemy of these prophesies, he has a very serious intention - to save people who are deceived by these liars, from hell, because people who support them share in their blasphemous lies and will share in the judgment and condemnation that will come to them.

By the way, Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal on Mt Carmel. Look at what he says to them:
"And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is on the toilet, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened” (1 Kings 18:27).

So mocking false prophets and teachers is absolutely Biblical. However, humour and mocking aside, the serious issue here is the difference between heaven and hell for those who are deceived and not only scammed out of their money to pay these charlatans, but they are also being scammed out of true Biblical Christianity and the hope of heaven.
 
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Saint Steven

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If we are able to put the cessationism aside, watch the video with an open mind, we then can see the significant different between the true and false in the prophetic.
Thanks for your reply.
The church in the video looks like a third aspect of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, which I (and they to some extent) call the Signs and Wonders movement.

They certainly use a broader definition of "prophecy" than the rest of us.

As with all of this stuff... Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
 
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Thanks for your reply.
The church in the video looks like a third aspect of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, which I (and they to some extent) call the Signs and Wonders movement.

They certainly use a broader definition of "prophecy" than the rest of us.

As with all of this stuff... Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
Trouble is that the bones poison the meat. It is like rat poison. 99.96% is great food for rats, but the .04% poison kills the rat stone dead. Paul says that we should totally avoid those who blaspheme, and to mark those who deviate from sound doctrine. John says in 2 John that those who profess Christianity but depart from the Gospel should not be greeted by anyone in the church, nor admitted into the fellowship of the church. The Scripture says that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. So, for that reason, false teaching and prophecy should be avoided altogether, except to warn as many people as possible to flee from it.
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul says that we should totally avoid those who blaspheme, and to mark those who deviate from sound doctrine.
There is a broad range of opinion about what constitutes "sound doctrine". Who's standard should we use?

This leads to a divisive mindset. The church across the street is a cult. And they feel the same way about you. What does this accomplish?

Do you agree with Catholic doctrine, like transubstantiation? Would you dismiss all Catholics on a doctrinal difference?
 
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Saint Steven

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Trouble is that the bones poison the meat.
You are no doubt familiar with the verse below. Isn't the expectation that not everything said by a "prophet" is of value? Would you expel from the church two of the three prophets that were unacceptable for any reason?

1 Corinthians 14:29 NIV
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
 
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There is a broad range of opinion about what constitutes "sound doctrine". Who's standard should we use?

This leads to a divisive mindset. The church across the street is a cult. And they feel the same way about you. What does this accomplish?

Do you agree with Catholic doctrine, like transubstantiation? Would you dismiss all Catholics on a doctrinal difference?
I am not talking about doctrinal differences between church denominations. There are many Catholics who are true believers in Christ.

But there is a world of difference between Churches that hold to the Nicene Creed, and Mormon/Jehovah's Witness churches. We are not being divisive if we say that Mormons and JWs are not saved, because we know they don't accept that Jesus is God, and that comes from the Arian heresy. Also, the Oneness Pentecostal movement denies the Trinity, therefore they are a pseudo-christian cult and those who belong to it are not saved. They subscribe to the Modalist heresy that God appears in three different modes.

Jesus clearly indicated that false prophets were of the Antichrist that is currently in the world. They are not inspired by the Holy Spirit, but by another spirit and through their false prophecies are presenting another gospel, and Paul quite clearly says in Galatians 3 that those who are preaching another gospel are accursed. He was not being divisive when he wrote that.

Sound Doctrine is based on accurate exegesis of what the Bible is actually saying, not eisegesis which is reading into the text theologies and opinions that the Biblical authors never said.
 
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You are no doubt familiar with the verse below. Isn't the expectation that not everything said by a "prophet" is of value? Would you expel from the church two of the three prophets that were unacceptable for any reason?

1 Corinthians 14:29 NIV
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
What we actually have is whole churches based on false teaching, and therefore the prophecies that come out of them are false also. Bad trees produce bad fruit.

A church that is based on the true Gospel of Christ and preaches the Word of God, will produce prophecies that are good. A good tree will produce good fruit. Because God does not lie and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth, prophecies motivated by the Holy Spirit will always be good.

Many false prophecies that we see on Youtube, spoken by people in their own homes, are spoken outside of a church and therefore away from elders and leaders who are able to judge them. What makes them false is not only the koo koo banana town content, but that Holy Spirit prophecy is spoken in church, according to what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 14.
 
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So Paul was wrong to call out false apostles and say that they are preaching another gospel and so are accursed, in other words, not saved?
How about 1 Timothy 5:20:
"But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning."
All the ones who are giving prophecies in these videos are taking the Lord's name in vain and are prophesying lies. Anyone who prophesies performs a leadership function and if they are doing unconfessed sin, They should be rebuked in public.
Do you think that Paul was too harshly critical here:
"Alexander the coppersmith did great harm to me. The Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 15You too should beware of him, for he has vigorously opposed our message" (1 Timothy 4:14).
And,
"holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:19-20).

Even though Chris Rosebrough uses humour to show the absolute falsehood and blasphemy of these prophesies, he has a very serious intention - to save people who are deceived by these liars, from hell, because people who support them share in their blasphemous lies and will share in the judgment and condemnation that will come to them.

By the way, Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal on Mt Carmel. Look at what he says to them:
"And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is on the toilet, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened” (1 Kings 18:27).

So mocking false prophets and teachers is absolutely Biblical. However, humour and mocking aside, the serious issue here is the difference between heaven and hell for those who are deceived and not only scammed out of their money to pay these charlatans, but they are also being scammed out of true Biblical Christianity and the hope of heaven.

Paul didn't go around mocking people and Elijah wasn't a Christian.

For the record, they used to throw rocks at people and I don't believe in that either though I have been known to joke about it.

Seriously I think you have more sense than this. I might not but I'm pretty sure you do.
 
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I find it very hard to believe that true Bible-believing Charismatics would accept the following is a true church worship service where the Holy Spirit is actually speaking to these people.


What do you think?
I've been watching Chris off and on for a long time. Sometimes I feel like I am contributing to his questionable behavior by supporting his channel and sometimes I just find myself laughing. But he does have a point albeit not really the best way to present the Cessationist view. Prophesy bingo is a hoot though.
Blessings
 
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RickReads

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I am not talking about doctrinal differences between church denominations. There are many Catholics who are true believers in Christ.

But there is a world of difference between Churches that hold to the Nicene Creed, and Mormon/Jehovah's Witness churches. We are not being divisive if we say that Mormons and JWs are not saved, because we know they don't accept that Jesus is God, and that comes from the Arian heresy. Also, the Oneness Pentecostal movement denies the Trinity, therefore they are a pseudo-christian cult and those who belong to it are not saved. They subscribe to the Modalist heresy that God appears in three different modes.

Jesus clearly indicated that false prophets were of the Antichrist that is currently in the world. They are not inspired by the Holy Spirit, but by another spirit and through their false prophecies are presenting another gospel, and Paul quite clearly says in Galatians 3 that those who are preaching another gospel are accursed. He was not being divisive when he wrote that.

Sound Doctrine is based on accurate exegesis of what the Bible is actually saying, not eisegesis which is reading into the text theologies and opinions that the Biblical authors never said.

Some Oneness Christians are confused about the Godhead just as many Trinitarians are. It's quite wrong of you to say that none of them are saved. I`d take the Pepsi challenge on that one any day of the week.
 
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