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Is this story related to the Mark of the Beast?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by BABerean2, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No, they aren’t the same.
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”
    Matthew 11:16-19


    The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.
    Matthew 12:41


    Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”
    Matthew 12:45


    And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.”
    Matthew 17:17


    Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
    Mark 8:12


    For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
    Mark 8:38


    And He answered them and said, “O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to Me!”
    Mark 9:19


    Etc.

    All of these have to do with the generation to whom He is speaking.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Let’s see what it says.


    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    Matthew 24:35-39

    I’m not seeing where He says that heaven and earth will pass away at His coming.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Not knowing the day or hour doesn’t mean that He didn’t know that it would happen within a generation. A pregnant woman doesn’t know the day or hour their child will be born, but she does know the general timeframe.
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Is he the Beast™?
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The following passage kills your form of preterism.
    Notice Christ making reference to "this generation".

    Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

    Unless you believe the men of Nineveh, and the queen of the south were resurrected from the dead during the first century, your viewpoint falls apart.

    This is a reference to the future bodily resurrection and judgment of all the dead to occur at Christ's Second Coming, as described by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1.
    See also John 5:27-30.
    It will include the generation that he spoke to during the first century.


    .
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Is there some reason that the people of Nineveh couldn’t judge that generation in the future?
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’ll throw this in for fun.


    You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
    Matthew 10:22-23
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    When did the Redeemer come to Zion, and take away sin?
    When did He fulfill the New Covenant?


    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


    Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


    Isa 59:20 "The Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," Says the LORD.

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
    Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."


    Here is a hint.
    It was before 70 AD.

    If you have any doubts read Hebrews 10:16-18.

    Once again, your form of Preterism falls apart when compared to the whole of scripture.


    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  10. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You didn’t address the verse in question.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If the verse you gave was about the redeemer coming, and all of the scripture I gave was about the redeemer coming, you appear to be in denial in an effort to make your doctrine work.

    All man-made doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.
    Your form of Preterism is an excellent example of this principle.


    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The verse in question states that they would not finish going through the cities of Israel before Christ came. Why are you overlooking that?
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    That was referring to His command for His disciples to take the Gospel to Israel, and not the Gentiles, in Matthew 10:5-7.
    Based on what Paul said in Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken to the Jews "first", until about 3 years after Calvary. Then the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles. See also Acts of the Apostles 10:36-38, and Acts of the Apostles 28:28.

    He came as the Messiah on a donkey, and as the Redeemer at Calvary, before the mission to the Jews was completed.

    The recent book "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED" by David Wilcoxson is about this seven year time period, when the Gospel was taken "first" (Romans 1:16) to the Jews.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You still are ignoring (and certainly not addressing) the clear reading of the text. Put your presuppositions aside for the moment. If you were reading Matthew for the first time, and you came across, “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes,” what would you think it meant? Just at face value?
     
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You are the one quoting Matthew 10:22-23, while trying to ignore what Christ commanded at the beginning of the same chapter in Matthew 10:5-7.

    Why are you trying to disconnect your passage from the earlier part of the chapter where Christ commanded the disciples to go through the cities of Israel?

    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
    Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
    Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
    Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
    Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
    Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
    Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
    Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
    Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
    Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
    Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
    Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
    Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
    Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
    Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
    Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

    I know what it means at face value, because I have read verses 5-7.

    .
     
  16. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’m not disconnecting it at all. He gave them instructions. Then He said that they would be persecuted. Then He said that they would not finish going through all of the cities before He retuned. Somehow you are making His return equal His entry into Jerusalem on the donkey. The grammar doesn’t fit that. Plus, when were the disciples persecuted and handed over to the courts and scourged in the synagogues? Did that happen before or after the resurrection?
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    He did not use the word "return".
    Instead, He used the word "come".

    G2064
    ἔρχομαι
    erchomai
    er'-khom-ahee
    Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ἐλεύθομαι eleuthomai or ἔλθω elthō; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.
    Total KJV occurrences: 639


    You are changing the text to make your doctrine work.


    Act 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
    Act 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

    Did the above happen during the 7 year period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews? This mission was commanded in Matthew 10:5-7.
    He came as the Messiah before the mission was completed.


    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I did use the wrong word. But it doesn’t change anything. When were the disciples persecuted and handed over to the courts and scourged in the synagogues? What that before or after His ascension?
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If you think changing the words means nothing, you are on thin ice.


    Did Christ say He would come before their mission commanded in Matthew 10:5-7 was completed?


    .
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Citizen of Covidstan. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You seem to be a bit vitriolic in your posts. It’s just a discussion. And I didn’t say that the different word didn’t mean anything. I said it doesn’t change anything. And you keep avoiding the question at hand. When were the disciples persecuted and handed over to the courts and scourged in the synagogues? What that before or after His ascension?
     
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