Is this kind of "Christian" feminism ok or am i in error?

Matt5

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"- women can vote. nothing in Word seems to forbid it- i have checked!"

Well, you might regret it. Women take over democracies because men are more split than women and more women vote for various reasons. That means the West will mostly go where women tell it to go. Now the West is unprepared for a real threat like China and/or Russia and soon enough Iran after it goes nuclear. Women want welfare, health care and education and don't care so much about military, border control and emerging threats. That works until it doesn't.
 
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Joy

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I will, however, contend with one of your statements in this otherwise appreciable response: There is something wrong with her, and other women who think like this.

I don’t believe there is something wrong with the OP and women who think like her nor do I feel the remark is kind in light of her experiences.

I responded before the admission occurred but my comment included a proviso for those reasons. Some teachings are easier to embrace when you haven’t been abused.

I’m not a feminist. But that’s easy to say when privilege and favor are in your corner. When the hardships many recount isn’t your reality. You’ve been spared.

It is easy to speak of gender roles when your purse is full and you’re not dependent. When you don’t require contribution for sustenance whether the relationship succeeds or fails.

Surrender is easy when the man is honorable and longs to provide for you without complaint. And that’s all you’ve known.

It’s easy to go against the grain when you’re comfortable and unscathed. The buffer protects you from the hardships of that choice.

While I don’t consider myself a feminist, I’ve benefited nonetheless. I value the choice. Whether that’s marriage, children or something else. For me, its purpose.

I wouldn’t sacrifice what I’ve gained for former days. I don’t want that life.

~Bella
 
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Thir7ySev3n

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I don’t believe there is something wrong with the OP and women who think like her nor do I feel the remark is kind in light of her experiences.

I responded before the admission occurred but my comment included a proviso for those reasons. Some teachings are easier to embrace when you haven’t been abused.

I’m not a feminist. But that’s easy to say when privilege and favor are in your corner. When the hardships many recount isn’t your reality. You’ve been spared.

It is easy to speak of gender roles when your purse is full and you’re not dependent. When you don’t require contribution for sustenance whether the relationship succeeds or fails.

Surrender is easy when the man is honorable and longs to provide for you without complaint. And that’s all you’ve known.

It’s easy to go against the grain when you’re comfortable and unscathed. The buffer protects you from the hardships of that choice.

While I don’t consider myself a feminist, I’ve benefited nonetheless. I value the choice. Whether that’s marriage, children or something else. For me, its purpose.

I wouldn’t sacrifice what I’ve gained for former days. I don’t want that life.

~Bella

In summary, pamper yourself if things get rough. If they're already easy, stay the course.

My wife was a physically violent psychopath who did everything from punching, breaking glass objects off of my body, pulling my hair out of my face, committing adultery continually, abandoning the home, pretending she was pregnant to try to control me, etc. etc. And all this went on for years. So no one can talk to me about not understanding hardship in continuing your role (loving your wife as Christ loved the church for me) when things get rough in every possible way. And I thank God He has brought me to the place where I wouldn't accept the advice of people's opinions rather than Scripture telling me I didn't have to endure because it's not easy.

I don't sympathize with women who abandon their role because the world accommodates their sinful appetites and doesn't require them to learn the character that comes with surrender. And all this talk about "its easy when" really reinforces the reason why. In Scripture you find the innocently suffering servant of Jesus, God in the flesh making Himself of no reputation and surrendering to His Father to the point of the cross, who taught that suffering innocently was acceptable to God and what we were called to do by Christ's example (1 Peter 2:20-24).

It seems at this point the church is going to learn the hard way. Having tried to avoid suffering in all the ways we were called, living with the pleasures of first world comforts and privileges falsely so-called, we have stopped being salt and light. Broadly, the church is weak and worldly and will become good for nothing but to be trampled under people's feet (Matthew 5:13).
 
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Junia

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Husband who puts his fists in your face because you have trouble reading directions, threatens to kill your dog by bashing his head between two bricks is justifiable divorce imo.

amen. my mother was treated like that, my sister and i also. the risk of suicide alcoholism, self harm eating disorders or even autoimmune disorders like ME/CFS of Fibro which can be linked to trauma. it is life threatening f severe or involves the threat of violence. i felel vey justified in leaving my father and livng life as a single free woman. i have suffered much, now my time is to be healed and start to enjoy my life and walk with Jesus as my "husand"
 
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Junia

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In summary, pamper yourself if things get rough. If they're already easy, stay the course.

My wife was a physically violent psychopath who did everything from punching, breaking glass objects off of my body, pulling my hair out of my face, committing adultery continually, abandoning the home, pretending she was pregnant to try to control me, etc. etc. And all this went on for years. So no one can talk to me about not understanding hardship in continuing your role (loving your wife as Christ loved the church for me) when things get rough in every possible way. And I thank God He has brought me to the place where I wouldn't accept the advice of people's opinions rather than Scripture telling me I didn't have to endure because it's not easy.

I don't sympathize with women who abandon their role because the world accommodates their sinful appetites and doesn't require them to learn the character that comes with surrender. And all this talk about "its easy when" really reinforces the reason why. In Scripture you find the innocently suffering servant of Jesus, God in the flesh making Himself of no reputation and surrendering to His Father to the point of the cross, who taught that suffering innocently was acceptable to God and what we were called to do by Christ's example (1 Peter 2:20-24).

It seems at this point the church is going to learn the hard way. Having tried to avoid suffering in all the ways we were called, living with the pleasures of first world comforts and privileges falsely so-called, we have stopped being salt and light. Broadly, the church is weak and worldly and will become good for nothing but to be trampled under people's feet (Matthew 5:13).

my dad was like your wife. my mother had a right to leave. and the whole first world thing vs third world thing doesn t,ake sense when we are al human and all have needs. how was my situation or my mother's situaation any less severe than female genital mutilation or trafficking in third world countries? it isn't. abuse is abuse. nowhere int he Bible are we encouraged to compare our sufferings with others as though it is some kind of top trumps game. instead we are to care for one another. there are many christians working to help survivors of abuse in marriage or from parents and they have no conflict with using the duluth model for DV or using psychology. tha i sbecause these things ar enot forbidden by God so there is no conflict. but you are entitled to your views, and am sorry fo rwhat you went through. bless you brother and i hope you are managing to heal from your experiences, as am i.
 
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Paidiske

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"- women can vote. nothing in Word seems to forbid it- i have checked!"

Well, you might regret it. Women take over democracies because men are more split than women and more women vote for various reasons. That means the West will mostly go where women tell it to go. Now the West is unprepared for a real threat like China and/or Russia and soon enough Iran after it goes nuclear. Women want welfare, health care and education and don't care so much about military, border control and emerging threats. That works until it doesn't.

Well, I disagree that women vote for bad policy, but there's an easy way around some of this anyway. In Australia, we have compulsory voting, so we don't have this problem of one group being better represented than another due to some just not voting.
 
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Junia

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I generally admire your posts, as they are often wise and feminine and you seem to be a very humble and beautiful soul. I will, however, contend with one of your statements in this otherwise appreciable response: There is something wrong with her, and other women who think like this.

There is one fundamental truth that is almost always missed or ignored (willingly or otherwise) when approaching biblical gender roles that instigates the arrogance of women and diminishes the resolve of men. That fundamental truth is why God created them male and female, i.e. the symbolic language communicated in the genders. The Bible is unequivocally clear that man images the glory of God, and woman the glory of man, and for that reason man was not made for woman but woman for man (1 Corinthians 11:3-9).

We are designed as actors in the theatre of the world, proclaiming the greatest story in heaven on earth until Christ comes, being a display before the world and the angels (Ephesians 3:9-11). Thus, women who are obsessed with striving for equality with the man deny themselves, and cast off the distinct glory and beauty for which God created them. Being a representative of the church, they are as disgraced as a rebellious people to God, having the same inclinations and pretended glory as Satan, who could not bear subordination. I am not saying women who struggle with this are unsaved. Rather, their struggle is one of seeing the beauty and honour in surrender, and if lost will produce for them a real dishonour in Christ's Kingdom that they feared in ignorance now. They will be disgraced when, having chosen the higher seat for themselves, Christ will move them down to the end of the table because a more distinguished woman has arrived (Luke 14:8-11).

Who are they that are distinguished in God's Kingdom? "And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all." (Mark 9:35)

And what does the Scripture say is the mind of Christ? Striving for equality, as is the carnal and childish ambition of feminism? Conversely, it says: "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Philippians 2:5-8)

To see a woman grasping at every possible opportunity for pretentious equality when God in the flesh Himself wouldn't do this, and thinking it to be a godly pursuit, is incommensurate arrogance. For those who represent the church, it is comparable in spirit to that of a cult, where the actual (i.e. not symbolic) church begins to exalt its own religion and raising its philosophies to being equal to doctrines of God. It is as a man who thinks it disgrace to be in submission to God. Yet the glory of a man is found in surrender to God, as a woman's is found in subordination to man. A perfect example of the beauty of God's people who appreciate this truth in the presence of Christ is found in Revelation 4:10-11:

"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

I long for the day when I can kneel at the feet of Christ, lay down my crown and acknowledge His greatness in absolute surrender to it. I live every day now trying to cast off all pride in His presence, because I know the utter ugliness and putridness of it and reject it as a cancer of the spirit that is only fit to be burned away. That there would be more women who would cast down their crowns and so illustrate something so lovely. But "Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies." (Proverbs 31:10)


Is it arrogant htoug for a woman to work though? what if aowman never intends to marry? surely she has to support herself somehow?

ok , am not a virtuous woman, but as am not married proverbs 31 does not apply to me. so i have to support myself somehow, pay my rent. at moment am not able to work because have been unwell so am on disability while i get treatment. but if i were able bodied i would have to work to pay my bills? a woman needs a place to live, if she is single she needs a home too. that is not arrogant.
 
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In summary, pamper yourself if things get rough. If they're already easy, stay the course.

Humans are creatures of comfort. We don’t consciously invite calamity to our door. But we weather the difficulties when they arrive.

My wife was a physically violent psychopath

I have never married or dated a man who desired to harm me. They were gentleman. My welfare was always a priority. I can imagine that was difficult to live through.

So no one can talk to me about not understanding hardship in continuing your role (loving your wife as Christ loved the church for me) when things get rough in every possible way.

But no two are the same. What one can handle would be cataclysmic for another.

And I thank God He has brought me to the place where I wouldn't accept the advice of people's opinions rather than Scripture telling me I didn't have to endure because it's not easy.

I thank God for bestowing me with wisdom and discernment and the blessing of wise counsel. It has served me well. Nevertheless, we all have trials and failures.

I don't sympathize with women who abandon their role because the world accommodates their sinful appetites and doesn't require them to learn the character that comes with surrender.

I can’t speak for others. But I don’t concern myself with outside opinions. I value feedback from trusted companions where love and mutual investment is plentiful. Why would I care if someone’s sympathy was lacking? That only matters if I need them or want something in return.

I have no jurisdiction over someone’s feelings. But I’m accountable for my response and the impact I permit.

And all this talk about "its easy when" really reinforces the reason why.

The point I implied was the ease of stating a position when you aren’t facing the consequences of the choice. I have the liberty of saying I’m not a feminist.

Because...

I’m not married. I have autonomy.
I’m my own mistress. I don’t rely on anyone for money.
I don’t have to appease a boss or co-workers.
Or fight off harassment and innuendo.

Saying the same in a different setting is another matter.

Having tried to avoid suffering in all the ways we were called, living with the pleasures of first world comforts and privileges falsely so-called, we have stopped being salt and light.

Everything under the heavens belongs to God. He dispenses the talents. It isn’t man’s domain to determine the level of gifting or blessing. Nor can he assign the measure of suffering he believes the brethren should endure. That’s His job.

~Bella
 
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Thir7ySev3n

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very true but not sure how this applied to my topic.

Censorship is the reason that post is out of place (deleted comments from both parties).

my dad was like your wife. my mother had a right to leave. and the whole first world thing vs third world thing doesn t,ake sense when we are al human and all have needs. how was my situation or my mother's situaation any less severe than female genital mutilation or trafficking in third world countries? it isn't. abuse is abuse. nowhere int he Bible are we encouraged to compare our sufferings with others as though it is some kind of top trumps game. instead we are to care for one another. there are many christians working to help survivors of abuse in marriage or from parents and they have no conflict with using the duluth model for DV or using psychology. tha i sbecause these things ar enot forbidden by God so there is no conflict. but you are entitled to your views, and am sorry fo rwhat you went through. bless you brother and i hope you are managing to heal from your experiences, as am i.

I appreciate the demeanour of this post, but I in all sincerity do not need healing, because I don't need to come to terms with what I endured. I accepted the reality based on what the Scripture said and was determined to endure. Thus, I am not harmed but rather strengthened to endure more suffering. That's what callouses are for.

Is it arrogant htoug for a woman to work though? what if aowman never intends to marry? surely she has to support herself somehow?

ok , am not a virtuous woman, but as am not married proverbs 31 does not apply to me. so i have to support myself somehow, pay my rent. at moment am not able to work because have been unwell so am on disability while i get treatment. but if i were able bodied i would have to work to pay my bills? a woman needs a place to live, if she is single she needs a home too. that is not arrogant.

A woman supporting herself out of genuine necessity is different than a woman who avoids marriage and being a keeper at home (1 Timothy 5:13-15, Titus 2:4-5) for selfish ambitions and materialism, or not having to be under a man and put their hope in God by submitting to their husbands (1 Peter 3:5-6).

Humans are creatures of comfort. We don’t consciously invite calamity to our door. But we weather the difficulties when they arrive.



I have never married or dated a man who desired to harm me. They were gentleman. My welfare was always a priority. I can imagine that was difficult to live through.



But no two are the same. What one can handle would be cataclysmic for another.



I thank God for bestowing me with wisdom and discernment and the blessing of wise counsel. It has served me well. Nevertheless, we all have trials and failures.



I can’t speak for others. But I don’t concern myself with outside opinions. I value feedback from trusted companions where love and mutual investment is plentiful. Why would I care if someone’s sympathy was lacking? That only matters if I need them or want something in return.

I have no jurisdiction over someone’s feelings. But I’m accountable for my response and the impact I permit.



The point I implied was the ease of stating a position when you aren’t facing the consequences of the choice. I have the liberty of saying I’m not a feminist.

Because...

I’m not married. I have autonomy.
I’m my own mistress. I don’t rely on anyone for money.
I don’t have to appease a boss or co-workers.
Or fight off harassment and innuendo.

Saying the same in a different setting is another matter.



Everything under the heavens belongs to God. He dispenses the talents. It isn’t man’s domain to determine the level of gifting or blessing. Nor can he assign the measure of suffering he believes the brethren should endure. That’s His job.

~Bella

I live by this principle when engaging with brothers: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Corinthians 11:1)

And what Christ is is the innocently suffering servant who calls us to endure likewise, emptying ourselves, dying to ourselves (Philippians 2:5-8, 1 Peter 2:20-24).

So while anecdotes and human philosophies are useful for propagating merely human conversation, for edification they are worthless. Encouragement that encourages weakness is not godly:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin." (Hebrews 12:2-4)

"There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." (Proverbs 21:30)
 
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bèlla

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"There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." (Proverbs 21:30)

I am where He placed me and content with my life and fate. It is well with my soul. I hope you’ve come to a similar place.

~Bella
 
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Junia

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Censorship is the reason that post is out of place (deleted comments from both parties).



I appreciate the demeanour of this post, but I in all sincerity do not need healing, because I don't need to come to terms with what I endured. I accepted the reality based on what the Scripture said and was determined to endure. Thus, I am not harmed but rather strengthened to endure more suffering. That's what callouses are for.



A woman supporting herself out of genuine necessity is different than a woman who avoids marriage and being a keeper at home (1 Timothy 5:13-15, Titus 2:4-5) for selfish ambitions and materialism, or not having to be under a man and put their hope in God by submitting to their husbands (1 Peter 3:5-6).



I live by this principle when engaging with brothers: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Corinthians 11:1)

And what Christ is is the innocently suffering servant who calls us to endure likewise, emptying ourselves, dying to ourselves (Philippians 2:5-8, 1 Peter 2:20-24).

So while anecdotes and human philosophies are useful for propagating merely human conversation, for edification they are worthless. Encouragement that encourages weakness is not godly:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin." (Hebrews 12:2-4)

"There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD." (Proverbs 21:30)


Oh ok. i should have made it clear i was talking about women like me who are not avoiding marriage or chidlren because of materialism reasons, but are just happy single. if God has a man for me, that is fine, He will bring one when am ready, but if not, am ok on my own. some women do desire husbands and childrewns though and that is great! i think it is a calling for most women but we are not in sin if we opt out. unless one is at risk of burnign with lust, then marriage is advised by Paul. as i am kinds asexual and don;t really have a drive or attraction to males or anyone, this is not an issue for me but i appreciuate most "normal " women would struggle. am not "normal." but that is ok- God had a purpose for creating me.

children would be bad idea for me for health reasons as i have mental and physical disabilities. God has shown me that He is fine with me being childfree but to be open to His healing if He chooses to give it. am fine with that. so i dont consider avoiding marriage to be a sin issue at all.

re: divorce, i do not believe any divorcee should remarry unless they set aside their partner due to infidelity. that is wht Bible says. so a woman or as man who divorces due to abuse is not allowed to remarry according to Bible. at least that is what Jesus said. i also dont believe people shpuld divorce for selfish or frivolous reasons but abuse of any kind cannot be compared to those cases. regardless of what kind of abuse it was- if it as bad enough that mental and physical health are suffering, especially if children witness it, then that is not frivolous. divorce is a painful for a child, but a child who witnesses abuse in the home will likely end up with serious Complex PTSD. there is a risk of suicide, drug abuse, even promiscuity in children who hasve suffered this. We canot expect a child to have the strength and resolve to cope with suffering the way an adult does. i believe Jesus understands that some of us are more timid and sensitive and maybe we become affected more by things than others. But He hasgreat patience with us because He is love.

i can t marry at the moment because am working through addiction recovery and mental health issues and am not able to care for and love a husband as much as he would desrve, if i do marry i want to treat him like a prince and give him what he needs to feel happy. i honeslty do not have that capacity when am trying to keep myself stable enough to stay out of the psych unit and working through very heavy therapy as well as having church ministry and deliverance. am not ready . but if Jesus wants me to be, He will do the work in me. Everything has it's time. i know peopel who have married at 50 or 60! it i sonly a rush if you want or feel a need for babies. i am blessed to be able to enjoy other peoples children without compromising my health.

so yeah, am a freak. am not normal. i am not a "virtuous" or "good" woman. i am not proud of it. but am not beating mysef up either because Jesus says once we are in Christ and follwing Him (walking in the spirit) there is NO CONDEMNATION. it has all beennailed to the cross. if i disagree with this and start acting like i am bad or shameful, am i not saying the cross of Jesus is not sufficient? we are nto told to wallow in guilt- once we repent, we need not worry about our past mistakes. we just enjoy our newness of life and follwo hard after Him.....

be blessed brother, it i s great to meet others on here who are serving Jesus, see you in heaven, bro.
 
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Junia

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Jesus never married either. I dont think staying single is a sin. 1 Corinthians 7:8 says it's better to stay single if you dont burn with lust.

agree. can i just ay i love your avatar? that is adorable!
 
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am really sorry, when i started this thread it was not in an intent to cause offence and i sm not sure whst i said that ws offensive? apologies, anyway.
 
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Humans are creatures of comfort. We don’t consciously invite calamity to our door. But we weather the difficulties when they arrive.



I have never married or dated a man who desired to harm me. They were gentleman. My welfare was always a priority. I can imagine that was difficult to live through.



But no two are the same. What one can handle would be cataclysmic for another.



I thank God for bestowing me with wisdom and discernment and the blessing of wise counsel. It has served me well. Nevertheless, we all have trials and failures.



I can’t speak for others. But I don’t concern myself with outside opinions. I value feedback from trusted companions where love and mutual investment is plentiful. Why would I care if someone’s sympathy was lacking? That only matters if I need them or want something in return.

I have no jurisdiction over someone’s feelings. But I’m accountable for my response and the impact I permit.



The point I implied was the ease of stating a position when you aren’t facing the consequences of the choice. I have the liberty of saying I’m not a feminist.

Because...

I’m not married. I have autonomy.
I’m my own mistress. I don’t rely on anyone for money.
I don’t have to appease a boss or co-workers.
Or fight off harassment and innuendo.

Saying the same in a different setting is another matter.



Everything under the heavens belongs to God. He dispenses the talents. It isn’t man’s domain to determine the level of gifting or blessing. Nor can he assign the measure of suffering he believes the brethren should endure. That’s His job.

~Bella


amen.
 
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