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Featured Is this injustice?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Apr 5, 2020.

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  1. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nothing you said here, I disagree with. However, it seems you think God depends on man's choice at that point to make his own choice concerning man before the foundation of the world. I hope I am wrong you believe that -- I do get confused as to who said what in these forums. God need not "foresee" what man will do. He doesn't wait for man's decisions before making his own. His plan does not depend on the integrity of anyone's decisions in order to accomplish what he has created. He "causes all things whatsoever shall come to pass."

    Logically, as the First Cause, God is intrinsically involved in the smallest motion or force --in fact, in the composition of them. Surely he is in total control. Nothing happens without him causing. That, however does not relegate him to our level, where he is at fault when we disobey. Our disobedience is as real as our obedience, the one being done apart from him and the other by very virtue of his indwelling us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Don’t stop.


    for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
    Romans 10:10-17

    Faith is a result of hearing.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Please don’t troll.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The choice Joshua gave them was between the gods their fathers served, or the gods of the Amorites.

    Context matters.
     
  5. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    God is long-suffering and of tender mercy, but He will not strive with man forever. If one continues to reject the Cross, he will be cut off from opportunity.

    I agree that God's plan is set and man can't change it. God knew who will be saved and who will not before He created man.

    I believe that God wants worship from man, but he wants that worship of our own free will, and not because He said so.
     
  6. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Much like the choice of gods we have, the Lord or Satan. It will be one or the other.
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Let’s say God changes someone’s heart from say, a heart of stone to a heart of flesh, and with that new heart, they freely believed? Would that be acceptable?
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Gomaristist Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You are making the verse say something it’s not saying. That’s poor hermeneutics.
     
  9. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    God will not change a heart without repentance. That is clear from scripture.

    God may cause the situation that leads to repentance but it is still mans choice.

    You're doing what all Calvinists do, trick questions that lead to, "I got ya."
     
  10. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Would be if that were all there is to it, but of course it is not; God isn't unjust but truly just.

    (Reference: Romans chapter 2 and 3 in full)
     
  11. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    I'm comparing the gods of the OT which are of Satan, to the God of the NT which is Christ.
     
  12. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The word usually translated "unto" by no means necessarily implies "results in". It can just as easily (if not more easily) mean "about" or "concerning". With the mouth confession is made concerning salvation.
     
  13. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It IS of our will, I don't know of any Calvinist or Reformer who says it is not --but it is God who makes our worship valid.
     
  14. mtatertayte

    mtatertayte Member

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    Your question is an injustice to wisdom.
     
  15. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are describing the false god of Islam
     
  16. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God wins! He always wins. The fallen had very little idea of how powerful God is. Why would God The Father reveal all of his infinite power? He would not brag or show off. Just based on Divine intervention, God The Father would only show that which He knew would end any confrontation. Something I believe to be of infinite value to the individual is their own soul. If you approach your faith based on God’s Perfect Love, you should grow. If you read the entire story surrounding the following;
    Luke.22
    1. [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


    2. Matt.18
      1. [3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven

      2. Great Power came with Peter's conversion.
      I currently believe that few understand the deep Spiritual meaning of Mathew 18:3. You also might want to read the story surrounding Number 16:29. The first mention of “visitation” can be found at the aforementioned verse. You might recall that King Saul was seen coming down the mountain with God’s prophets with Paul also prophesying.
    Mark.4
    1. [12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
     
  17. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Whatever God does is just. God is Love and God is a consuming Fire.
     
  18. mtatertayte

    mtatertayte Member

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    So you believe love is a consuming fire?
     
  19. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is the driving Saving Grace of God The Father. Learning the fear of The Lord, which is mentioned 51 times in The KJV of the Bible, is not a pleasant experience. One of the first things that Christ taught me was The Fear of The Lord. I understood what was happening to me to a lesser extent when compared to The born again experience. I understand your approach to the concept of The Fear of The Lord. When Christ spoke to me, I knew that it was Holy and Perfect and led to being born again. I don’t generally open with sharing that information because obviously someone might think your crazy. However, these experiences are in The KJV of the Bible.
    Numbers 16:29 and what surrounds the Word “visitation” I’m asking you to please read the story of those Jewish leaders that were coming after Moses and Aaron as I recall. As Shown in Isaiah 11:3, Christ was made of quick understanding in The Fear of The Lord. In Revelations 2:27, Christ was broken to shivers by God The Father. When Christ Says
    Isa.11
    1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
    Isa.11
    1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
    2. Please pray for Christ to reveal The Word Above to you.
     
  20. mtatertayte

    mtatertayte Member

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    Are you born of God?
     
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