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Is this information accurate?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hishandmaiden, Apr 8, 2002.

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  1. Hishandmaiden

    Hishandmaiden The Humble Servant Supporter

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    Lucifer was an angel, acctualy, God's favorite angel.
    Gos loved lucifer so much, that gave him the Free will gift.
    Lucifer started to look around, and noticed that the other anjels were slaves, they had no free will

    So, he ran away from heaven, to be king on the hell than slave on paradise



    This was told to me by a non christian. It bothers me.
    Is this correct? If it is correct, why do God has a favourite angel? Why don't he give the other angels free wills?
     
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  2. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    umm..not biblical from what I have read.
     
  3. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

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    According the the Fourth Lateran Council:

    "Diabolus enim et alii dæmones a Deo quidem naturâ creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali." ("the Devil and the other demons were created by God good in their nature but they by themselves have made themselves evil.")

    For more info see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

    The expression your friend may have been quoting: "Better to reign in hell than serve in Heaven" is from Milton's "Paradise Lost."
     
  4. jrmorganjr

    jrmorganjr Paladin

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    Definitely in violation of solo scriptura. Angels are a very confusing subject for me. I've read so many analyses which say that many times in the old testament the "Angel of the Lord" was actually Christ. I know the word angel actually means "messenger", but it's not clear to me how the orders of angels and all that are meant to encourage my walk. In psalms we're told that we were made a "little lower than the angels", but then in the NT we're told that after our glorification they will be our brothers or our inferiors, depending on how you read it.

    I would say that angels must all have Free Will or the very concept of Satan is invalid. I have read that Satan was originally one of the two "cherubim" pictured over the arc of the covenant, although going solo scriptura again, this is hard to justify.

    I'm weighing in with unsupported research and impressions, so please, those who have done more coherent research, weigh in and clarify.

    In Christ,
     
  5. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Since this is a Bible study question, this thread has been moved to the Work Shop.
     
  6. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
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    Isaiah has the answer to this question.

    "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

    13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;

    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

    15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

    16 "Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

    17 Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners?'

    Isaiah 14:12-17
     
  7. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    This is a misreading. That verse replies to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. The old testament does not, at any point I can see, refer to "fallen angels" or "evil angels" or anything else. Later, people started using Lucifer as a name for Satan, but the verse you cite shows no such thing.

    Read Isia 12:4, and continue. Everything here is talking to the king of Babylon, including "How art though fallen from Heaven". It's metaphor; we're talking to this earthly king who thought he was on top of the world, and he wasn't.

    As to the original question, I've heard the "better to rule in hell than serve in heaven" thing from a number of sources. The idea that Satan was a fallen angel is certainly pervasive; I can find nothing solidly against it.

    As to the question of why he didn't give the angels free will: Because they were not designed to have free will. Man, made in God's image, has free will. Angels are not like Man. They are sinless, without free will, and must simply be as they were created.

    (This does raise the troubling question of why one of them rebelled. I have no good answers. I don't think this stuff is meant to be easy.)
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Umm...was neb in heaven? Nope ;) big hint don't ya think?
     
  9. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    Ever heard of a metaphor? Ever heard someone say "Yeah, I was in heaven when I heard about the new job"?

    If you want a citation, I humbly offer _A Dictionary of Angels_, ISBN 0-02-907052-X, copyright 1967. It is an excellent and exhaustive list.

    Once again, I say: Read the whole chapter that verse is from. If this verse is addressed to Satan, where did he come into things? There was a long series of things that were unambiguously directed at a human, mortal, king. There's one verse you think is about Satan. Then we go *right back* to the verses that are clearly about this mortal king.

    I think it's a lot more believable as a metaphor than it is as a strange, brief, digression. There's lots of material to research on this. Knock yourself out. Exegesis is fun!
     
  10. chagal was here

    chagal was here jack's raging bile

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    Early Christians used the name "Lucifer" as a title for Jesus - as it means "light bringer" or "morning star"

    2 Peter1:19
    Revelation 2:28, 22:16

    Lucifer isn't Satan, but it's a name that he would certainly like to claim...
     
  11. Hishandmaiden

    Hishandmaiden The Humble Servant Supporter

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    So Angels dosn't have free wills?
     
  12. Djclljx

    Djclljx New Member

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    "Don't you know that we are to judge the angels? How much more the things of this life."
    1 Corinthians 6:3

    This verse shows that angels are in need of being judged on the Judgment Day. In that case, they aren't perfect and the do have free will.

    And again, another verse:
    "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;"
    2 Peter 2:4
     
  13. Hishandmaiden

    Hishandmaiden The Humble Servant Supporter

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    Angels will be judged?
     
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