is this a contridiction?

[Bleeding Memories]

ok. i just joined here so i dotn know how often this question has been asked, so if its a repetative one... dont jump down my throat ... ok. i was wondering if you believe that it is a possibility for someone to be both christian and gay at the same time. do you believe that someone who believes in God but chooses that lifestyle can go to heaven?? this is something i have been seriously researching lately and have found good strong backing on both sides of the issue and i was wondering what you thought...

thank you....

blessings...

ashley

 

[Mike Beidler]

Originally posted by Bleeding Memories
ok. i just joined here so i dotn know how often this question has been asked, so if its a repetative one... dont jump down my throat ... ok. i was wondering if you believe that it is a possibility for someone to be both christian and gay at the same time. do you believe that someone who believes in God but chooses that lifestyle can go to heaven?? this is something i have been seriously researching lately and have found good strong backing on both sides of the issue and i was wondering what you thought...

thank you....

blessings...

ashley

 

I highly recommend Joe Dallas' A Strong Delusion (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565074319) and James White's The Same-Sex Controversy: Defending and Clarifying the Bible's Message About Homosexuality (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764225243) for answers to your question.

 

[Didaskomenos]

This is an emotional topic, and I don't think you should allow emotions to get to you on this, even if other people who respond seem to get emotional.

Homosexuality is not normative. Physically, we were not created that way (just look at our genitals). The primary reason for sex is reproduction (just look at other species), but for humans, God graciously made it an enjoyable moment of spiritual union that parallels his intimacy with us, his bride, which gives serious implications to the importance of our differing genders in sex.

Another issue is that of the biblical witness, which unilaterally prohibits the practice of homosexuality. This does not mean that people don't really feel attracted to others of the same sex - but at very least, we must not act on those impulses. Many psychologists are now saying that while people of a certain type of genetic make-up are perhaps more predisposed to develop into homosexuals, whether they do or don't is based on psychological reasons.  The fact that there are more and more documented cases of homosexuals turning into heterosexuals is more evidence of this.

This doesn't mean it's easy!  Sure, it's just a sin that's no worse before God than lying or lust or envying or gluttony - but much harder to overcome.

Hope this helps a little!

 

[Blessed-one]

Another issue is that of the biblical witness, which unilaterally prohibits the practice of homosexuality. This does not mean that people don't really feel attracted to others of the same sex - but at very least, we must not act on those impulses.

absolutely!

This doesn't mean it's easy! Sure, it's just a sin that's no worse before God than lying or lust or envying or gluttony - but much harder to overcome.

yep, but people often give up thinking it may not matter... but it does matter. God's view point is clear, only men add on their own interpretation and rationalization to suit themselves.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by Bleeding Memories
ok. i just joined here so i dotn know how often this question has been asked, so if its a repetative one... dont jump down my throat ... ok. i was wondering if you believe that it is a possibility for someone to be both christian and gay at the same time. do you believe that someone who believes in God but chooses that lifestyle can go to heaven?? this is something i have been seriously researching lately and have found good strong backing on both sides of the issue and i was wondering what you thought...

thank you....

blessings...

ashley

 

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,<SUP> 19</SUP>because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.<SUP> 20</SUP>For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,<SUP> 21</SUP>because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.<SUP> 22</SUP>Professing to be wise, they became fools,<SUP> 23</SUP>and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
<SUP>24</SUP>Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,<SUP> 25</SUP>who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
<SUP>26</SUP>For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.<SUP> 27</SUP>Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, 1men with 1men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.


Romans&nbsp; : 1

 

[Patmosman_sga]

Homosexual practice is contrary to God's purpose for creation. He created human beings "male and female" in his image. Thus, even if Scripture were silent on the issue (which it is not), the abhorrence of this practice would be obvious from the witness of creation itself. This is an objective truth, decreed from the foundation of the world.

"Gay" activists, however, try to skirt the issue by framing it in subjective terms. "Can one be a Christian and gay at the same time?" is a misleading question. Many Christians struggle with this or that particular sin, even after justification. Old habits are hard to break, even after a life-transforming experience. Our old self still wars with our new self, seeking again to find a foothold. Those truly committed to seeking perfection, however, will rely fully on Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to deliver them out of their former state, fully and completely, to stand at last sanctified and made whole. Inevitably, there will be some stumbling along the road to wholeness, but the truly repentant heart will continue to trust in Christ and reach forward toward perfection. Those who seek to find a way to continue being unrepentantly "gay" after becoming Christian, however, are not fully relying on Christ to deliver them from their sin and, thus, are not truly seeking after the holiness without which no one will see God.

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by Didaskomenos
Homosexuality is not normative. Physically, we were not created that way (just look at our genitals). The primary reason for sex is reproduction (just look at other species), but for humans, God graciously made it an enjoyable moment of spiritual union that parallels his intimacy with us, his bride, which gives serious implications to the importance of our differing genders in sex.

I don't understand.&nbsp; First you say sex strictly a physical thing determined by proper fitting of genitals, then you refer to it as a spiritual union.&nbsp; If god says its wrong, then why does he "create" people that can only find "spiritual union" with people of the same sex?

The fact that there are more and more documented cases of homosexuals turning into heterosexuals is more evidence of this.

I don't doubt the possibility of this, but I would appreciate some kind of backing for it.&nbsp; A link?&nbsp; A report?&nbsp; Something... call it curiosity...

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Bleeding Memories
ok. i just joined here so i dotn know how often this question has been asked, so if its a repetative one... dont jump down my throat ... ok. i was wondering if you believe that it is a possibility for someone to be both christian and gay at the same time. do you believe that someone who believes in God but chooses that lifestyle can go to heaven?? this is something i have been seriously researching lately and have found good strong backing on both sides of the issue and i was wondering what you thought...
thank you....
blessings...
ashley

Just be gay then repent on your deathbed.

 

[Gunny]

R.A., My God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. There is no where in the Holy Bible where homosexuality is acceptable to God. Homosexuality is sexual sin, as is
other sexual sin as described in God's Word.

Yep, I know, there ain't no God, Bible is fables and sin doesn't exist, at least for the atheist this holds true.


GySgt James

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
R.A., My God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. There is no where in the Holy Bible where homosexuality is acceptable to God. Homosexuality is sexual sin, as is
other sexual sin as described in God's Word.

is there anything in there about homosexuals existing, though?&nbsp;As has already been mentioned, homos can't help how they are, thus it would seem your god is responsible for how they are.&nbsp; I mean, is there a Christian reason for why homos are HERE?&nbsp; Other than to go to hell, apparently...

Yep, I know, there ain't no God, Bible is fables and sin doesn't exist, at least for the atheist this holds true.

yeah, but sometimes I pretend for the sake of debate...

 

[SimpleChristian]

bleeding....this question can be answered, by believers, using what we know of God from Scriptures, and just a little bit of common sense.

First...if you are a believer, then you believe that God creates all life.

Second, if you are a believer, then you know that God, in His word (throughout both the Old and New testaments) says that homosexuality is a sin. Plain and simple, no ifs ands or buts about it.

So...for a believer to say that homosexuality is ok is really not possible or logical. If you hold that it is, then you are saying that BOTH of the above statments would HAVE to be true (this is for the cases of believers, not non-believers....note there is a difference).

If BOTH of those statements are true, then you would be saying that God is some sort of cosmic, sadistic monster who creates people with impulses that He says can never be righteously fulfilled. Follow me? So, if you are a believer, the case is pretty much closed.

However, keep in mind that you CANNOT put homosexuality is some sort of special 'sin' class....there are also many scriptures speaking out against heterosexual sex when engaged in 'unholy' forms.

If you are speaking in the scientific genre....well, there has NEVER been one single piece of scientific evidence to support homosexuality as an 'innate' characteristic. The one study that so many people want to go back to involves a study done on cadavers, half of whom were homosexual, and ALL of the homosexuals had died of AIDS. The homosexual doctor who did the study found that part of the brain of the homosexuals was slightly bigger then the same part on heterosexuals. The problem with this unscientific 'study' is that the doctor had no idea WHY or HOW this area was bigger...only that it was. He could not say if this area was bigger as a RESULT of homosexuality (or AIDS for that matter) if is this area was the cause of the homosexuality. Basically the whole 'study' was worth no more then a roll of toilet tissue.

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by SimpleChristian
First...if you are a believer, then you believe that God creates all life.

Second, if you are a believer, then you know that God, in His word (throughout both the Old and New testaments) says that homosexuality is a sin. Plain and simple, no ifs ands or buts about it.

ok... Im following...

If BOTH of those statements are true, then you would be saying that God is some sort of cosmic, sadistic monster who creates people with impulses that He says can never be righteously fulfilled.&nbsp;

hah... you said it, not me...

If you are speaking in the scientific genre....well, there has NEVER been one single piece of scientific evidence to support homosexuality as an 'innate' characteristic. The one study that so many people want to go back to involves a study done on cadavers, half of whom were homosexual, and ALL of the homosexuals had died of AIDS. The homosexual doctor who did the study found that part of the brain of the homosexuals was slightly bigger then the same part on heterosexuals. The problem with this unscientific 'study' is that the doctor had no idea WHY or HOW this area was bigger...only that it was. He could not say if this area was bigger as a RESULT of homosexuality (or AIDS for that matter) if is this area was the cause of the homosexuality. Basically the whole 'study' was worth no more then a roll of toilet tissue.

I admittedly don't know much about the causes of homosexuality.&nbsp; Care to provide me with some references?

 

[Thunderchild]

Homosexuality does result from a genetic pre-disposition in many cases - not all, not even a majority.

Leaving aside those who choose homosexuality, there are still a substantial number of people who (in effect) cannot choose heterosexuality. Perhaps a case could be made that these were not intended to be caught in the net of the Biblical prohibition. On that I have no information - but it seems to be a legitimate plea. Meantime, unless compelling evidence to the contrary comes to hand, I will assume that upon repentance and baptism, a person would be cured of this particular genetic aberration. (It is after all, only a very small malfunction of just one gene.)

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Meantime, unless compelling evidence to the contrary comes to hand, I will assume that upon repentance and baptism, a person would be cured of this particular genetic aberration. (It is after all, only a very small malfunction of just one gene.)

Good post, but I fail to see how baptism can change your genetics... of course, Im also the guy who thinks peeing in the holy water is funny, so...

 

[OldBadfish]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Homosexuality does result from a genetic pre-disposition in many cases - not all, not even a majority.&nbsp;

I definitely don't buy this at all, if there is solid evidence (which I don't believe there is any) of this being genetic, it is a result of another incestial abomination or something.

I do not believe it is genetic, if I'm right, homosexuality has no leg to stand on and is an abomination, just like it is described in the bible.

It is a product of corrupted society and misguided worldly moral systems.

&nbsp;It is a weakness that can be overcome with God

 

[SimpleChristian]

Please someone point out to me the scientific proof that shows that homosexuality is a genetic trait?

Oh...I forgot....that doesn't exist.

bty....if homosexuality is 'genetic' and therefore acceptable because of this....then that HAS to mean that ALL forms of sexuality is 'genetic' and therefore acceptable. So we need to stop persecuting all of the rapist, pedophiles, necrophiles...those who like inappropriate behavior with animals (unless, of course, the farm animals vocally protest....)...those who want to be married to multiple woman (which still boggles me...why would any man want stereophonic nagging??? )

If ONE sexual difference is 'genetic' that means that ALL sexual differences HAVE to be the same. So why is no one out there tramping for the rights of the pedophiles or necrophiles or bestialphiles (yep, made that word up!)???

 

[Didaskomenos]

Raging,

See Dr. James Dobson's book, Bringing Up Boys. He compiles some interesting research that will help explain the causes and treatment of homosexuality. That's the best source I can give you.

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by SimpleChristian

bty....if homosexuality is 'genetic' and therefore acceptable because of this....then that HAS to mean that ALL forms of sexuality is 'genetic' and therefore acceptable. So we need to stop persecuting all of the rapist, pedophiles, necrophiles...those who like inappropriate behavior with animals (unless, of course, the farm animals vocally protest....)...those who want to be married to multiple woman (which still boggles me...why would any man want stereophonic nagging??? )

If ONE sexual difference is 'genetic' that means that ALL sexual differences HAVE to be the same. So why is no one out there tramping for the rights of the pedophiles or necrophiles or bestialphiles (yep, made that word up!)???

Don't ever associate rape with sexuality.&nbsp; That is a dangerous fallacy: rape is about power.&nbsp; I peer-counsel rape and sexual assault survivors and there is nothing "sexual" about.&nbsp; I strongly suggest you educate yourself before you say anything else that screams ignorance of real-world tragedies.&nbsp; Regarding the fetishes you mentioned, I don't know.

 

[Didaskomenos]

Whether you like the human urge for "power" is irrelevant, and getting emotional is not going to help. The abuse of power (and often, the hunger for sex) evident in rape is a psychological problem that results in criminal behavior. Homosexuality in males (I don't know anything about females) is also a response (Christians call it sinful, albeit much less immediately tragic and harmful than rape) to one or more psychological problems, including the absence of a good father figure and excessive interdependence between mother and son. So in that sense (psychological problems manifesting in aberrant behavior), rape and homosexuality are similar. I will say that I'd rather someone be a homosexual than a rapist, because of the effects on other people.

 

[Stormy]

Tell me why are there so many threads about gay Christians?

Are you all gay Christians?

Or do you just enjoy throwing stones?

If a person says they are a Christian and are gay. Do you know what I see? A sinner!

If another person says they are a Christian and is in a beautiful marriage with his wife. Do you know what I see? A sinner!

We all have sins... and fall short of the glory of God.