Is there such thing as a Creationist who knows what evolution is?

LorentzHA

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pentecostal girl said:
I know what it is and I understand it. I took ap biology last year and we had an indepth study of evolution. Afterwards we had a debare about it. There are two differect types of evolution. Which type are you talking about it? Micro or Macro?:cool:
Afterwards you had a debate about it???? hmmm...I have a degree in Biology and have taken everything from Biology 101 to Genetics to Microbiology, Paracytology etc. etc. recently, Histology, Immunology, and I cannot remember EVER having even one debate after any Biology based class(scratching head). All of Biology is based on evolution with reams of supporting data.

So where exactly in the Bible Belt is your school located?:scratch:
 
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wblastyn

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pentecostal girl said:
I know what it is and I understand it. I took ap biology last year and we had an indepth study of evolution. Afterwards we had a debare about it. There are two differect types of evolution. Which type are you talking about it? Micro or Macro?:cool:
You probably only scratched the surface. The fact you think there are two different "types" of evolution supports this.

Another thing is science is not a debate, debates only tell us who the best debater is, not what the truth is. Evolution does happen.
 
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LorentzHA

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Pentacostal Girl said:
I know what it is and I understand it.
If you, "know what it is" and "understand it", then you where one of the one debating on the side for it, correct? ( Since there is reams of hard data supporting it and tangiable objects to study)

So the ones debating against it, after taking what you called an "in depth class" must have ignored what they learned and were debating on pure emotion, correct? Did you find it hard not to laugh at them or wonder if they had fallen asleep during your "in depth class"????
 
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Data

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pentecostal girl said:
I know what it is and I understand it. I took ap biology last year and we had an indepth study of evolution. Afterwards we had a debare debate about it. There are two differect different types of evolution. Which type are you talking about it? Micro or Macro? :cool:
Er.. Micro and Macro? Although it's used by scientists, 'micro' and 'macro' is only used heaviliy by creationists. It sounds like you 'learned' about evolution.
 
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pentecostal girl

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In your studies, what separates Micro from Macro?
MicroEvolution is not really evolution at all. It is the simple variation within a species. It is the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. It allows a family to have one child with blonde hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes.



Macro Evolution (Evolution of all living matter from non living matter) is:
Assumed. It has never been observed
Macro Evolution is Religious in nature. It takes faith to believe it, because there is No evidence.
Macro Evolution is not Biblical Macro Evolution has never happened. It differs from Micro evolution (variation) because Micro evolution states that all breeds of dog came from a dog. Macroevolution says that all dogs evolved from a rock.

 
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pentecostal girl

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LorentzHA said:
If you, "know what it is" and "understand it", then you where one of the one debating on the side for it, correct? ( Since there is reams of hard data supporting it and tangiable objects to study)

So the ones debating against it, after taking what you called an "in depth class" must have ignored what they learned and were debating on pure emotion, correct? Did you find it hard not to laugh at them or wonder if they had fallen asleep during your "in depth class"????
Actually I was on the creationist side, first of all evolution has been around for years and has yet to be proven. I think it takes more to believe in evolution then just to say that God created us in the image of him.
 
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pentecostal girl

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LorentzHA said:
Afterwards you had a debate about it???? hmmm...I have a degree in Biology and have taken everything from Biology 101 to Genetics to Microbiology, Paracytology etc. etc. recently, Histology, Immunology, and I cannot remember EVER having even one debate after any Biology based class(scratching head). All of Biology is based on evolution with reams of supporting data.

So where exactly in the Bible Belt is your school located?:scratch:
Yes we had a few weeks to study both sides. It was creation vs. evolution debate, we couldn't use the bible to back us up, we had to use scientific facts to prove the Darwin theory was wrong. My biology teacher was a creationist is even a creationist! hope God keeps blessing over and over again.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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pentecostal girl said:

MicroEvolution is not really evolution at all. It is the simple variation within a species. It is the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. It allows a family to have one child with blonde hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes.



Macro Evolution (Evolution of all living matter from non living matter) is:
Assumed. It has never been observed
Macro Evolution is Religious in nature. It takes faith to believe it, because there is No evidence.
Macro Evolution is not Biblical Macro Evolution has never happened. It differs from Micro evolution (variation) because Micro evolution states that all breeds of dog came from a dog. Macroevolution says that all dogs evolved from a rock.

Oh my no. Your definition of "micro" evolution is more or less correct. It is genetic variation (evolution) within a species.

Your definition of "macro" evolution is completely wrong. "Macro" evolution is evolution between species (or more to the point, new species evolving from old species). And it, too, has been observed.

The origin of life from non-life is called abiogenesis, for which there is a variety of experimental evidence (look up the work done by Sydney Fox, for example).
 
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F

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pentecostal girl said:
Yes we had a few weeks to study both sides. It was creation vs. evolution debate, we couldn't use the bible to back us up, we had to use scientific facts to prove the Darwin theory was wrong. My biology teacher was a creationist is even a creationist! hope God keeps blessing over and over again.

You BIOLOGY teacher is a creationist? Where did he get his degree? In my state public educators need at least a masters in their relevant field, it might be different where you are.

*wonders why America scores poorly educationally compared to other countries*
 
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armed2010

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pentecostal girl said:
Actually I was on the creationist side, first of all evolution has been around for years and has yet to be proven. I think it takes more to believe in evolution then just to say that God created us in the image of him.
Evolution itself is already accepted because of the gradual change seen through fossils and such. The only thing that isnt completely concrete, essentialy the "theory" part, is exactly HOW we evolve. Scientists know that evolution itself happens, its merely the exact process thats researched. The theory of evolution infact is more concrete than the theory of gravity, since we know more about the workings behind evolution than we do gravity, interesting eh? :D
 
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J

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pentecostal girl said:

MicroEvolution is not really evolution at all. It is the simple variation within a species. It is the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. It allows a family to have one child with blonde hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes.
Macro Evolution (Evolution of all living matter from non living matter) is:
Assumed. It has never been observed
Macro Evolution is Religious in nature. It takes faith to believe it, because there is No evidence.
Macro Evolution is not Biblical Macro Evolution has never happened. It differs from Micro evolution (variation) because Micro evolution states that all breeds of dog came from a dog. Macroevolution says that all dogs evolved from a rock.
I am sorry to tell you, but you haven't been very well educated in this regard. I am not criticising you, I am criticising your teacher, or whoever told you that, because it is not correct.

In reality there is just one type of (biological) evolution. In essence Evolution consists of descent with modification and natural selection as a selecting force. the parent(s) have children that vary, and some of these variations will be advantageous, some will not. the ones with the advantageous phenotype (as in their physicsl attributes) will be more likely to breed. There are a number of mechanisms that allow this variation in offspring. Allele frequency is one of them that you have already mentioned, another is mutations in the sex cells. These mutations or allele frquencies are known as the genotype of the organism, and will be expressed in it's final phenotype. Macroevolution is simply lots and lots of microevolution.

you description of macroevolution is what is more commonly known as a strawman argument. A strawman is a weak and incorrect version of the opponents real argument, which is easy to demolish. One then attacks the strawman, demonstrates that it is wrong, and then claims that the real argument is wrong too, however it does not work.
The origin of life from "non-life" is called abiogenesis, and has nothing to do with evolution, it is simply an issue of origin. Indeed it never has been observed, but there are a number of mechanisms that could have caused it, and these are known.

Now onto your example regarding dogs. It is true that all breeds of dog will produce dogs, however not nescessarily come from a dog. Dogs are a member of the order Carnivorae, which used to consist of animals like the Mesonyx, which is a primitive and now extinct carnivore. All the decendents of Mesonyx will be members of the order carnivorae. however not all of them will be like the mesonyx - some will be slightly better adapted to certain tasks, and hence we have the sub orders Feliformia (cats, hyenas and so on) and Caniformia (dogs, bears, otters etc) and these orders will be further subdivided as you can see. Each generation will inherit characteristics of the previous one, and have some slightly different ones, and hence over time mesonyx can evolve into all the carnivorae we see today. Of course a member of the carnivorae order will never give birth to a member of the primate order, and this is entirely expected, however carnivorae and primates share features of the mammalia. So it is true that canines will always give birth to canines, but you cannot extrapolate that same rule backwards in time too.
You then mention that a dog will never evolve from a rock. Again you are including abiogenesis here, and that is not relevant. You see the processes of abiogenesis are very different to the processes of evolution. When one looks at evolution, one can discuss chromosome mutations, frame shifts, alleles and a myriad of other things, so it is best to keep these topics separate. Evolution does not really care about how life came about (you can see this since you accept evoltion already, though you call it microevolution) The changes in allele frequencies and mutations and so on do not relate at all to how these things came about.

So sorry that your educators have not served you well, I hope that you are interested and willing to learn the real things, rather than the strawmen which you currently know about.
 
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Modus

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Captain Jackson said:
Is there such a thing as a Creationist who wants to know what evolution is?
I actually would love to learn about it. If you guys are willing to teach me about it, I am all ears. I'm going to start a new thread about it.
 
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Meatros

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pentecostal girl said:
MicroEvolution is not really evolution at all. It is the simple variation within a species. It is the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. It allows a family to have one child with blonde hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes.

:scratch:

Where are you learning this silliness? Microevolution isn't evolution??

Oh, your teacher was a creationist. Now the picture is becoming clear. You realize you are just adding support to the OP, right?


pentecostal girl said:
Macro Evolution (Evolution of all living matter from non living matter) is:
Assumed. It has never been observed
Macro Evolution is Religious in nature. It takes faith to believe it, because there is No evidence.
Macro Evolution is not Biblical Macro Evolution has never happened. It differs from Micro evolution (variation) because Micro evolution states that all breeds of dog came from a dog. Macroevolution says that all dogs evolved from a rock.
Religious? Never been observed? Biblical Macro? Dogs evolved from a rock?

No offense, but WHAT ARE YOU BABBLING ABOUT?? Who is your teacher-Kent Hovind???? You should pick up a book on biology, by someone who knows what they are talking about. It seems that your education is a sad thing, you are going to get to college completely unprepared for entry level biology.
 
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bevets

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Meatros said:
Where are you learning this silliness? Microevolution isn't evolution??
The central question of the Chicago conference was whether the mechanisms underlying microevolution can be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear No. ~ Roger Lewin
 
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revolutio

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bevets said:
The central question of the Chicago conference was whether the mechanisms underlying microevolution can be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear No. ~ Roger Lewin
Opinionated unsubstantiated quotes != evidence
 
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Mike Flynn

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bevets said:
The central question of the Chicago conference was whether the mechanisms underlying microevolution can be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear No. ~ Roger Lewin
Can you please provide us with the data that substantiates these claims bevets?

Show us that you are hear to learn more about these issues through a healthy debate about the data. Show us that you are not simply here to post unsubstatiated, or out-of-context quotes.

Until you show us that you have some credibility, why should anyone take your quote-mine as credible?
 
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