Is there salvation in Mary?

[Wolf_Says]

Don't Catholics do the same thing when they claim to exclusively be the one true Church? Aren't they insulting non-Catholic Christians in doing so? No, Catholicism is not the "one truth Church"? Go ahead report me. And I will report you.

That is gunny, but your wrong. We dont call other Christain groups not Christians. Your trying to justify your attacks and it wont work.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Don't Catholics do the same thing when they claim to exclusively be the one true Church? Aren't they insulting non-Catholic Christians in doing so? No, Catholicism is not the "one truth Church"? Go ahead report me. And I will report you.

I am not reporting you. The First Church of Christianity was what later came to be called the the Catholic/Orthodox Church. Both Catholics and Orthodox Christians call their Churches the "one true Church," because we are the mother Church. It wasn't until Luther and Calvin came along that there was thought to be a need for reformation.

Yes, I will admit that the Roman Catholic Church has done some silly things, some downright stupid, and others sinful. But it has NEVER been the official teaching of the Church that the only way to get souls out of Purgatory is to make big donations to the Church. Oh, I know some Popes have been rotten. However, there are some saints among them too. All have fallen and need God's grace to stand up.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Salvation can only come via God. Mary, Our Holy Mother, intercedes for us to Her Holy Son.

Where do you see this in the Bible? It is NOT there..Mary was a mortal person...
Jesus is our intercessor John 14.6 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by me"...

 

[David_AB]

Where do you see this in the Bible? It is NOT there..Mary was a mortal person...
Jesus is our intercessor John 14.6 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by me"...

I couldn't agree more. It's unbiblical.
Similar to necromancy.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I couldn't agree more. It's unbiblical.
Similar to necromancy.

It took me quite a while to understand the Catholic mindset on this essential dogma of theirs. Whether or not it is biblical is not an issue at all with them as they either are genuinely illiiterate when it comes to the Bible or, if they do understand biblical teaching, it comes in a distant second place to what the Church has declared. In this case, the Catholic Church is quite dogmatic and that is all that matters to a faithful Catholic.

 

[Alithis]

It took me quite a while to understand the Catholic mindset on this essential dogma of theirs. Whether or not it is biblical is not an issue at all with them as they either are genuinely illiiterate when it comes to the Bible or, if they do understand biblical teaching, it comes in a distant second place to what the Church has declared. In this case, the Catholic Church is quite dogmatic and that is all that matters to a faithful Catholic.

Being faithful to a denomination does not save any one.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Being faithful to a denomination does not save any one.

That is the truth! However, Catholics will argue until they are blue in the face that their Church is not a denomination.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

Saints quotes on the Blessed Virgin Mary


”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

All I can say is it looks pretty grim spiritually for the Catholics should they believe this!
Mary was human, a human called blessed by God, why? Because she was to bear the Christ child, Savior of the world.
To elevate Mary is to make her equal with God and to take glory from His great name.
It is written that after the fall Adam named the woman, Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. That was to say that sin now entered the world and no one would escape being born in sin, no not one. Therefore, to say Mary had no sin is extra-Biblical and false and to say Mary was not born human is to enter into yet another dimension of unrecorded doctrine which one would rightly label heresy. To claim Mary to be sinless and from some unknown existence or state of being is to blaspheme God because you would thus have elevated here to the status of Jesus. However, Scripture tells us only His blood was a worthy sacrifice for sin, only He was found worthy as stated in the book of Revelation and elsewhere. Read your way out of it dear Catholics!

 

[Gabriel Anton]

”There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All-Grace!”
--Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Patriarch of Constantinople

Saints quotes on the Blessed Virgin Mary


”It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.”
--Saint Anselm, Archbishop and Doctor of the Church

”Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
--Saint Bonaventure, Cardinal-Bishop and Doctor of the Church

”We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.”
--Saint Cajetan, Founder of the Theatines

Peace be with you.


Is there salvation in Mary?

Yes, because in Mary is Jesus Christ, Redeemer and Saviour of Mankind.


You can add St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montford to the list. This is what he wrote in one of his books:

30. Just as in natural and bodily generation there is a father and a mother, so in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary. All true children of God have God for their father and Mary for their mother; anyone who does not have Mary for his mother, does not have God for his father. This is why the reprobate, such as heretics and schismatics, who hate, despise or ignore the Blessed Virgin, do not have God for their father though they arrogantly claim they have, because they do not have Mary for their mother. Indeed if they had her for their mother they would love and honour her as good and true children naturally love and honour the mother who gave them life.

An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God's true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.


God bless you.

 

[David_AB]

Yes, because in Mary is Jesus Christ, Redeemer and Saviour of Mankind.

St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montford did not write the Bible. It is what is in the Bible that counts.
I would ask you to show where the Bible says Jesus Christ is in Mary.
That would no longer be a trinity.

 

[mea kulpa]

I posted this in another thread. I have never read it before and i dont know if any saints or the church has explored this in anyway.. (if anyone knows please let me know)... i.e this is my personal understanding of scripture and has absolutly no authority it could contain many errors and probably will but it is beautifull non the less

I was reflecting on the magnificat of our lady when my mind for some unknown reason... inspired or not i was drawn to our lords words

"unless you are born of the spirit you can not see the kingdom of God."

Our Lord himself was born of the spirit

"The spirit of the lord shall overshadow thee"

The angel gabrial announced to Our Lady.

If we are born again in the spirit the spirit will bring us to christ through the overshaddowing of our lady and as we pass through her.. her soul doth magnify the lord for us and we can see the kingdom of God

Our lord is the offspring of Our Lady in the book of genesis but we are her OTHER offspring in the book of revelation

 

[jerry kelso]

I posted this in another thread. I have never read it before and i dont know if any saints or the church has explored this in anyway.. (if anyone knows please let me know)... i.e this is my personal understanding of scripture and has absolutly no authority it could contain many errors and probably will but it is beautifull non the less

I was reflecting on the magnificat of our lady when my mind for some unknown reason... inspired or not i was drawn to our lords words

"unless you are born of the spirit you can not see the kingdom of God."

Our Lord himself was born of the spirit

"The spirit of the lord shall overshadow thee"

The angel gabrial announced to Our Lady.

If we are born again in the spirit the spirit will bring us to christ through the overshaddowing of our lady and as we pass through her.. her soul doth magnify the lord for us and we can see the kingdom of God

Our lord is the offspring of Our Lady in the book of genesis but we are her OTHER offspring in the book of revelation

mea kulpa,

1. Mary was a wonderful believer that she believed the angel giving the message from God.

2. She was a wonderful lady to endear all the criticism of people being a pregnated virgin woman.

3. She was a wonderful lady to endure ridicule and speculation of how the Holy the immaculate conception could even happen.

4. She was a wonderful lady just of the fact of Jesus being the chosen Messiah and that she played a part in Messiah' s birth who would redeem all mankind and who will rescue Israel from total destruction in the last days.

5. There is nowhere that scripture says or implies that we are brought to Christ through the overshadowing of Mary or passing through her or anything in conjunction with receiving salvation.

6. Genesis 3:15 is the Messianic prophecy of the seed of Mary and defeat of Satan at the Cross.
Revelation 12; The Sun Clothed Woman is Israel and not the Church it is Israel that has to be purged of sin called Jacob's trouble in the tribulation Jeremiah 30:5-8, Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1; Matthew 24-15-21; Revelation 12. Jerry kelso

 

[mea kulpa]

mea kulpa,

1. Mary was a wonderful believer that she believed the angel giving the message from God.

2. She was a wonderful lady to endear all the criticism of people being a pregnated virgin woman.

3. She was a wonderful lady to endure ridicule and speculation of how the Holy the immaculate conception could even happen.

4. She was a wonderful lady just of the fact of Jesus being the chosen Messiah and that she played a part in Messiah' s birth who would redeem all mankind and who will rescue Israel from total destruction in the last days.

5. There is nowhere that scripture says or implies that we are brought to Christ through the overshadowing of Mary or passing through her or anything in conjunction with receiving salvation.

6. Genesis 3:15 is the Messianic prophecy of the seed of Mary and defeat of Satan at the Cross.
Revelation 12; The Sun Clothed Woman is Israel and not the Church it is Israel that has to be purged of sin called Jacob's trouble in the tribulation Jeremiah 30:5-8, Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1; Matthew 24-15-21; Revelation 12. Jerry kelso

The church is the new jerusalem and we are the new isreal other than that i see no connection between my post and yours

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I posted this in another thread. I have never read it before and i dont know if any saints or the church has explored this in anyway.. (if anyone knows please let me know)... i.e this is my personal understanding of scripture and has absolutly no authority it could contain many errors and probably will but it is beautifull non the less

I was reflecting on the magnificat of our lady when my mind for some unknown reason... inspired or not i was drawn to our lords words

"unless you are born of the spirit you can not see the kingdom of God."

Our Lord himself was born of the spirit

"The spirit of the lord shall overshadow thee"

The angel gabrial announced to Our Lady.

If we are born again in the spirit the spirit will bring us to christ through the overshaddowing of our lady and as we pass through her.. her soul doth magnify the lord for us and we can see the kingdom of God

Our lord is the offspring of Our Lady in the book of genesis but we are her OTHER offspring in the book of revelation

Our Lord ALWAYS was and is and is to come. Mary was. That is because Mary was human as us. Jesus received His human nature from Mary and His God-nature from the Holy Spirit. If Mary were not fully human with a sinful nature redemption according to the plan Scripture lays out for us could not have been accomplished.
Hebrews 2:14-18:
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

 

[mea kulpa]

Our Lord ALWAYS was and is and is to come. Mary was. That is because Mary was human as us. Jesus received His human nature from Mary and His God-nature from the Holy Spirit. If Mary were not fully human with a sinful nature redemption according to the plan Scripture lays out for us could not have been accomplished.
Hebrews 2:14-18:
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

I fail to understand what this has to do with my post

 

[mea kulpa]

If our lady was the gate through which christ entered the world then surely our lady is the gate through which we enter into christ who is the gate to the father

 

[throughfiierytrial]

If our lady was the gate through which christ entered the world then surely our lady is the gate through which we enter into christ who is the gate to the father

OK, I'll explain why I posted what I did...
You said this in your post, I copy/paste here:
f we are born again in the spirit the spirit will bring us to christ through the overshaddowing of our lady and as we pass through her.. her soul doth magnify the lord for us and we can see the kingdom of God

This is not Biblical (where do you think you find that?) therefore I hoped to clarify the situation for you so as to allow you to read the Scriptures for what they say.
We are born from above it says, no mention of being over-shadowed by Mary. The born again experience is between us and God...no Mary in that equation.

 

[mea kulpa]

Bible references

My soul doth MAGNIFY the Lord

Unless your are born again of the spirit you can not see the kingdom of God

The holy spirit will overshadow you

I will put emnity between your offspring and hers

The dragon went off to make war against the rest of her offspring

Its is very biblical

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Bible references

My soul doth MAGNIFY the Lord

Unless your are born again of the spirit you can not see the kingdom of God

The holy spirit will overshadow you

I will put emnity between your offspring and hers

The dragon went off to make war against the rest of her offspring

Its is very biblical

We cannot discuss meaningfully if you do not address your first comment which I quoted for you. We are born from above...all human believers are born from above as was Mary.
Now I can address this post, but I don't truly know where you stand on the other yet. We are not over-shadowed by Mary...she has no such power. Over-shadowing was power of the Holy Spirit who gave birth to Jesus.
The Genesis 3:15 is speaking of the coming Christ, the enmity between Satan and man...He defeated Satan...this was spoken to Eve as you know...not Mary...and it applies to all mankind.

 

[jerry kelso]

The church is the new jerusalem and we are the new isreal other than that i see no connection between my post and yours

mea kulpa,

1. What scripture are you basing the church being the New Jerusalem on?

2. Galatians 4:22-25; is about the allegory of the Old Covenant at Sinai and the New Covenant of the Jerusalem from above which free and which is the mother of us all.
This just means that salvation is from God above where Christ rules from for souls that are saved.
Christians are not the physical Jerusalem in this passage.

3. Hebrews 12:22; but ye are come unto Mt. Sion and unto the city of the living God, the Heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerable company of angels. Some use this but it says no thing. It speaks of the physical city of Jerusalem.

4. Revelation 21:2; And I John saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem coming down from God out of Heaven prepared as a bride adored for her husband.
This is the physical Holy City coming down. Prepared as a bride adorned from her husband is the occupants living inside who are the saints.
21:10; the great city, the physical Holy Jerusalem descends out of Heaven from God.

5. Revelation 21:10-26 is all about the physical Heavenly Jerusalem.
It is addressed to the lambs wife which are the heavenly saints which will be at the Marriage of the Lamb.

6. Romans 2:17-24 talks about the physical spiritual Jews are those Jews who are saved not physical Jews who don't believe.
Verse 25; circumcision profited Jews that kept the law. If the Jews broke the law their physical circumcision is made uncircumcision which is sin. This is because if you keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all James 2:10.

7. Verse 26; if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keeper has the righteousness of the law shall not his uncircumcision be counted for Circumcision which was a sign of the covenant of law a shadow of salvation.

8. Acts 10:34-35 shows God is no respecter of persons and will accept anyone that worketh righteousness. This context was about Cornelius the Gentile being saved.

9. Verse 27; in circumcision is by nature (because of Adam's sin) if the sinner fulfills the law judge thee who by the letter (law) and circumcision (believers) doth transgress the law?

10. Verse 28; for he is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. Keeping the law outwardly or circumcision under the law is no requirement for salvation anymore.

11. Verse 29; But he is a Jew (physical) which is one inwardly, is that of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter whose praise is not of men but of God.

12. The context is to the physical Jew and the real physical Jew is one inwardly and who is saved.
The uncircumcision are unbelieving Gentiles not the Church.

13. In the Old Testament unbelieving Gentiles were the uncircumcision and they had to be proselyted into Judaism as the stranger at the gate. For those who was in other nations could keep the law and still be saved for God is no respect of persons.

14. In Ezekiel 18 was the same thing. God would save the wicked if they asked for God to forgive them and the Jews didn't like that.

15. At the same time, they thought they were in the club because of being God's chosen nation, thought it unfair for God not to save them if they didn't ask for forgiveness of their sin. God is no respect of persons.

16. Colossians 3:11 says there is no Jew, no Greek, nor circumcision or uncircumcision etc. for Christ is all in all.
Jews were called circumcision and Gentiles the uncircumcision. If they mean nothing because they are both in Christ why would they be called a spiritual Jew.

17. Galatians 6:16; Israel of God is separate from; and as many as walk according to this rule which are both new creatures.
Then it declares peace be upon them and mercy and upon the Israel of God.
There are some who believe that Galatians was a part of the Hebrew letter verse 11: you see how large a letter I have written with my own hand. If this is true this would show that Paul would have been the Author of Hebrews and appear to be a writing for the Jews to understand the contrast of the Jews and Gentiles, circumcision and uncircumcision don't matter in the New Covenant. Hebrews is about the contrast of the Old and New Covenants and the reason the New had to replace the Old.
18. So Romans 2 is not really talking about the Gentiles being a spiritual Jew in its context.

19. If one elevates the olive tree of Jews as the natural branches and the wild olive tree of Gentiles who were grafted in and then who could be saved then maybe a gentile could claim to be a spiritual Jew.

20. Since spiritually there is no circumcision or uncircumcision in the body of Christ then it makes no sense for the Gentiles to be called a Spiritual Jew. Jerry kelso