Is there really a definitive teaching of the Church on capital punishment?

LivingWordUnity

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All are guilty of various multiple somethings or others. None of us are sinless to be able to cast the stone.

He was sinless though.

And He decided: "Neither do I condemn you."

And He gave you and me that same pardon!

Even to this level! == ""Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
You are ignoring the point that Jesus never said that capital punishment itself is evil. And also, you are ignoring the point that the situation of someone caught in adultery is not like the problem of what to do with a serial killer.
 
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Halbhh

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You are ignoring the point that Jesus never said that capital punishment in itself is evil. And also, you are ignoring the point that the situation of someone caught in adultery is not like the problem of what to do with a serial killer.

Sorry, that was added partly above in an edit. See above now.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Notice how in the following, Jesus did not object to what was said about capital punishment:

Luke 23

"39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, 'Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!' 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.' 42 And he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power.'43 And he said to him, 'Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.'"
.
 
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Open Heart

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But why didn't Christ have the adulteress executed in John chapter 8 then? It's understandable believers in all churches want to follow His example.
The adulteress did not have a trial and was not convicted by a beit din (tribunal of Rabbis) but was being chased by a lynch mob with no authority. Had she gone before a beit din, execution was the maximum penalty but she would likely have been sentenced to less, especially if there were mitigating factors. A beit din that passed more than three executions in 70 years was considered a bloody court.
 
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Halbhh

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The adulteress did not have a trial and was not convicted by a beit din (tribunal of Rabbis) but was being chased by a lynch mob with no authority. Had she gone before a beit din, execution was the maximum penalty but she would likely have been sentenced to less, especially if there were mitigating factors. A beit din that passed more than three executions in 70 years was considered a bloody court.

Scribes and Pharisees a lynch mob?

3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst4they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery.5Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.7And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

But 2 modifications happened in any case, unlike before---

To throw the stone (to help kill) He said. -- "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

New, yes?

2nd -- "Then neither do I condemn you"

That wording He emphasized to us, to you and to me, on other instances also.

"Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned."

A new instruction, to His followers.
 
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MattMMMan17

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Catholicism & Capital Punishment | Avery Cardinal Dulles

That is the best short-form writing on a Catholic understanding of capital punishment of which I am aware. Feser's recent book is the most complete long-form.

With respect to infallibility of catechisms, they are not. There have been many different catechisms of the Church throughout history. I believe a problem with this particular doctrine began with the opinion of St. John Paul II being added into the Catechism which changed the age-old understanding of the purpose of it. It leans heavily upon its purpose of protecting society but forgets the necessity of giving proper respect to the weighty actions of the aggressor. For egregious crimes a just punishment may well be the ending of a life. The magnitude of this, the finality of it, we pray is enough to jolt the guilty into a state of reflection, and the definitive timeline itself is a mercy, allowing them a deadline at which they know their life will come to an end and there will be no further opportunities for turning to God afterward.

I find it interesting that the movement away from acceptance of capital punishment happens to coincide with a general loss of the sense of an eternal consequence of Heaven or Hell. We do not condemn someone to oblivion, but rather send them to God for a particular judgment, after having given them time in which to prepare themselves for it through reflection, prayer, etc.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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But why didn't Christ have the adulteress executed in John chapter 8 then? It's understandable believers in all churches want to follow His example.
Jesus could have rightly stoned this woman.She wasbdeserving of the death penalty, but He had mercy on her.
 
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Halbhh

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Sometimes it's clear to all that a certain individual did a murder, such as when the perpetrator is personally known by people seeing it happen.

But often that is not the situation.

But convictions happen anyway even with only one witness at times.

Innocent men have been for serious crimes they did not do, including in recent decades.

The Cases & Exoneree Profiles - Innocence Project

Since 1973, 144 people on death row have been exonerated. As a percentage of all death sentences, that's just 1.6 percent. But if the innocence rate is 4.1 percent, more than twice the rate of exoneration, the study suggests what most people assumed but dreaded: An untold number of innocent people have been executed.
One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent


Still so sure you want to end up endorsing this real-world outcome -- what actually happens?

It seems if you actually want to follow that Old Testament rule you'd need to campaign to sharply alter the standards in law for capital cases, what is needed for a capital conviction, else you end up tacitly endorsing the killing of some innocents.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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It's not always the crime or type of crime that warrants the death penalty. Some lifers still run things from the inside and can order people on the outside to be killed. If they're still murdering from jail, they need to go.
 
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StevenMerten

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Jesus upped the anti on capital punishment. Where Moses prescribed physical death capital punishment, Jesus switched up to spiritual death capital punishment. Jesus commands His Church that if her eye, foot or hand is her undoing, she is to cut it off and throw it into Gehenna. 90 times in the bible the term ‘cut off’ means put to death, inferring to cut off a person from the body of people by putting them to death. Jesus switches this up to commanding His Church to cut off evil doers by putting them to spiritual death, using the Keys to the Kingdom (the binding and loosting of sins).

Jesus Commands His Church not to let the evil doers pull the whole body of His Church into hell, but to ‘cut off’, and throw into hell those that try to pull His Church into hell through their unrepentant evil deeds. The use of Church auto anathemas (spiritual death capital punishment) should be a top consideration in our time, where Christ’s Church is, in deed, in peril of having her whole body pulled into hell by the massive unrepentant evil surrounding her and infiltrating her body.

MATTHEW 18:5
"Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.

MATTHEW 5:22

What I say to you is: everyone who grows angry with his brother shall be liable to judgement; any man who uses abusive language toward his brother shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and if he holds him in contempt he risks the fires of Gehenna.


MATTHEW 16:13
Jesus replied, "Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are 'Rock,' and on this rock I will build my church,and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

REVELATION 1:16
A sharp, two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest. When I caught sight of him I fell down at his feet as though dead, he touched me with his right hand and said: "There is nothing to fear. I am the First and the Last and the One who lives. Once I was dead but now I live-- forever and ever. I hold the keys of death and the nether world."

ISAIAH 11:4 The Rule of Immanuel

He shall strike the ruthless with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked.

JOHN 20:20
At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. "Peace be with you," he said again. "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." Then he breathed on them and said: "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."

MATTHEW 18:17
"If he ignores them, refer it to the church . If he ignores even the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. I assure you, whatever you declare bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven, and whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven."
 
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