Amen brother, none of us are worthy, Yet God prepares a place in His house and at His table for us. That is the greatness of our God.
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Are There Ranks in Heaven? Do People Get Different Rewards?
- Thread starter saintboniface
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Amen brother, none of us are worthy, Yet God prepares a place in His house and at His table for us. That is the greatness of our God.
Wait a minute. There is no such thing as an unearned reward. If it was unearned it is a gift, not a reward. All of the passages cited state that the payment, judgement, or rendering will be based on conduct, deeds, or works. They don't say anything about being unearned.
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and yet Jesus said apart from him we can do nothing, and again he said the tree produces fruit from the branches. So clearly it is not our works, Spiritual Fruit is brought forth from The Holy Spirit, so did we really earn it? Did we earn salvation too? We would not even be in heaven if not for God, maybe what we are reward by is how much we love God and how much we were willing to be used for His Will. But i would not dare say by my works for they are not mine, or that i earned everything. So yes you could say gift, by what people are willing to do. If we are put to death do you think any man could do that, but The Holy Spirit comes to him and speaks through him and strengthens him. This is all spiritual stuff by the way.
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You are right, we can't earn salvation of ourselves. God first gives us the grace we need (a free and gratuitous gift that we cannot earn). From there, we can either merit eternal life or eternal damnation by our works. That is why the entire new testament teaches us how to live, what works to do and what works not to do. Most of the new testament would be irrelevant if works are irrelevant.
Are you saying that the only factor in whether you or I will go to heaven is whether we believe Jesus is the Christ? Do men have free will to believe this or not believe this?
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Yet Jesus said apart from me you can do NOTHING. so how is we earn salvation after that by works? again Jesus say I bring forth fruit from the branches. No where in does it say in the Bible a person produce fruit on his own. In fact the opposite is said that we can produce no fruit on our own. See the sermon of The True Vine.
Loving God in our hearts is what saves us, You have to Love God to be saved, you can believe all you want demons do to, but you must Love God. But John 3:16 says, yes that is the first step Faith in Jesus then is realizing Ones sin, and Love Of God for saving you.
My Mom believes Jesus is the son of God, however, she is not saved she hates many people wants to murder my dad after they have been divorced for over 20 years, She forgives no one. This is not a heart with Jesus in it.
You must Love God, no one can Love God with out Jesus in their heart.
It is all a gift the Lord works with us Like Jesus said, Apart From Me You Can Do Nothing.
We get hung up on I do this or I this, we make our self God by saying I. That fact is God does, we live by his grace even the wicked He allows them to live. He provides for them too. It is complete dependence on God. That is the way God wants it.
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If you take, 'apart from me you can do nothing' in an absolute sense in regards to your theology just as you do to Catholicism yours would fail as well. In an absolute sense, if you can do nothing, you cannot love God or even choose to love God on your own. Just as you couldn't choose to not love God. Your application of the passage seems to be "predetermination." God chooses who will love him, who will not, how they will love him. God will predetermine some men to heaven and some to hell. That is the logical conclusion of your interpretation of this passage.
'Apart from me you can do nothing' just means that God gives us the opportunity to choose him through obedience/works or choose hell through disobedience. We can't get the opportunity on our own. We can't play the game unless God gives us the ball. That is what it means that we can do nothing.
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Bella Vita
Sailor in the U.S.N
No for continuing to fight the good fight to finish the race. This life is not easy as a christian. And the Bible tells us that by stepping out in faith and excepting christ as our savior our sin is covered. By continuing to follow him and fight in his name the rest of our days gives us the reward of eternity in heaven with Jesus.
The Bible tells us that if we live the rest of our days committed to God then we will live in heaven with him. So for those who answer that call they get the reward no ranking involved.
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can't handle the truth huh. A person can not Love God with out Jesus in there heart they can not Love with out God for God is Love. It means just what it says with out Jesus you can do nothing, no Good. No one comes to the son unless the Father draws them to Him. well there it is again God doing the work. We do have a choice to accept or reject. That is it. If your trying to say I am a Calvinist I am not it is predestination which is biblical. Jesus was predestine to die for our sins, Gods people were chosen before they ever came to this world because God already new there heart and what they would do. but he gave them a chance any way. Jacob I loved but Esau I have hated.
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twin1954
Baptist by the Bible
The idea of God electing and predestinating according to foreknowledge makes man the final determiner of his salvation just as much as the RC doctrine does. It just isn't Biblical. I know you will not deny the clear statements of the Scriptures concerning election and predestination but actually Think about the conclusion of your view.
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OzSpen
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You'll have to complain to God about that. It was he who stated:The idea of God electing and predestinating according to foreknowledge makes man the final determiner of his salvation just as much as the RC doctrine does. It just isn't Biblical. I know you will not deny the clear statements of the Scriptures concerning election and predestination but actually Think about the conclusion of your view.
- 'To those who are elect exiles ... according to the foreknowledge of God the Father' (1 Peter 1:1-2).
- 'For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters' (Rom 8:29).
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Seems like a lot of gyrations just to distinguish from Catholicism. How does one show love? By works. You say those who love (not just believe) Jesus will be saved. In other words, those who do works (show love) will be saved.
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The idea of God electing and predestinating according to foreknowledge makes man the final determiner of his salvation just as much as the RC doctrine does. It just isn't Biblical. I know you will not deny the clear statements of the Scriptures concerning election and predestination but actually Think about the conclusion of your view.
and Yet God told of Jesus coming with Adam and Eve in the garden, so how is predestination unBiblical you have proof or just you opinion. If you going to refute some you need evidence and references to do so, not I say it is wrong there for it is.
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faith with out works is dead, it is called fruit of The Holy Spirit for a reason, now where in the Bible does it tell us to produce our own fruit, but it says to produce fruit of The Holy Spirit. God works in us and produces fruit. it is His fruit, but He is gracious and gives a degree of credit. You do not call a tree by its branch you do not say that is an apple branch you cay it is an apple tree. Which produce the fruit the branch or the tree? Because Jesus uses this to describe are relationship with Him in His sermon of The True Vine.
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Legionwrex
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Just to point out, the word for hate used in "Jacob I have loved but Esau I have hated" literally translates to love less, like how Jesus said to "hate" your parents. It doesn't actually mean hate in the sense of anger. If it did and God just arbitrarily loved one and hated the other, that would be a cause for great concern.
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I agree with you. I don't think it is possible for God to hate sense that is the opposite of love. I do believe sin is so repulsive to Him That he could never do it.
Esau was a mans man, he hunted, fought, I believe he was violent. God does not like violent people. I don't believe God said I don't like Him for no reason. I believe it was Esau's heart which brought displeasure to the Lord, like the heart of cain. God takes people case by case and looks at their heart. I do believe Jacob was predestine to carry on the bloodline which Jesus would come from, while Esau's bloodline died out.
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