Is There Free Will in Heaven ???

[JohnC2]

Was there free will in the original pre-fall Creation that God proclaimed Good?

Yes.

Was that a problem? No. It was still proclaimed “Good”.

What happened? Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This imparts a Moral compass which is independent of God’s will.

This is very different from Free Will. Why? You can be fully free to act and perfectly aligned with God - and so you will act in accordance to God’s will.

On the other hand - when your Morality/Ethics exists independent of God’s - you will decide that God is wrong... And as such - you are unable to align with God’s will.

 

[Dave L]

Can we create our own future? Of course not. God created all. Including our free choices that respond to the reasons and conditions he created for us to respond to. I think it remains the same in heaven only there, the reasons he uses to control or free choices are fitted for that sin free realm.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Someone explain to me what difference the answer to that question would make.

Aside from the implication it has on the free will versus predestination debate, the most important implication is the matter of eternal security. Given a lot of time, we might eventually fall away. Given eternity it might be inevitable. If the only thing holding us in Heaven is our fickle nature, then we're doomed. If it's the power of God in our lives, then libertarian free will, as the Arminians see it, would not exist. If it won't exist then, and if love between us and God will still exist then, we might argue that the same predestination that holds us in Heaven then is quite capable of holding us in Christ's salvation, now, in this life. In that case, we are secure in his love, and in his power to hold us near, because we need not fear our own fickle nature, because God will not let us stray.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Free Will in Heaven
(Adapted from and with apologies to Eric Clapton -- Tears in Heaven)


Beyond the door,
There's peace I'm sure.
And I know there's got to be
Free will in heaven.

Would you throw a fit,
If He controlled you in heaven?
Would it be the same,
If He bound your will in heaven?

You must be strong,
And carry on.
'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven

=====
ANSWER: NO! there is no Free Will in Heaven
=====
Thankfully, in glorification God eradicates my sin nature and eliminates any possibility of rebellion.

So much for the theory that for love to exist you have to be free to reject the other person.

There is love among the Three Persons of the God Head, yet I am not worried They will have a spat!

Correction, free only to glorify God, with the freedom to choose from a glorified will, without any mixture of sin tainting the choices of the will. This is something we as Christians should all long for, look forward to, the day we can praise God with pure hearts, without guilt or weight of sin, without shame and feeling unworthy, but rather enabled to focus wholly on Him!

 

[BBAS 64]

Your point is good, but I wouldn't think that God will restrain all who are His, all of the time. Which is why Messiah could say, "Go and sin no more," which places the ability to sin in the lap of the sinner and not God (in preventing it). Abimelech is a great example, but I don't see him representing all of God's people or even him for all of his life. It was for that time and place it seems that God restrained him.

The writing of the law on the mind and heart, I believe Bill... is somewhat idiomatic. I think it is actually going to be coded in us, in our DNA, it will be part of who and what we are and that is why we will lose our ability to ever sin again.

Ken,

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

[Anto9us]

Each of you believe as you do because you CHOOSE TO believe that way OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL !!

 

[fhansen]

Aside from the implication it has on the free will versus predestination debate, the most important implication is the matter of eternal security. Given a lot of time, we might eventually fall away. Given eternity it might be inevitable. If the only thing holding us in Heaven is our fickle nature, then we're doomed. If it's the power of God in our lives, then libertarian free will, as the Arminians see it, would not exist. If it won't exist then, and if love between us and God will still exist then, we might argue that the same predestination that holds us in Heaven then is quite capable of holding us in Christ's salvation, now, in this life. In that case, we are secure in his love, and in his power to hold us near, because we need not fear our own fickle nature, because God will not let us stray.

Or...to modify it slightly. Since, as some teach, God has always had a plan, a grand plan, in this whole endeavor, in His creating, knowing the beginning from the end, we can only assume that that plan would involve something good, very good, rather than, almost hesitantly perhaps, a matter of just saving a few otherwise worthless wretched souls out of the bunch and damning the rest.

With this notion, God is actually producing something, perfecting something, molding and growing something over time, beginning in this life, with our cooperation because that very cooperation or participation is what contributes to the perfecting as He draws us nearer and nearer to His own image, placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. It begins now; we walk in His light, being led by Him, without sight, towards the good, increasingly forsaking evil as we're refined, having tasted both, good and evil, in this life. We grow in love of Him and neighbor as we know Him better and better. This is only fully consummated in the next life when we meet Him "face to face", no longer expected to walk by faith. Now we fully know, as we are fully known, now we fully know why we're here. Now we fully love. And that's why I think God's work will be done, so to speak, because it won't be just His love that keeps us obedient but now it will be ours as well. That's what Adam missed, and presumably possesses by now.

 

[Anto9us]

the most important implication is the matter of eternal security

Actually, I have recently come to see OSAS or "Eternal Security" as a MOOT POINT, not 'most important' at all.

Arminius' writings on predestination by FOREKNOWLEDGE seem to indicate that THE ELECT are deemed so by FOREKNOWLEDGE of

1. who would believe
and
2. who would PERSEVERE in believing to the end of their life

In a strict sense then, the old "They were never saved to begin with" card has a twinge of Truth to it.

Arminians as a whole never gave a final answer to OSAS vs OSnAS, and differed on whether predestination was individual or corporate - the writings of Arminus deal with both.

I guess YA PAYS YA MONEY AND YA TAKES YA CHOICE.

 

[RDKirk]

Aside from the implication it has on the free will versus predestination debate, the most important implication is the matter of eternal security. Given a lot of time, we might eventually fall away. Given eternity it might be inevitable. If the only thing holding us in Heaven is our fickle nature, then we're doomed. If it's the power of God in our lives, then libertarian free will, as the Arminians see it, would not exist. If it won't exist then, and if love between us and God will still exist then, we might argue that the same predestination that holds us in Heaven then is quite capable of holding us in Christ's salvation, now, in this life. In that case, we are secure in his love, and in his power to hold us near, because we need not fear our own fickle nature, because God will not let us stray.

Except the scriptural implication is that we won't.

So what difference does the mechanics of how that happens make?

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, I have recently come to see OSAS or "Eternal Security" as a MOOT POINT, not 'most important' at all.

Indeed.

Since you show a Star Trek avatar, let me quote Spock:

"A difference that makes no difference is no difference."

 

[aiki]

Thankfully, in glorification God eradicates my sin nature and eliminates any possibility of rebellion.

So much for the theory that for love to exist you have to be free to reject the other person.

There is love among the Three Persons of the God Head, yet I am not worried They will have a spat!

Where, exactly, in Scripture do you read that God will eradicate your sin nature such that your free agency is suspended? It seems you're going beyond Scripture here...

By definition, love cannot be compelled. This is not mere theory but the fact of the matter. It is no more possible for love to be compelled than it is for there to be circles with right angles.

That the Persons of the Trinity are in perfect agreement does not require a suspension of their individual free agency.

 

[Anto9us]

let me quote Spock:

"A difference that makes no difference is no difference."

Scotty would say "aye."

 

[YeshuaFan]

Free Will in Heaven
(Adapted from and with apologies to Eric Clapton -- Tears in Heaven)


Beyond the door,
There's peace I'm sure.
And I know there's got to be
Free will in heaven.

Would you throw a fit,
If He controlled you in heaven?
Would it be the same,
If He bound your will in heaven?

You must be strong,
And carry on.
'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven

=====
ANSWER: NO! there is no Free Will in Heaven
=====
Thankfully, in glorification God eradicates my sin nature and eliminates any possibility of rebellion.

So much for the theory that for love to exist you have to be free to reject the other person.

There is love among the Three Persons of the God Head, yet I am not worried They will have a spat!

Yes, as there shall be but One will getting always done, the Will of God!

 

[tulipbee]

free will requires space to get to point B from point A. there isn't a time dimension in heaven. free will is really one with heaven

 

[fhansen]

What difference does it make?

Serious question.

Someone explain to me what difference the answer to that question would make.

It's generally related to whether or not it's still possible to sin in heaven. What should prevent another rebellion or disobedience? Interesting question maybe if nothing else, but it may relate to how God works in us even now.

 

[RDKirk]

It's generally related to whether or not it's still possible to sin in heaven. What should prevent another rebellion or disobedience? Interesting question maybe if nothing else, but it may relate to how God works in us even now.

That would be related to whether it was possible for Jesus to sin, inasmuch as (mentioned earlier) that our minds would be conformed to Christ's as His is conformed to the Father's.

But the mechanics of a sinless eternity are still a moot point that makes no difference.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Free Will in Heaven
(Adapted from and with apologies to Eric Clapton -- Tears in Heaven)


Beyond the door,
There's peace I'm sure.
And I know there's got to be
Free will in heaven.

Would you throw a fit,
If He controlled you in heaven?
Would it be the same,
If He bound your will in heaven?

You must be strong,
And carry on.
'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven

=====
ANSWER: NO! there is no Free Will in Heaven
=====
Thankfully, in glorification God eradicates my sin nature and eliminates any possibility of rebellion.

So much for the theory that for love to exist you have to be free to reject the other person.

There is love among the Three Persons of the God Head, yet I am not worried They will have a spat!

Yes there is free will in heaven as there is no sin to will.

In a sin free world you will still have free will and free roam but we all will still want to be with God and be a family to him. Here on earth there is free will to sin or not to sin, there it is free will to be who God created you to be so you can worship him the way he created you to.

There are diffrent types of will.

 

[fhansen]

That would be related to whether it was possible for Jesus to sin, inasmuch as (mentioned earlier) that our minds would be conformed to Christ's as His is conformed to the Father's.

But the mechanics of a sinless eternity are still a moot point that makes no difference.

The reason that it makes a difference to me is in finding the reason why man sins now, from Adam until this day-and just what the reasons are for man's general malaise, angst, and unhappiness. What is missing? What is the difference between this planet and heaven? What will be the difference in us. Will heaven just be a place where everyone sort of now robotically obeys (God could've accomplished that from the beginning), or will we obey willingly, gladly, happily? Will we finally love and worship God with our whole being, in spirit and in truth?

Why give man a free will that allows him to sin now-that has allowed untold amounts of evil to enter our world- unless that same will, that same freedom, isn't expected to finally be used rightly, rather than abused? It's important to me because I think that the sheer unbridled happiness that comes from meeting and knowing God "immediately" as it's put, is what will make eternal life worth living...eternally, rather than due to God simply tweaking a few things in us-which He could've done before, avoiding all the drama. In the end it's all about the human will, and God's patient grace.

 

[ToServe]

Free Will in Heaven
(Adapted from and with apologies to Eric Clapton -- Tears in Heaven)


Beyond the door,
There's peace I'm sure.
And I know there's got to be
Free will in heaven.

Would you throw a fit,
If He controlled you in heaven?
Would it be the same,
If He bound your will in heaven?

You must be strong,
And carry on.
'Cause you know there's no free will
Here in heaven

=====
ANSWER: NO! there is no Free Will in Heaven
=====
Thankfully, in glorification God eradicates my sin nature and eliminates any possibility of rebellion.

So much for the theory that for love to exist you have to be free to reject the other person.

There is love among the Three Persons of the God Head, yet I am not worried They will have a spat!

Here is my theory -

On earth we think that we have 100% free will agency to choose right from wrong, but do we really have all the information in order to make an informed free will choice?

My answer is no we don't and so the phrase the truth shall set you free comes to mind.

What makes an agency in Heaven different to that on earth?

In Heaven a person sees and knows all truth and everything is transparent, which really is why scripture describes it like this -

I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, andover the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. (Rev 15:2)

Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, (Rev 4:6)

The agency in Heaven has 100% free will because they see 100% with clarity and make an informed and accurate choice 100% of the time.

We see that those in Heaven are groomed in this world to accept his Truth and Christ's vetting process prevents those who make decisions in this life which are against the Truth in making it into Heaven.

An example would be a boss at work who wants to be promoted in the future. This particular boss makes an informed choice against truth in order to reach where they want to go up the stinky ladder and in the process walk over people in order to do so. These people I believe fail to qualify through Christ's vetting process and will never be given access to Heaven.

All who have been washed, sanctified, and “justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” These are the recipients of the Kingdom of Heaven who do not walk over people and who do not reject the truth, because they are those who overcome the mark of the beast and stand on the transparent sea of glass and are in full knowledge of the Truth because they have 100% informed free will agency that is bound by that truth in ensuring that it remains everlasting as it is determinant upon their very existence.

Going against the Truth in Heaven is like committing suicide and there are no cases in Heaven of a free will agency committing suicide because it is 100% improbable.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Free will is irrelevant in Heaven. The purpose of free will is to allow us to make decisions that will guide us toward Heaven, or if we prefer, away from Heaven. Once we are there, free will is meaningless. We will already have perfect happiness, perfect peace, perfect fulfillment, so there will be nothing requiring choices.