Is there a difference between soul and spirit?

Resha Caner

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Everything is found in the first post...it's rather long but worth the read.

I see the 'what' - basically a lot of quoting from dictionaries - but still I believe I can discern your opinion on the matter. What I didn't see is why this topic interests you, or why you think it's important.
 
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ewq1938

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I see the 'what' - basically a lot of quoting from dictionaries - but still I believe I can discern your opinion on the matter. What I didn't see is why this topic interests you, or why you think it's important.

It's just one of many things I have studied into and decided to share. Often the topic is misunderstood by people, especially the part about a soul also being able to mean a person. Many think that is the only meaning of "soul" but there is also the type of soul inside a person/soul which is identical to what the spirit is that also resides within a person.
 
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Yes, there is much confusion regarding body, soul, and spirit - partly because not all philosophies define them the same way, so one finds contradictory definitions amongst the plethora of dictionaries ... those nutty Greeks.

I haven't seen any issues with the dictionaries but there are lots of contradictions when people who don't know biblical Greek making up their own definitions.
 
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Resha Caner

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I haven't seen any issues with the dictionaries but there are lots of contradictions when people who don't know biblical Greek making up their own definitions.

Dictionaries only report the various ways people use words. They don't provide context.

Words grow out of ideas. Greek words such as 'pneuma' and 'psyche' represent Greek ideas. To read a Greek dictionary and then assume the ideas behind those words represent the ideas of a Hebrew writer is a fallacy.

It's like studying the plants in someone's yard and listing them by their Latin scientific names without knowing whether the owner of that property considers them flowers or weeds.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Not according to Greek and Hebrew dictionaries (and English as well):

In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma) John 13:21

Here spirit and soul are used interchangeably. He was troubled in his soul, and he was troubled in his spirit.


Genesis 35:18King James Version (KJV)
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

spirit went down and the soul came up. The soul wants to control and take over and govern itself. The soul want to go on its own without God. That's why they then realized that they were naked, because they then were interested in their prevision.

James 2:26King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



Here they are used also interchangeably since the body is dead when the soul departs and the body is also dead when the spirit departs.

Keep in mind there isn't any actual difference in the definitions of soul and spirit in both Hebrew and Greek and even English. They are synonyms.




soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)

SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions

SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and to the mind, desire, and emotions.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Again using the Strong's:




Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Unfortunately scripture doesn't provide any reasoning why the two have their own names or why we need two of something that is essentially two of the same thing with no provided difference between them. It's kind of like having a two headed coin, the same on both sides yet one side is not the other side per se'.
Not according to Greek and Hebrew dictionaries (and English as well):

In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma) John 13:21

Here spirit and soul are used interchangeably. He was troubled in his soul, and he was troubled in his spirit.


Genesis 35:18King James Version (KJV)
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

James 2:26King James Version (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



Here they are used also interchangeably since the body is dead when the soul departs and the body is also dead when the spirit departs.

Keep in mind there isn't any actual difference in the definitions of soul and spirit in both Hebrew and Greek and even English. They are synonyms.




soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)

SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions

SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and to the mind, desire, and emotions.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. And notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b). Only #4 for spirit gives so much as a hint the two might be distinct.

Again using the Strong's:




Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Unfortunately scripture doesn't provide any reasoning why the two have their own names or why we need two of something that is essentially two of the same thing with no provided difference between them. It's kind of like having a two headed coin, the same on both sides yet one side is not the other side per se'.

The soul and the spirit are very different. The soul is where the emotions and will is held. The spirit is what is like God. God communicate with the human through the spirit. Spirit to spirit. The soul governs the flesh. In the bible sometimes the souls is referred to as the mind. Adam and Eve lived by the spirit in the beginning. The spirit is lead by Gods prevision. God cared for Adam and Eve. When they disobeyed God the spirit went down and the soul came up. The soul wants to provide for itself. That is why they knew that they were naked. They had the need to provide for themselves. The soul is enmity with God. Romans 8: 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
 
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ewq1938

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Dictionaries only report the various ways people use words. They don't provide context.

Words grow out of ideas. Greek words such as 'pneuma' and 'psyche' represent Greek ideas. To read a Greek dictionary and then assume the ideas behind those words represent the ideas of a Hebrew writer is a fallacy.


You must have forgotten the two words have the same meaning in Hebrew as they do in Greek so your argument falls flat. God used the Greek language so what the words mean are important and cannot be rejected merely because they are Greek words.
 
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Resha Caner

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You must have forgotten the two words have the same meaning in Hebrew as they do in Greek so your argument falls flat. God used the Greek language so what the words mean are important and cannot be rejected merely because they are Greek words.

You seem to have missed my point.
 
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ewq1938

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The soul and the spirit are very different. The soul is where the emotions and will is held. The spirit is what is like God.


Ok, can you prove that? Also, can you explain why the words have the same meanings in 3 different languages and why none of them support your definition of spirit?
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Ok, can you prove that? Also, can you explain why the words have the same meanings in 3 different languages and why none of them support your definition of spirit?
Mathew 26:38, Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
(The soul hold the emotions.)
John 4:23 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
(God communicate with us through our spirit. Spirit to spirit.)
I don't know why 3 different languages don't support my definitions.
 
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Mathew 26:38, Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
(The soul hold the emotions.)

In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma) John 13:21

The spirit holds emotions also.

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)
 
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Childofgodharrison

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https://www.christianforums.com/bible/john/13:21/
In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma) John 13:21

The spirit holds emotions also.

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels,
thinks, decides
Galatians 5:17 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want

2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)

Galatians 5:17 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then, they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
The soul and the spirit cannot both be in control at the same time.
 
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Galatians 5:17 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then, they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
The soul and the spirit cannot both be in control at the same time.

The verses do not speak of any issue between spirit and soul. They clearly mention a conflict between flesh and spirit. Soul is not mentioned. This is the very reason why I started the thread...errors about what the soul is and is not.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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The verses do not speak of any issue between spirit and soul. They clearly mention a conflict between flesh and spirit. Soul is not mentioned. This is the very reason why I started the thread...errors about what the soul is and is not.
The soul is the mind. The human is made up of three parts the body, soul and spirit. We must worship God in spirit and in truth. It doesn't say in soul and in truth, because the soul is enmity with God. The soul is what needs to be saved.
Mark 8:36For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?
The spirit does not need to be saved.
That's the difference.
 
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ewq1938

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The soul is the mind. The human is made up of three parts the body, soul and spirit. We must worship God in spirit and in truth. It doesn't say in soul and in truth, because the soul is enmity with God. The soul is what needs to be saved.
Mark 8:36For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?
The spirit does not need to be saved.
That's the difference.


Spirit and soul are interchangable...same meanings. Trying to define them differently isn't going to work out. Soul and spirit needs to be saved, and receive the glorified body.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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Spirit and soul are interchangable...same meanings. Trying to define them differently isn't going to work out. Soul and spirit needs to be saved, and receive the glorified body.
The spirit does not need to be saved. The problem is that you don't understand that the soul, the mind and the flesh are all the same thing. There is really no way to explain it to you, because your not going to see where it says the soul and spirit are not the same in the bible. If the soul have to be saved, then you can conclude that the soul and the carnal mind are the same. The carnal mind is of the world. The bible says that the carnal mind need to be renewed. The bible does say that the soul need to be saved, but it does not say that the spirit need to be saved. It says we must worship by spirit and truth. John 4:24, God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."
 
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The spirit does not need to be saved.


Yes it does.

1Co_5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

You say, "you don't understand" but perhaps it is you that doesn't understand? Take some time to think of all of this...try not to just defend the things you have believed for a long time. :)
 
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