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Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Houly, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Yes

  2. No

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Houly

    Houly Member

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    Ok, could you explain how it would line up? So the first 'seven' would start with Cyrus, 538 BC?
     
  2. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hello Houly

    Yes I will be happy to do that. First I need to be sure we understand the Question Daniel is asking.

    He is asking when the punishment will be over. God's answer will address this question. Daniel does not ask when Messiah will come. So why would God's answer ignore Daniel's question. Well it wouldn't God will answer Daniel's question.

    [11] All Israel has transgressed thy law and turned aside, refusing to obey thy voice. And the curse and oath which are written in the law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

    Nothing is by chance nothing is a coincidence. Why is it 70 years as punishment in Jeremiah. and why is God's answer 490 years. verse 11 tells us why.

    The curse of the oath in the law of Moses.

    So what is this curse?????????

    Lev 26: [14]"But if you will not hearken to me, and will not do all these commandments, [15] if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, [16] I will do this to you: I will appoint over you sudden terror, consumption, and fever that waste the eyes and cause life to pine away. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it; [17] I will set my face against you, and you shall be smitten before your enemies; those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you.

    The Punishment of the Oath of the Covenant that God made with Israel at Sinai. So why 70 years?

    Well you need to read Jeremiah and you will find that Israel and Judea did not keep Jubilee. They where supposed to let the land rest every 50 years. Once again Leviticus directly address this issue.

    Lev 26:[34] "Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate, while you are in your enemies' land; then the land shall rest, and enjoy its sabbaths.

    Now from the time of Joshua and the taking of the Land to the time of Jeremiah every Jubilee was missed. So how many years of rest did the land not have. Well the answer is ..................Guess come on take a guess.............The Answer.......... the land missed 70 Jubilees so now we understand why Jeremiah was told it would be 70 years.

    Do you understand what I have shown you so far? Do you have any questions before I move on.
     
  3. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

    +0
    Briefly ....

    The time lapse began in 445 BC with the decree to return and build the city of Jerusalem

    The first 69 weeks [483 prophetic years] ended at the Lord's cutting off in about 33 AD

    The visions of the Bible prophets are then silent about events upon the earth for the next 2000 years and counting up to this day .... nothing of earthly events appear in the visions

    The 70th week of 2520 days is still pending and will not begin until the Lord is ready

    This view is accurate, can be calculated with the correct conversions, and sets the frame work to be used for interpreting the time lapse for the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel .... nothing to do with the "church" of today

    The Lord's period of grace falls between the 69th and the 70th weeks and is still ongoing at this time
     
  4. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Houly

    I am not sure if I should continue did you read the above post? Should I continue?
     
  5. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Houly

    So we know why it was seventy years.

    What must the Jews do in captivity to keep The covenant.

    Lev 26: 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

    If after they have been taken into captivity they still do not keep the covenant then there is a further punishment.

    So did the Jews in captivity revert from their sins and return to keep the covenant?

    We know from Ezra and Ezekiel that they did not. So what will happen to them under the covenant if they do not repent.

    and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

    As shown above the punishment will be seven times. So the original punishment was 70 years but they still did not hearken and repent so now the curse of the covenant is invoked by God.

    70 years times 7 for failure to repent. So an additional 490 years before God will fulfill the covenant with the Jews.

    So as you can see the question asked is when will the punishment under the covenant end.

    So now look at the beginning of the answer.

    Dan 9:[24] "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

    So 490 years to finish the transgression, To put an end to their sin and to atone for their iniquity.

    This has nothing to do with what Jerome would have us believe. When you understand the question asked and the Covenant, this allows you to understand the answer.

    The teaching Jerome introduced in the fourth century that this is about Jesus putting an end to sin and transgression is just not what is being said here at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  6. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Houly

    Through out the years many have used decrees other than Cyrus's decree in an attempt to line this prophecy up with their preconceived understanding. In doing this they totally ignore God's very, very plain words.

    Ezra:[1] In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing:

    So here we see that God says it is the decree of Cyrus that ends the 70 years and begins the 490 years. To use any other decree is to ignore the word of God in favour of a doctrine introduced by a man in the fourth century.

    So this decree is 538BC - 490 years = 48 BC is the end of this 490 years

    Dan 9:[25] Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.

    It says an anointed one will come after 49 years. Who or what is an anointed one? All through Leviticus in at least six places by a quick count Priest are called anointed ones. In Kings, Saul is said to have been anointed by God, this is also true of other Kings including King Cyrus, Who Isaiah says is God's Anointed, and who Ezra clearly states fulfils Jeremiah's prophecy in the Bible. So it would appear that there are a few possible solutions it could be a Priest or a King or Cyrus.

    It is important to understand that the rebuilt Judea had Priest Kings, not separate High Priest and Separate Kings as before the deportation. Either way this is clearly the coming of a ruler 49 years after the word goes forth to rebuild and restore Jerusalem 538BC that puts us at 489BC


    Here is what Scripture tells us.

    Zech 6: 11: Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; 12: And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13: Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

    Here is the Verse where God says that the office of Priest and King will be united and that no more will the two argue between themselves. God Names Joshua the First of The Priest / Princes of the second Temple era.

    Dan 9:[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

    We are told in verse 26 that the line of priest / princes will come to an end. And that Prince of the people that bring it to an end will destroy the City and the Temple that not just one but Many desolations are decreed.

    So did Rome bring an end to this line of Priest /Princes in 48BC. The answer is yes they did. In 48BC Rome invaded, Pompeii killed all the Priests and the High Priest /Prince and cut the curtain of the holy of holies and entered the room Thus ending this Line of Priest/ Princes of the second Temple era and this act became the first of the MANY Desolations that would occur between 48BC and the final Destruction in 70AD. The Romans then put Herod an Arab as King of Judea and appointed the new High Priest. A High Priest who would allow images and symbols of Rome to be displayed in all the wings of the Temple creating a continual line of desolations for the next 120 plus years.

    Now I have tried to keep this short people tend to ignore or skip over really long posts. There is so much recorded history and scripture that line up for the Truth of Daniel 9: If you would like to see more just say so and I will be happy to post it
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  7. Gideon

    Gideon Member

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    Not everyone is a 'Preterist' or a 'Futurist' and no, I do not accept a break. Here are the weeks.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    • Start of 1st week - 458/457 BC
    • Start of 70th week - 26/27 AD
    • Middle of 70th week (crucifixion) - 7 April 30 AD
    • End of 70th week - 33/34 AD
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  8. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    If you do not see the breach and silence between the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel [not the "church"] ..... and the beginning of the 70th still pending your understanding of Bible prophecy fails

    Israel is not the "church"

    The 70 weeks of years is not decreed for the "church"

    The Lord's sacrifice and institution for His period grace related to salvation is for the "church" .... but not for the nation of Israel because Israel rejected this hands down .... only a few accepted

    However, the time is coming when the Lord intends to pressure a remnant of Isreal at the end of this present age during the coming 70th week .... and "many" of the same will turn and believe

    ..... this is what Daniel 9:24-27 is all about and all 6 objectives listed will be met for the believing remnant of Israel
     
  9. Codger

    Codger Regular Member

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    You are 100% correct. Right on.
     
  10. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    Wrong C

    Not 100% correct .... 100% wrong
     
  11. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Time Line from Going forth to Messiah the Prince.


    17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17

    A Generation is 40 years.

    Babylonian Captivity to Christ = 14 generations = 560 years

    Time of Captivity = 70 years : [The going forth of the command]
    560 -70 = 490 years -

    Gap between 7 weeks and 62 weeks = 40 years = 1 Generation [ From one king to the next]

    23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:23-24

    33 = Birth to “Palm Sunday”

    Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, Luke 3:23

    490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks

    [Messiah the Prince; Hosanna to the son of David]
    You have to start with the entire time of Captivity.

    The entire 14 Generations is 560 years.

    The time of captivity is 70 years.

    To arrive at the time of the going forth of the command we deduct the time of captivity. 70 years.


    560 -70 = 490 years

    The non stop progressive time from the going forth of the going forth of the command to the birth of Christ. 490 years


    16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows...

    ... from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

    That’s 70 weeks.

    We are looking for 69 weeks.

    69 weeks to Messiah the Prince.

    490 - 40 = 450 years + 33 years “Birth” to Messiah the Prince 483 years = 69 weeks


    JLB

     
  12. coraline

    coraline Active Member

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    Exactly. :thumbsup:
     
  13. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    He will Come at the end of the age to Gather his people at the Resurrection of the dead.

    Every Eye will see him!

    Amen!


    JLB
     
  14. Houly

    Houly Member

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    That would place the AofD in 51/52 BC.

    Do you separate the AofD of Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:11?
    I consider them the same, so I think the midpoint of the 70th week is tied to the time of great distress, etc.

    (Daniel 12:1) "There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then."
    (Matthew 24:15) "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel... there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world."
     
  15. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    The 70 weeks are 490 days which in prophecy is really 490 years. Num. 14:34 Eze. 4:6.
    The time started at the same time as the 2300 days. Dan 8:14 and 9:24-27.
    That was 457 BC. That would bring us to 34 AD taken into account that there was year 0. If there was we would end in 33 AD. At that time we see the stoning of Stephen, the last straw for the Jews ushering the destruction of AD 70.
    In the mist of the week 3 1/2 years is when Jesus was cut off. Starting in AD 27 Jesus' ministry was for 3 1/2 years and then he was cut off, crucified. The other 3 1/2 years the Jews had to reconcile wit God and they did not, so came the destruction Jerusalem.
     
  16. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    In Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath, H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be the fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

    This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he's (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

    In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).
     
  17. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    I don't accept any of B2's futurism. His future fulfillment is suspect because the meaning of the events is entirely changed; he would have a point if the meaning had stayed the same.

    The break doesn't have to be at the beginning, but just during, the 70th. I think Daniel is hinting that there would be an extended opportunity for the rebellious abomination (see ch 8) to change its mind, but it didn't. The historical record is that that opp turned out to be a generation long, from 30 to 70 AD, which of course is loaded with OT symbolism, and is mentioned or drawn out in some of Jesus sayings and in Hebrews.

    All futurism does is compound confusion on what happened historically. I actually totally suprised B2 thinks there is a 1st century "fulfillment".
     
  18. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    There is a breach in the prophetic visions between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th still pending

    If you are diligent and focused you can find it there in your Bible .... all of the visions of the Bible prophets have it

    This must be understood in order for you to grasp the grand sweep of the Lord's dealings with His national people of Israel

    Once you get this, all other related prophecy will fit precisely .... no guess work
     
  19. Gideon

    Gideon Member

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    I must try that one on my bank manager. A gap of 2000 years during a mortgage term would do wonders. ;)
     
  20. Time Watcher

    Time Watcher Guest

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    Something like the Lord's thinking .... that all should come to repentance and saved for eternity .... you know 2 Peter 3

    The time of His "grace"

    Be glad that He has not pulled the plug sooner .... you may have never existed

    But He will not tarry for much longer

    When the fullness of the Gentiles are added to His ecclesia at His call .... He will then turn His focus upon a returned remnant part of Israel

    This is His intent which He will carry out .... when He is ready
     
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