Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9). Some translations say "teaching" = doctrine of Christ.

You are missing the point on the rest. Think about it in view of the rest of scripture.

Where does it say that? Matthew 7:28 says "And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching"

 

[Dave L]

Where does it say that? Matthew 7:28 says "And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching"

“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.” Matthew 7:28–29 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

Reject what truth again you are not stating your thought.

The Bible states either a person has believed in the promised Messiah for eternal life or they have not.

True there are many false or fakers out there. But are you saying you are judging that these false believers are weeded out or exposed because they do not have the doctrine of Christ.

But true believers will believe the truth when they encounter it.

 

[Dave L]

Love is the means of following Christ and the ethics of the believer.

Yes, and it will practice the Sermon on the Mount and not reject it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.” Matthew 7:28–29 (KJV 1900)

oh I see, it does not say "doctrine of Christ"...you are implying that where it says "His teaching" is "the doctrine of Christ"...OK

 

[Dave L]

oh I see, it does not say "doctrine of Christ"...you are implying that where it says "His teaching" is "the doctrine of Christ"...OK

They are the same.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes, and it will practice the Sermon on the Mount and not reject it.

I dont think any Christian "rejects" the Sermon on the Mount, but our salvation is not dependant upon it, nor your personal interpretion of what Jesus was teaching in it.

What your doing is taking the meaning of the word used in 2 John, in the context of 2 John, and misapplying that contextual definition to a verse that had a wholly different context - and then coming up with this whole brand new doctrine making salvation dependant upon your interpretation of one Sermon - and not dependant upon belief in, and reaction to, our very real Messiah..

This is exactly how false doctrines are born, by misapplied meaning and twisting around of scripture.

The Bible says it is belief in Jesus that our salvation hinges upon and it says it so many times it's unreal. No where does it say our salvation depends on the Sermon on the Mount, not anywhere...

 

[Dave L]

I dont think any Christian "rejects" the Sermon on the Mount, but our salvation is not dependant upon it, nor your personal interpretion of what Jesus was teaching in it.

What your doing is taking the meaning of the word used in 2 John, in the context of 2 John, and misapplying that contextual definition to a verse that had a different context - and then coming up with this whole brand new doctrine making salvation dependant upon your interpretation of one Sermon - and not dependant upon belief in, and reaction to, our very real Messiah..

This is exactly how false doctrines are born, by misapplied meaning and twisting around of scripture.

The Bible says it is belief in Jesus that our salvation hinges upon and it says it so many times it's unreal. No where does it say our salvation depends on the Sermon on the Mount, not anywhere...

John says in essence, true Christians will practice the Sermon. False ones will not.

 

[Hazelelponi]

John says in essence, true Christians will practice the Sermon. False ones will not.

I'm not going to sit here and be a party to what your doing here..

You can kindly stop quoting me.. just treat me as if I don't exist please.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

John says in essence, true Christians will practice the Sermon. False ones will not.

the 1st section of the sermon are statements...

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Then He teaches and expounds on parts of the Law...
and finally:

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[~Zao~]

Is this a dispensationists bashing thread? Titles are so misleading at the best of times and usually entails complete lies from the opposite camp in the worst. I don’t know anyone anywhere who actually encompasses the labels they place upon themselves.

Dispensations are just times according to the work of God’s progressive teaching. But the actual dispensing is into the believer receiving Christ. IOW the work to bring that forth went thru various stages.

The sermon on the Mount is said by many to be the outline of what the Kingdom citizens should be concerned with. Matthew 5-7

 

[dqhall]

Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?


This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9).

So how do we live the Sermon on the Mount today? In my experience, I gave up my career, skills and education to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” Matthew 6:24-34. And experienced God’s providence over my lifetime just as he promised. Enjoying all that people spend their life looking for, generously given to me while not looking for them. So it puzzles me when Churches host “College and Career Days” helping their young in many cases, to immerse themselves in the ways of the world instead of in Christ.

I also shunned Military service and registered as a Conscientious Objector. This closed many doors of opportunity and brought family ridicule. But living a life of nonviolence according to the Sermon also meant God would provide all the gentiles seek after as they kill and bludgeon their way up the ladder. I had a boss who marveled about my lack of concern for money.

I know the Dispensationalists believe the Sermon is not for today. But this makes me think of the danger they are in if John is right about the doctrine of Christ.

I read excerpts from the Jewish Talmud/Mishna about first century rabbis who also practiced trades to support their synagogue ministries (Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, by Jeremias). Jesus was a rabbi who worked as a carpenter before he began his public ministry. He taught in synagogues, houses and open spaces.

I remember after Jesus was resurrected, Peter and some of the apostles were fishing all night and they caught nothing. Jesus told them to cast their nets on the right side of the boat and they did. Their net was so full of fish, it was close to breaking. This was from the Gospel of John. While they had given up full time work to follow Jesus, they had to do temporary work to feed their families. In 1 Corinthians Paul wrote that unlike other apostles he had to work with his hands for a living. Was he any less for his not wanting to be a burden on his people? Jesus taught that those who put their hand to the plow should not look back (Luke 9:62). He did not tell those plowing to quit their jobs. People needed bread. In Acts the apostles were setting aside time to study the word. Other church members were working or selling their property to support them. Without such an arrangement the Gospel teachings might have been lost. It is not easy to achieve glory.

Thirty-eight years ago I gave up smoking, drinking, drugs and dancing girls. It seems what I gained is much greater than what I lost.

I have investments, but decided not to actively invest in weapons of war, tobacco, casinos, and marijuana, lest I be tempted to try to sell such things.

If someone studies diligently in medical school and becomes a laser cataract surgeon, will he/she give sight to more people than one who drops out of college to pray?

 

[Dave L]

I read excerpts from the Jewish Talmud/Mishna about first century rabbis who also practiced trades to support their synagogue ministries (Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, by Jeremias). Jesus was a rabbi who worked as a carpenter before he began his public ministry. He taught in synagogues, houses and open spaces.

I remember after Jesus was resurrected, Peter and some of the apostles were fishing all night and they caught nothing. Jesus told them to cast their nets on the right side of the boat and they did. Their net was so full of fish, it was close to breaking. This was from the Gospel of John. While they had given up full time work to follow Jesus, they had to do temporary work to feed their families. In 1 Corinthians Paul wrote that unlike other apostles he had to work with his hands for a living. Was he any less for his not wanting to be a burden on his people? Jesus taught that those who put their hand to the plow should not look back (Luke 9:62). He did not tell those plowing to quit their jobs. People needed bread. In Acts the apostles were setting aside time to study the word. Other church members were working or selling their property to support them. Without such an arrangement the Gospel teachings might have been lost. It is not easy to achieve glory.

Thirty-eight years ago I gave up smoking, drinking, drugs and dancing girls. It seems what I gained is much greater than what I lost.

I have investments, but decided not to actively invest in weapons of war, tobacco, casinos, and marijuana, lest I be tempted to try to sell such things.

If someone studies diligently in medical school and becomes a laser cataract surgeon, will he/she give sight to more people than one who drops out of college to pray?

Whatever is not of faith is sin. So it depends on your motive. In my case dropping my career and seeking the Kingdom as my career worked out well spiritually and physically.

 

[Dave L]

Is this a dispensationists bashing thread? Titles are so misleading at the best of times and usually entails complete lies from the opposite camp in the worst. I don’t know anyone anywhere who actually encompasses the labels they place upon themselves.

Dispensations are just times according to the work of God’s progressive teaching. But the actual dispensing is into the believer receiving Christ. IOW the work to bring that forth went thru various stages.

The sermon on the Mount is said by many to be the outline of what the Kingdom citizens should be concerned with. Matthew 5-7

Dispensationalists traditionally say the Sermon is not for today. So that is why I'm concerned for them.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So how do we live the Sermon on the Mount today?

LOVE.

 

[~Zao~]

Dispensationalists traditionally say the Sermon is not for today. So that is why I'm concerned for them.

Perhaps you should find a different name for those your so concerned for because no dispensationalist that I have ever studied has ever said that!! In fact the very opposite. I don’t know what’s passing for dispensations these days but it doesn’t sound like anything I’m familiar with. I think your concerns are misplaced and are teetering on lies.

 

[Dave L]

Perhaps you should find a different name for those your so concerned for because no dispensationalist that I have ever studied has ever said that!! In fact the very opposite. I don’t know what’s passing for dispensations these days but it doesn’t sound like anything I’m familiar with. I think your concerns are misplaced and are teetering on lies.

Scofield says on Mt 5:2-12; "For these reasons, the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found only in the Epistles."

 

[~Zao~]

Scofield says on Mt 5:2-12; "For these reasons, the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found only in the Epistles."

What I’ve been seeing lately is that Paul is the only word for the Christians and Jesus with the disciples was speaking only to Jews. If your trying to pass that off as dispensationists then I understand where your coming from but not according to to my understanding of dispensations. So I think it to be an unfair accusation.

 

[Dave L]

What I’ve been seeing lately is that Paul is the only word for the Christians and Jesus with the disciples was speaking only to Jews. If your trying to pass that off as dispensationists then I understand where your coming from but not according to to my understanding of dispensations. So I think it to be an unfair accusation.

Paul imported the Sermon into the epistles. But either way, not to have it is not to have the doctrine of Christ.

 

[~Zao~]

Paul imported the Sermon into the epistles. But either way, not to have it is not to have the doctrine of Christ.

Either way it is an outline of ‘Christian' living according to Christ.