Is The Pope the figure of an Apostle??

[Adammi]

The Orthodox and Coptic churches have apostolic succession. So their bishops have authority given to them by bishops going all the way back to Christ and the apostles.

I know that this is another debate for another thread, but I would add the Anglican Church to this list of churches possessing Apostolic Succession.

 

[ProAmerican]

Mr. Rick also denies that which was claimed at the Council of Chalcedon (451 AD)- that the pope is the head of all churches and his decrees are infallible on matters of faith.

Saint Cyprian made it clear, in 251 AD, that all who abandon the See of Peter, on which the Church is founded, are not of the Church.

The Bishop of Rome is more than a bishop or an apostle, he is the head of the Church, who was commanded to confirm his brethren. The Bishop of Rome is indeed an apostle, the successor of Saint Peter, upon whom Christ built the authority of His Church.

Rick relies on the authority of apostolic authority, rather than the authority of a single figure head, who Christ commanded to lead.

When one goes back further than that - much further in time, in fact - one will see that the church would not have agreed with the Council of Chalcedon or Saint Cyprian.

Apostolic Succession from the Pope now backwards, historically,cannot be traced all the way back to the Apostolic Age.

 

[nephilimiyr]

you realize you're talking about the man who at the same time as saying what you quote there referred to himself as "the chief among sinners".

Sure I do but Paul wasn't talking about his present self but his former self, the old self that had passed away. Just because we are to now regard ourselves as a righteous son or daughter of God doesn't mean we can no longer talk about what we once were.

Please look at the context of the passage you have refered to.

1 Timothy 1:13-15, Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

Paul throughout this whole passage is making reference to what he once was, not to what he has become.

There's also something else, a lesson I have learned. Our body and soul isn't that what has changed when we first become born again. When we become born again it is our spirit that is born in us. This miraculous change doesn't effect our body or soul. When we become born again we are to then always consider ourselves after the new born again spirit that is within us but the body and soul is still stained with sin....the effects of sin is still there. That's why Paul was so adamant about us renewing our minds to the new creation that was birthed in us.

Ephesians 4:22-24, You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by it's decietful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
In other words, our body and soul is still being effected by the sinful self, by our flesh and it's desires. Paul implores us to put on the new self, our reborn spirit and renew our minds to this new born spirit. Doing this is sometimes referred to as walking in the Spirit. Doing this we reverse the trend. The more you renew your mind to Christ and His annointing the more the effects of sin leave you and you begin to truely live a holy and righteous life, enjoying all that God has to offer! The amount of holiness you prove through action and prayer is a direct result of renewing your mind to what has been birthed in you. For some this takes a short time, for others this takes a lifetime, but I feel safe in saying that we all must go through this process.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Very true, in the eyes of the RCC the "apostleness" of the Pope is in the virtue of his office, not the virtue of his person.

Thank you, very well said.

 

[Adammi]

Apostolic Succession from the Pope now backwards, historically,cannot be traced all the way back to the Apostolic Age.

Yes, Apostolic Succession from the Pope backwards can be traced all the way to the Apostles. The succession of many other sees can also be traced back to this time.

The Bishops of Rome:

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontain (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)
21. St. Cornelius (251-53)
22. St. Lucius I (253-54)
23. St. Stephen I (254-257)
24. St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25. St. Dionysius (260-268)
26. St. Felix I (269-274)
27. St. Eutychian (275-283)
28. St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius
29. St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30. St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32. St. Miltiades (311-14)
33. St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34. St. Marcus (336)
35. St. Julius I (337-52)
36. Liberius (352-66)
37. St. Damasus I (366-83)
38. St. Siricius (384-99)
39. St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40. St. Innocent I (401-17)
41. St. Zosimus (417-18)
42. St. Boniface I (418-22)
43. St. Celestine I (422-32)
44. St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46. St. Hilarius (461-68)
47. St. Simplicius (468-83)
48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49. St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50. Anastasius II (496-98)
51. St. Symmachus (498-514)
52. St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53. St. John I (523-26)
54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
55. Boniface II (530-32)
56. John II (533-35)
57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I
58. St. Silverius (536-37)
59. Vigilius (537-55)
60. Pelagius I (556-61)
61. John III (561-74)
62. Benedict I (575-79)
63. Pelagius II (579-90)
64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65. Sabinian (604-606)
66. Boniface III (607)
67. St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69. Boniface V (619-25)
70. Honorius I (625-38)
71. Severinus (640)
72. John IV (640-42)
73. Theodore I (642-49)
74. St. Martin I (649-55)
75. St. Eugene I (655-57)
76. St. Vitalian (657-72)
77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78. Donus (676-78)
79. St. Agatho (678-81)
80. St. Leo II (682-83)
81. St. Benedict II (684-85)
82. John V (685-86)
83. Conon (686-87)
84. St. Sergius I (687-701)
85. John VI (701-05)
86. John VII (705-07)
87. Sisinnius (708)
88. Constantine (708-15)
89. St. Gregory II (715-31)
90. St. Gregory III (731-41)
91. St. Zachary (741-52)
92. Stephen II (752) -- Because he died before being consecrated, some lists (including the Vatican's official list) omit him.
93. Stephen III (752-57)
94. St. Paul I (757-67)
95. Stephen IV (767-72)
96. Adrian I (772-95)
97. St. Leo III (795-816)
98. Stephen V (816-17)
99. St. Paschal I (817-24)
100. Eugene II (824-27)
101. Valentine (827)
102. Gregory IV (827-44)
103. Sergius II (844-47)
104. St. Leo IV (847-55)
105. Benedict III (855-58)
106. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
107. Adrian II (867-72)
108. John VIII (872-82)
109. Marinus I (882-84)
110. St. Adrian III (884-85)
111. Stephen VI (885-91)
112. Formosus (891-96)
113. Boniface VI (896)
114. Stephen VII (896-97)
115. Romanus (897)
116. Theodore II (897)
117. John IX (898-900)
118. Benedict IV (900-03)
119. Leo V (903)
120. Sergius III (904-11)
121. Anastasius III (911-13)
122. Lando (913-14)
123. John X (914-28)
124. Leo VI (928)
125. Stephen VIII (929-31)
126. John XI (931-35)
127. Leo VII (936-39)
128. Stephen IX (939-42)
129. Marinus II (942-46)
130. Agapetus II (946-55)
131. John XII (955-63)
132. Leo VIII (963-64)
133. Benedict V (964)
134. John XIII (965-72)
135. Benedict VI (973-74)
136. Benedict VII (974-83)
137. John XIV (983-84)
138. John XV (985-96)
139. Gregory V (996-99)
140. Sylvester II (999-1003)
141. John XVII (1003)
142. John XVIII (1003-09)
143. Sergius IV (1009-12)
144. Benedict VIII (1012-24)
145. John XIX (1024-32)
146. Benedict IX (1032-45) Benedict IX appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice removed and restored (see below)
147. Sylvester III (1045) -- Considered by some to be an antipope
148. Benedict IX (1045)
149. Gregory VI (1045-46)
150. Clement II (1046-47)
151. Benedict IX (1047-48)
152. Damasus II (1048)
153. St. Leo IX (1049-54)
154. Victor II (1055-57)
155. Stephen X (1057-58)
156. Nicholas II (1058-61)
157. Alexander II (1061-73)
158. St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
159. Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
160. Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
161. Paschal II (1099-1118)
162. Gelasius II (1118-19)
163. Callistus II (1119-24)
164. Honorius II (1124-30)
165. Innocent II (1130-43)
166. Celestine II (1143-44)
167. Lucius II (1144-45)
168. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
169. Anastasius IV (1153-54)
170. Adrian IV (1154-59)
171. Alexander III (1159-81)
172. Lucius III (1181-85)
173. Urban III (1185-87)
174. Gregory VIII (1187)
175. Clement III (1187-91)
176. Celestine III (1191-98)
177. Innocent III (1198-1216)
178. Honorius III (1216-27)
179. Gregory IX (1227-41)
180. Celestine IV (1241)
181. Innocent IV (1243-54)
182. Alexander IV (1254-61)
183. Urban IV (1261-64)
184. Clement IV (1265-68)
185. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
186. Blessed Innocent V (1276)
187. Adrian V (1276)
188. John XXI (1276-77)
189. Nicholas III (1277-80)
190. Martin IV (1281-85)
191. Honorius IV (1285-87)
192. Nicholas IV (1288-92)
193. St. Celestine V (1294)
194. Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
195. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
196. Clement V (1305-14)
197. John XXII (1316-34)
198. Benedict XII (1334-42)
199. Clement VI (1342-52)
200. Innocent VI (1352-62)
201. Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
202. Gregory XI (1370-78)
203. Urban VI (1378-89)
204. Boniface IX (1389-1404)
205. Innocent VII (1404-06)
206. Gregory XII (1406-15)
207. Martin V (1417-31)
208. Eugene IV (1431-47)
209. Nicholas V (1447-55)
210. Callistus III (1455-58)
211. Pius II (1458-64)
212. Paul II (1464-71)
213. Sixtus IV (1471-84)
214. Innocent VIII (1484-92)
215. Alexander VI (1492-1503)
216. Pius III (1503)
217. Julius II (1503-13)
218. Leo X (1513-21)
219. Adrian VI (1522-23)
220. Clement VII (1523-34)
221. Paul III (1534-49)
222. Julius III (1550-55)
223. Marcellus II (1555)
224. Paul IV (1555-59)
225. Pius IV (1559-65)
226. St. Pius V (1566-72)
227. Gregory XIII (1572-85)
228. Sixtus V (1585-90)
229. Urban VII (1590)
230. Gregory XIV (1590-91)
231. Innocent IX (1591)
232. Clement VIII (1592-1605)
233. Leo XI (1605)
234. Paul V (1605-21)
235. Gregory XV (1621-23)
236. Urban VIII (1623-44)
237. Innocent X (1644-55)
238. Alexander VII (1655-67)
239. Clement IX (1667-69)
240. Clement X (1670-76)
241. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
242. Alexander VIII (1689-91)
243. Innocent XII (1691-1700)
244. Clement XI (1700-21)
245. Innocent XIII (1721-24)
246. Benedict XIII (1724-30)
247. Clement XII (1730-40)
248. Benedict XIV (1740-58)
249. Clement XIII (1758-69)
250. Clement XIV (1769-74)
251. Pius VI (1775-99)
252. Pius VII (1800-23)
253. Leo XII (1823-29)
254. Pius VIII (1829-30)
255. Gregory XVI (1831-46)
256. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
257. Leo XIII (1878-1903)
258. St. Pius X (1903-14)
259. Benedict XV (1914-22)
260. Pius XI (1922-39)
261. Pius XII (1939-58)
262. Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
263. Paul VI (1963-78)
264. John Paul I (1978)
265. John Paul II (1978-2005)
266. Benedict XVI (2005&#8212

The See of Rome is only one of many sees that can be traced back to the apostles.

 

[Adammi]

While on the topic, here is the list of the Patriarchs of Constantinople dating back to St. Andrew the Apostle:

• 1. St. Andrew the Apostle (founder)
• 2. Stachys the Apostle (38-54)
• 3. Onesimus (54-68)
• 4. Polycarpus I (69-89)
• 5. Plutarch (89-105)
• 6. Sedecion (105-114)
• 7. Diogenes (114-129)
• 8. Eleutherius (129-136)
• 9. Felix (136-141)
• 10. Polycarpus II (141-144)
• 11. Athenodorus (144-148)
• 12. Euzois (148-154)
• 13. Laurence (154-166)
• 14. Alypius (166-169)
• 15. Pertinax (169-187)
• 16. Olympianus (187-198)
• 17. Mark I or Marcus I (198-211)
• 18. Philadelphus (211-217)
• 19. Cyriacus I (217-230)
• 20. Castinus (230-237)
• 21. Eugenius I (237-242)
• 22. Titus (242-272)
• 23. Dometius (272-284)
• 24. Rufinus I (284-293)
• 25. Probus (293-306)
• 26. Metrophanes (306-314)
• 27. Alexander (314-337)
• 28. Paul I (337-339)
• 29.Eusebius of Nicomedia (339-341)
  • Paul I (341-342), restored 1st time
• 30. Macedonius I (342-346)
  • Paul I (346-351), restored 2nd time
  • Macedonius I (351-360), restored
• 31. Eudoxius of Antioch (360-370)
• 32. Demophilus (370-379)
• 33. Evagrius (370 or 379)
• 34. Maximus (380)
• 35. Gregory I Nazianzus the Theologian (379-381)
• 36. Nectarius (381-397)
• 37. John Chrysostom (398-404)
• 38. Arsacius of Tarsus (404-405)
• 39. Atticus (406-425)
• 40. Sisinnius I (426-427)
• 41. Nestorius (428-431)
• 42. Maximianus (431-434)
• 43. Proclus (434-446)
• 44. Flavian (446-449)
• 45. Anatolius (449-458) (Patriarch since 451)
• 46. Gennadius I (458-471)
• 47. Acacius (471-488)
• 48. Fravitas (488-489)
• 49. Euphemius (489-495)
• 50. Macedonius II (495-511)
• 51. Timothy I (511-518)
• 52. John II the Cappadocian (518-520)
• 53. Epiphanius (520-535)
• 54. Anthimus I (535-536)
• 55. Menas (536-552)
• 56. Eutychius (552-565)
• 57. John III Scholasticus (565-577)
  • Eutychios (577-582), restored
• 58. John IV Nesteutes (582-595)
• 59. Cyriacus (596-606)
• 60. Thomas I (607-610)
• 61. Sergius I (610-638)
• 62. Pyrrhus I (638-641)
• 63. Paul II (641-653)
• 64. Peter (654-666)
• 65. Thomas II (667-669)
• 66. John V (669-675)
• 67. Constantine I (675-677)
• 68. Theodore I (677-679)
• 69. George I (679-686)
• 70. Paul III (687-693)
• 71. Callinicus I (693-705)
• 72. Cyrus (705-711)
• 73. John VI (712-715)
• 74. Germanus I (715-730)
• 75. Anastasius (730-754)
• 76. Constantine II (754-766)
• 77. Nicetas I (766-780)
• 78. Paul IV (780-784)
• 79. Saint Tarasius (784-806)
• 80. Nicephorus I (806-815)
• 81. Theodotus I Kassiteras (815-821)
• 82. Antony I (821-836)
• 83. John VII Grammaticus (836-843)
• 84. Methodius I (843-847)
• 85. Ignatius I (847-858)
• 86. Photius I the Great (858-867)
  • Ignatius I (867-877), restored
  • Photius I the Great (877-886), restored
• 87. Stephen I (886-893)
• 88. Antony II Kauleas (893-901)
• 89. Nicholas I Mystikos (901-907)
• 90. Euthymius I Synkellos (907-912)
  • Nicholas I Mystikos (912-925), restored
• 91. Stephen II of Amasea (925-928)
• 92. Tryphon (928-931)
• 93. Theophylactus (933-956)
• 94. Polyeuctus (956-970)
• 95. Basil I Scamandrenus (970-974)
• 96. Antony III the Studite (974-980)
• 97. Nicholas II Chrysoberges (984-996)
• 98. Sisinnius II (996-998)
• 99. Sergius II (999-1019)
• 100. Eustathius (1019-1025)
• 101. Alexius I the Studite (1025-1043)
• 102. Michael I Ceroularius (1043-1058)
• 103. Constantine III Lichoudas (1059-1063)
• 104. John VIII Xiphilinos (1064-1075)
• 105. Kosmas I (1075-1081)
• 106. Eustathius Garidas (1081-1084)
• 107. Nicholas III Grammaticus (1084-1111)
• 108. John IX Agapetus (1111-1134)
• 109. Leo Styppeiotes (1134-1143)
• 110. Michael II Kourkouas (1143-1146)
• 111. Cosmas II Atticus (1146-1147)
• 112. Nicholas IV Muzalon (1147-1151)
• 113. Theodotus II (1151-1153)
• 114. Neophytos I (1153)
• 115. Constantine IV Chliarenus (1154-1156)
• 116. Luke Chrysoberges (1156-1169)
• 117. Michael III of Anchialus (1170-1177)
• 118. Chariton (1177-1178)
• 119. Theodosius I Boradiotes (1179-1183)
• 120. Basil II Kamateros (1183-1186)
• 121. Niketas II Mountanes (1186-1189)
• 122. Leo Theotokites (1189-1190)
• 123. Dositheus (1190-1191)
• 124. George II Xiphilinos (1191-1198)
• 125. John X Kamateros (1198-1206)
• 126. Michael IV Autoreianos (1207-1213)
• 127. Theodore II Eirenikos (1213-1215)
• 128. Maximos II (1215)
• 129. Manuel I Charitopoulos (1215-1222)
• 130. Germanus II (1222-1240)
• 131. Methodius II (1240)
  • vacant (1240-1244)
• 132. Manuel II (1244-1255)
• 133. Arsenius Autoreianus (1255-1259)
• 134. Nikephorus II (1260-1261)
  • Arsenius Autoreianus (1261-1267), restored
• 135. Germanus III (1267)
• 136. Joseph I Galesiotes (1267-1275)
• 137. John XI Bekkos (1275-1282)
• 138. Gregory II Cyprius (1283-1289)
• 139. Athanasius I (1289-1293)
• 140. John XII (1294-1303)
  • Athanasius I (1303-1310), restored
• 141. Nephon I (1310-1314)
• 142. John XIII Glykys (1315-1320)
• 143. Gerasimus I (1320-1321)
• 144. Jesaias (1323-1334)
• 145. John XIV Kalekas (1334-1347)
• 146. Isidore I (1347-1350)
• 147. Callistus I (1350-1354)
• 148. Philotheus Kokkinos (1354-1355)
  • Callistus I (1355-1363), restored
  • Philotheus Kokkinos (1364-1376), restored
• 149. Macarius (1376-1379)
• 150. Nilus Kerameus (1379-1388)
• 151. Anthony IV (1389-1390)
  • Macarius (1390-1391), restored
  • Antony IV (1391-1397), restored
• 152. Callistus II Xanothopoulos (1397)
• 153. Matthew I (1397-1410)
• 154. Euthymius II (1410-1416)
• 155. Joseph II (1416-1439)
• 156. Metrophanes II (1440-1443)
• 157. Gregory III Mammas (1443-1450)
• 158. Athanasius II (1450-1453)
• 159. Gennadius II Scholarios (1453-1456)
• 160. Isidore II Xanthopoulos (1456-1457)
  • Gennadiis II Scholarios (1458), restored 1st time
  • vacant (1458-1462)
  • Gennadius II Scholarios (1462-1463), restored 2nd time
• 161. Sophronius I Syropoulos (1463-1464)
• 162. Joasaph I (1464)
  • Gennadius II Scholarios (1464), restored 3rd time
  • Joasaph I (1464-1466), restored
• 163. Mark II Xylokaraves (1466)
• 164. Symeon I of Trebizond (1466)
• 165. Dionysius I (1466-1471)
  • Symeon I of Trebizond (1471-1474), restored 1st time
• 167. Raphael I (1475-1476)
• 168. Maximus III Manasses (1476-1481)
  • Symeon I of Trebizond (1481-1486), restored 2nd time
• 169. Nephon II (1486-1488)
  • Dionysius I (1489-1491)
• 170. Maximus IV (1491-1497)
  • Nephon II (1497-1498), restored 1st time
• 171. Joachim I (1498-1502)
  • Nephon II (1502), restored 2nd time
• 173. Pachomius I (1503-1504)
  • Joachim I (1504), restored
  • Pachomius I (1504-1513), restored
• 174. Theoleptus I (1513-1522)
• 175. Jeremias I (1522-1545)
• 176. Joannicus I (1546)
• 177. Dionysius II (1546-1555)
• 178. Joasaph II (1555-1565)
• 179. Metrophanes III (1565-1572)
• 180. Jeremias II Tranos (1572-1579)
  • Metrophanes III (1579-1580), restored
  • Jeremias II Tranos (1580-1584), restored 1st time
• 181. Pachomius II (1584-1585)
• 182. Theoleptus II (1585-1586)
  • Jeremias II Tranos (1587-1595), restored 2nd time
• 183. Matthew II (1596)
• 184. Gabriel I (1596)
• 185. Theophanes I Karykes (1597)
• 186. Meletius I Pegas (1597-1598)
  • Matthew II (1598-1602), restored 1st time
• 187. Neophytus II (1602-1603)
  • Matthew II (1603), restored 2nd time
• 188. Raphael II (1603-1607)
  • Neophytus II (1607-1612), restored
• 189. Cyril I Lucaris (1612)
• 190. Timothy or Timotheus (II) (1612-1620)
  • Cyril I Lucaris (1620-1623), restored 1st time
• 191. Gregory IV of Amasea (1623)
• 192. Anthimus II (1623)
  • Cyril I Lucaris (1623-1633), restored 2nd time
• 193. Cyril II Kontares (1633)
  • Cyril I Lucaris (1633-1634), restored 3rd time
• 194. Athanasius III Patelaros (1634)
  • Cyril I Lucaris (1634-1635), restored 4th time
  • Cyril II Kontares (1635-1636), restored 1st time
• 195. Neophytus III of Nicea (1636-1637)
  • Cyril I Lucaris (1637-1638) restored 5th time
  • Cyril II Kontares (1638-1639), restored 2nd time
• 196. Parthenius I (1639-1644)
• 197. Parthenius II (1644-1646)
• 198. Joannicus II (1646-1648)
  • Parthenius II (1648-1651), restored
  • Joannicus II (1651-1652), restored 1st time
• 199. Cyril III (1652-1654)
• 200. Paisius I (1654-1655）
  • Joannicus II (1655-1656)), restored 2nd time
• 201. Parthenius III (1656-1657)
• 202. Gabriel II (1657)
• 203. Parthenius IV (1657-1659)
• 204. Theophanes II (1659)
  • vacant (1659-1662)
• 205. Dionysius III (1662-1665)
  • Parthenius IV (1665-1667), restored 1st time
• 206. Clement (1667)
• 207. Methodius III (1668-1671)
  • Parthenius IV (1671), restored 2nd time
• 208. Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1671-1673)
• 209. Gerasimus II (1673-1674)
  • Parthenius IV (1675-1676) restored 3rd time
  • Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1676-1679), restored 1st time
• 210. Athanasius IV (1679)
• 211. James (1679-1682)
  • Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1682-1684), restored 2nd time
  • Parthenius IV (1684-1685) restored 4th time
  • James (1685-1686), restored 1st time
  • Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1686-1687), restored 3rd time
  • James (1687-1688), restored 2nd time
• 212. Callinicus II (1688)
• 213. Neophytus IV (1688)
  • Callinicus II (1689-1693), restored 1st time
  • Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1693-1694), restored 4th time
  • Callinicus II (1694-1702), restored 2nd time
• 214. Gabriel III (1702-1707)
• 215. Neophytus V (1707)
• 216. Cyprianus I (1707-1709)
• 217. Athanasius V (1709-1711)
• 218. Cyril IV (1711-1713)
  • Cyprianus I (1713-1714), restored
• 219. Cosmas III (1714-1716)
• 220. Jeremias III (1716-1726)
• 221. Paisius II (1726-1732)
  • Jeremias III (1732-1733), restored
• 222. Serapheim I (1733-1734)
• 223. Neophytus VI (1734-1740)
  • Paisius II (1740-1743), restored 1st time
  • Neophytus VI (1743-1744), restored
  • Paisius II (1744-1748), restored 2nd time
• 224. Cyril V (1748-1757)
• 225. Callinicus III (1757)
• 226. Serapheim II (1757-1761)
• 227. Joannicus III (1761-1763)
• 228. Samuel I Chatzeres (1763-1768)
• 229. Meletius II (1769-1769)
• 230. Theodosius II (1769-1773)
  • Samuel I Chatzeres (1773-1774), restored
• 231. Sophronius II (1774-1780)
• 232. Gabriel IV (1780-1785)
• 233. Procopius I (1785-1789)
• 234. Neophytus VII (1789-1794)
• 235. Gerasimus III (1794-1797)
• 236. Gregory V (1797-1798)
  • Neophytus VII (1798-1801), restored
• 237. Callinicus IV (1801-1806)
  • Gregory V (1806-1808), restored 1st time
  • Callinicus IV (1808-1809), restored
• 238. Jeremias IV (1809-1813)
• 239. Cyril VI (1813-1818)
  • Gregory V (1818-1821), restored 2nd time
• 240. Eugenius II (1821-1822)
• 241. Anthimus III (1822-1824)
• 242. Chrysanthus I (1824-1826)
• 243. Agathangelus I (1826-1830)
• 244. Constantius I (1830-1834)
• 245. Constantius II (1834-1835)
• 246. Gregory VI (1835-1840)
• 247. Anthimus IV (1840-1841)
• 248. Anthimus V (1841-1842)
• 249. Germanus IV (1842-1845)
• 250. Meletius III (1845)
• 251. Anthimus VI (1845-1848)
  • Anthimus IV (1848-1852), restored
  • Germanus IV (1852-1853), restored
  • Anthimus VI (1853-1855), restored 1st time
• 252. Cyril VII (1855-1860)
• 253. Joachim II (1860-1863)
• 254. Sophronius III (1863-1866)
  • Gregory VI (1867-1871), restored
  • Anthimus VI (1871-1873), restored 2nd time
  • Joachim II (1873-1878), restored
• 255. Joachim III (1878-1884, 1901-1912)
• 256. Joachim IV (1884-1887)
• 257. Dionysius V (1887-1891)
• 258. Neophytus VIII (1891-1894)
• 259. Anthimus VII (1895-1896)
• 260. Constantine V (1897-1901)
  • Joachim III (1901-1912), restored
• 261. Germanus V (1913-1918)
  • vacant (1918-1921)
• 262. Meletius IV Metaxakis (1921-1923)
• 263. Gregory VII (1923-1924)
• 264. Constantine VI (1924-1925)
• 265. Basil III (1925-1929)
• 266. Photius II (1929-1935)
• 267. Benjamin I (1936-1946)
• 268. Maximus V (1946-1948)
• 269. Athenagoras I (1948-1972)
• 270. Demetrius I (1972-1991)
• 271. Bartholomew I (1991-Present)

 

[millerrod]

Wow what a great example you both set i bet our Lord is smiling at the amount of work and study you both are setting an example of.

 

[Dave01]

I was just wondering your views about this?

Well Paul was an Apostle, does the pope's life emulate Paul's?

 

[Father Rick]

Since people are listing lines of succession, here's the Antiochian line (since my lines are Old Catholic, these diverge from EO's once you get into the late 1800's/early 1900's).

BTW... for those who don't know, standard practice is for multiple bishops to participate in an ordination, so a single bishop can often trace their succession back to more than one of the Twelve.

(1) Peter, 38
(2) Evodius 40
(3) Ignatius I, 43
(4) Aaron, 123
(5) Cornelius, 123
(6) Eodos, 142
(7) Theophilus, 145
(8) Maximinus, 171
(9) Seraphim, 179
(10) Astlediaes, 189
(11) Philip, 201
(12) Sebinus {Zebinus}, 219
(13) Babylos, 237
(14) Fabius, 250
(15) Demetrius, 251
(16) Paul I, 259
(17) Domnus I, 270
(18) Timotheus, 281
(19) Cyrilus, 281
(20) Tyrantus, 296
(21) Vitalius, 301
(22) Philognius, 318
(23) Eustachius, 323
(24) Paulinius, 338
(25) Philabianus, 383
(26) Evagrius, 386
(27) Phosohorius, 416
(28) Alexander, 418
(29) John I, 428
(30) Theodotus, 431
(31) Domnus II, 442
(32) Maximus, 450
(33) Accacius, 454
(34) Martyrius, 457
(35) Peter II, 464
(36) Philadius, 500
(37) Serverius, 509
(38) Segius, 544
(39) Domnus III, 547
(40) Anadtasius, 560
(41) Gregory I, 564
(42) Paul II, 567
(43) Patra, 571
(44) Domnus IV, 586
(45) Julianus, 591
(46) Athanasius I, 595
(47) John II, 636
(48) Theodorus I, 649
(49) Severus, 668
(50) Athanasius II, 684
(51) Julianus II, 687
(52) Elias I, 709
(53) Athanasius III 724
(54) Evanius I, 740
(55) Gervasius I, 759
(56) Joseph, 790
(57) Cyriacus, 793
(58) Dionysius I, 818
(59) John III, 847
(60) Ignatius II, 877
(61) Theodosius, 887
(62) Dionysius II 897
(63) John IV, 910
(64) Basilus I, 922
(65) John V, 936
(66) Evanius II, 954
(67) Dionysius III, 958
(68) Abraham I, 962
(69) John VI, 965
(70) Athamasius IV, 987
(71) John VII, 1004
(72) Dionysius IV, 1032
(73) Theodorus II, 1042
(74) Athanasius V, 1058
(75) John VIII, 1064
(76) Basilius II, 1074
(77) Abdoone, 1076
(78) Dionysius V, 1077
(79) Evanius III, 1080
(80) Dionysius VI, 1088
(81) Athanasius VI, 1091
(82) John IX, 1131
(83) Athanasius VII, 1139
(84) Michael I, 1167
(85) Athanasius VIII, 1200
(86) Michael II, 1207
(87) John X, 1208
(88) Ignatius III, 1223
(89) Dionysius VII, 1253
(90) John XI, 1253
(91) Ignatius IV, 1264
(92) Philanus, 1283
(93) Ignatius Baruhid, 1293
(94) Ignatius Ismael, 1333
(95) Ignatius Basilius III, 1366
(96) Ignatius Abraham II, 1382
(97) Ignatius Bacalius IV, 1412
(98) Ignatius Behanam I, 1415
(99) Ignatius Kalejih, 1455
(100) Ignatius John XII, 1483
(101) Ignatius Noah, 1492
(102) Ignatius Jesus I, 1509
(103) Ignatius Jacob I, 1510
(104) Ignatius David I, 1519
(105) Ignatius Abdullah I, 1520
(106) Ignatius Naamathalak, 1557
(107) Ignatius David II, 1577
(108) Ignatius Philathus, 1591
(109) Ignatius Abdullah II, 1597
(110) Ignatius Cadhai, 1598
(111) Ignatius Simeon, 1640
(112) Ignatius Jesus II, 1661
(113) Ignatius Messiah, 1661
(114) Ignatius Cabeeb, 1686
(115) Ignatius Gervasius II, 1687
(116) Ignatius Isaac, 1708
(117) Ignatius Siccarablak, 1722
(118) Ignatius Gervasius III, 1746
(119) Ignatius Gervasius IV, 1768
(120) Ignatius Mathias, 1781
(121) Ignatius Behanam, 1810
(122) Ignatius Jonas, 1817
(123) Ignatius Gervasius V, 1818
(124) Ignatius Elias II, 1839
(125) Ignatius Jacob II, 1847
(126) Mar Ignatius Peter III, 1872.
(127) Paulose Mar Athanasius (Kadavil Kooran) was consecrated on December 4, 1907 by Mar Ignatius Peter III as Syrian Antioch Bishop of Kottayam and Metropolitan of Malabar (India).
(128) Mar Julius I (Antonio Francis Xavier Alvares) was consecrated July 28, 1889, by Paulose Mar Athanasius, under authority of Patriarch Ignatius Peter III to be Archbishop of the Latin Rite Independent Catholic Church of Ceylon, Goa and India.
(129) Joseph Rene Vilatte was consecrated on May 29, 1892 in Columba, Ceylon at Our Lady of Good Death Cathedral by Mar Julius I, under authority of a Bull of Mar Ignatius Peter III, to serve as Archbishop of North America.
(130) Fredrick E. Lloyd, 1915
(131) Samuel Gregory Lines, 1923
(132) Justin Boyle, 1927
(133) Lowel Paul Wadle, 1940
(134) Herman Adrian Spruit, 1957
(260) Paul Michael Clemens, 1998
(262) Joseph Philip Sousa, 1991
(263) Willibrord Johannes Campenhout, 1993
(264)William Dennis Donavan, 1993
(265) Norman Howard Russell, 1995

(266) Paul Hugh Combs, Jr., 2001

(267) Michael G. Nesmith, 2003

 

[Father Rick]

Here's one of the Anglican lines of succession as well:

The Jewish - Celtic line of Apostolic Succession

This line starts with James the Less who was the first bishop of Jerusalem. (Acts 15) The See of Jerusalem as a patriarchal see was named as such in AD 541, at the Council of Chalcedon.
1. JAMES the less
2. Simeon
3. Justus I
4. Zaccheus
5. . Tobias
6. Benjamin
7. John I
8. . Matthias
9. Philip
10. Seneca
11. Justus II
12. Levi
13. Ephraim
14. Joseph
15. Judas
16. Marcus
17. Cassianus
18. Publius
19. Maximus I
20. Julian
21. Caius
22. 2. Symmachus
23. Caius II
24. Julian II
25. Maximus II
26. Antonius
27. Capito
28. Valius
29. Daleanus
30. Narcissus
31. Dius
32. Germanio
33. Gordius
34. Alexander
35. Nazabancs
36. Hymenacus
37. Zamboas
38. Herman
39. Marcarius I
40. Maximus III
41. Cyril
42. Herenius
43. Hilary
44. John II
45. Praglius
46. Juvenal
47. Anastacius
48. Martyrius
49. Salutis
50. Elias
51. John III of Jerusalem
52. ST. DAVID: consecrated first Celtic Bishop of Mineva, St. David's, Wales (AD 519)
53. Cynog
54. Teilo
55. Ceven
56. Morfall
57. Haerwneu
58. Elwaed
59. Gwrnwen
60. Llumverth
61. Gwrgwyst
62. Gwgan
63. Eineon
64. Clydawg
65. Elfod
66. Ethelman
67. Elane
68. Magelsgwyd
69. Made
70. Cadell
71. Sadwrnfen
72. Novis
73. Sulhaithnay
74. Idwall
75. Asser
76. Arthwael
77. Samson
78. Reubin
79. Rhydderch
80. Elwin
81. Morbiw
82. Llunwerth
83. Hubert
84. Enerius
85. Ivor
86. Morgeneu I
87. Nathan
88. Jenan
89. Arwystl
90. Morgeneu II
91. Ervin
92. Trahacarn
93. Joseph
94. Bleiddud
95. Salien
96. Abraham
97. Rhyddmarch
98. Wilfrid
99. Bernard
100. D. Fitzgerald
101. P. deLeia
102. G. Camb
103. G. deHenelawe
104. Jowerth
105. Gross
106. deCarew
107. T. Hech
108. D. Martin
109. H. Gower
110. J. Thorsby
111. R. Brian
112. F. Fastolfe
113. H. Doughton
114. J. Gilbert
115. G. deMona
116. HENRY CHICHELE: Bishop of the Celtic Church in Wales, St. David's in 1408, made Archbishop of Canterbury by Rome in 1414.
117. J. Stalford
118. J. Kemp
119. T. Bourchier
120. J. Morton
121. H. Dean
122. W. Wareham
123. THOMAS CRANMER: from a Celtic line made Archbishop of Canterbury.
124. R. Pole
125. M. Parker
126. E. Grindall
127. J. Whitgift
128. R. Bancroft
129. G. Abbott
130. W. Laud, Bishop of St. David's of Wales 1621, 1629 chancellor of Oxford University, 1633 Archbishop of Canterbury.
131. W. Juxon
132. G. Sheldon
133. W. SANCROFT NOTE: The Episcopal Church in the USA lineages of both Samuel Seabury and Thomas Herring are traced back to William Sancroft. Either link may be followed to reach William Sancroft, and ultimately go to the oldest recorded consecration for this line of Apostolic Succession.
134. T. White
135. G. Hickes
136. J. Gadderar
137. T. Rattray
138. W. Falconar
139. R. KILGOUR as Bishop of Aberdeen, who was consecrated on the 12th of February 1775 by Bishop Frederick Corwallis, who himself was consecrated on the 19th of February 1750 by Bishop Thomas Herring. Bishop KILGOUR on the 14th of November 1784 consecrated
140. SAMUEL SEABURY, as Bishop of Connecticut, of the Episcopal Church USA., who on the 17th of September 1792 consecrated
141. T. J. Claggett
142. Edward Bass - consecrated May 7, 1797
143. Abraham Jarvis - consecrated October 18, 1797
144. 144 .A.V. Griswold - consecrated May 29, 1811
145. J.H. Hopkins - consecrated October 31, 1832
146. G.D. Cummins - consecrated November 15, 1866
147. Charles E. Cheney - consecrated December 14, 1873
148. W.R. Nicholson - consecrated February 24, 1876
149. A.S. Richardson - consecrated June 22, 1879
150. Leon Chechemian - consecrated 1890
151. Andrew Charles Albert McLagen - consecrated November 2, 1897
152. James Heard - consecrated June 4, 1922
153. William Bernard Crow - consecrated June 13, 1943
154. Hugh George De Willmott Newman - consecrated April 10, 1944
155. Wallace David De Ortega Maxey - consecrated June 6, 1946
156. Lowell Paul Wadle - consecrated April 7, 1957
157. Herman Adrian Spruit - consecrated June 22, 1957
158. Paul Michael Clemens, 1998
159. Joseph Philip Sousa, 1991
160. Willibrord Johannes Campenhout, 1993
161. William Dennis Donavan, 1993
162. Norman Howard Russell, 1995

163. Paul Hugh Combs, Jr., 2001

164. Michael G. Nesmith, 2003

 

[Father Rick]

Well Paul was an Apostle, does the pope's life emulate Paul's?

Depends on which pope...

Of course, there was also Peter, James, John, Andrew, etc.... all of whom were apostles, yet each were very different in both personality/style and in scope of their ministry...

 

[Dave01]

Depends on which pope...

Of course, there was also Peter, James, John, Andrew, etc.... all of whom were apostles, yet each were very different in both personality/style and in scope of their ministry...

You're right!

I do think there should be a similarity amongst them somehow though. That office should share something in common.

 

[Father Rick]

You're right!

I do think there should be a similarity amongst them somehow though. That office should share something in common.

The office does....

I'll repaste my earlier post about the basics of the apostolic office:

As some have previously stated... What do you mean by apostle?

In scripture we see various types of apostles. We see "the Twelve" (often referred to as "apostles of the Lamb"). We also see other apostles, called such by name, who came later-- such as Paul and Apollos.

We see some apostles who served primarily to pioneer new churches (Paul's missionary journeys), and others who served mainly to provide governance to churches already established (James in Jerusalem).

Certain things, however, do seem to be consist of all apostles:
1) They either pioneered new churches or governed the existing churches.
2) They trained, developed, and appointed leadership within the churches.
3) They were responsible for maintaining proper doctrine within the churches.

Current bishops certainly fulfill these same roles. While not all bishops serve as "pioneers" in the sense of traveling to undeveloped areas (as there are few undeveloped areas at this point in history), most will be responsible for the pioneering of new churches/missions/ministries within their diocese. All bishops oversee/train/develop/appoint leadership in the local churches (in fact this is one of their primary duties). All bishops also are to serve as defenders of doctrine.

So.. the pope, like any other bishop, would certainly fit the definition of an apostle.

 

[Dave01]

Ok,.. now he may be in the office and doing some of the things of the apostle,....is The Holy Spirit witnessing through him also?

In that, I mean is some of the same things that Paul and others did, is that happening through them also?

 

[Adammi]

Depends on which pope...

Of course, there was also Peter, James, John, Andrew, etc.... all of whom were apostles, yet each were very different in both personality/style and in scope of their ministry...

Very true. Judas was also an apostle. As seen by the life of Judas, apostleship was not based on personal merit.

 

[Father Rick]

Ok,.. now he may be in the office and doing some of the things of the apostle,....is The Holy Spirit witnessing through him also?

In that, I mean is some of the same things that Paul and others did, is that happening through them also?

Such as?

Preaching the gospel...
Building churches...
Impacting nations for Christ...

anything in particular you are looking for?

 

[Dave01]

Such as?

Preaching the gospel...
Building churches...
Impacting nations for Christ...

anything in particular you are looking for?

Not that Rick, those aren't the things I'm talking about.

Their credentials are provided for by GOD. That is the highest office appointed by GOD to a person according to scripture, so The Holy Spirit should be witnessing aspects of His presence in their lives. Healings, speaking with conviction, etc, etc. That sort of thing.

It can't just be an outward appearance, GOD has to demonstrate His appointment of that office to the person.

 

[Adammi]

Not that Rick, those aren't the things I'm talking about.

Their credentials are provided for by GOD. That is the highest office appointed by GOD to a person according to scripture, so The Holy Spirit should be witnessing aspects of His presence in their lives. Healings, speaking with conviction, etc, etc. That sort of thing.

It can't just be an outward appearance, GOD has to demonstrate His appointment of that office to the person.

I don't think that healings and speaking with conviction are necessarily signs of an apostle, but many popes possess those things. John Paul II sure did.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Such as?

Preaching the gospel...
Building churches...
Impacting nations for Christ...

anything in particular you are looking for?

Not that this was my question but I think what Dave01 is getting at is that both Peter and Paul had the annointing to pray for the sick and for them to be healed. Jesus told all the apostles that "these signs" would follow them. Have "these signs" followed the Popes?

 

[Dave01]

Not that this was my question but I think what Dave01 is getting at is that both Peter and Paul had the annointing to pray for the sick and for them to be healed. Jesus told all the apostles that "these signs" would follow them. Have "these signs" followed the Popes?

Yes, Neph just put it in better words than me, thanks!