Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

[reddogs]

You must be aware of all the heinz 57 mix of peoples and nations that made up the church after the Way, By the time it got to Constantine there was still no official church and the latin side was the enemy within an empire divided and not a power at all , especially when Constantine reunited the Empire. It took a schism to set it aside. One side with Pope, one without, I guess you could say one modelling Roman governments, the other elders within the Way.

Yet who remains which took over and had the control of Christianity after the Roman Empire, the Papacy was that decisive religious/political power in the history of Western civilization.

 

[reddogs]

Sorry, i am not allowed to debate in this section.

God bless you

You can email me, if you wish.

 

[timothyu]

Yet who remains which took over and had the control of Christianity after the Roman Empire, the Papacy was that decisive religious/political power in the history of Western civilization.

Only for part of it. It just got more exposure through it's acts. This is where i bow out as the historical side comes to an end.. except to say all denominations have served their purpose in forwarding the scriptures. The governance of man in religion is irrelevant to the governance of God.

 

[Lost4words]

You can email me, if you wish.

No thanks.

 

[reddogs]

Only for part of it. It just got more exposure through it's acts. This is where i bow out as the historical side comes to an end.. except to say all denominations have served their purpose in forwarding the scriptures. The governance of man in religion is irrelevant to the governance of God.

Who did the kings and kingdoms turn to since the fall of the Roman Empire, no other religious/political power has had what the Papacy enjoys, look up from the 'Holy Roman Empire' all the way up to today, and prophecy says it will till the end, but destruction awaits it.

Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

 

[timothyu]

Who did the kings and kingdoms turn to since the fall of the Roman Empire,

Actually if you study the history it was the 'church' that created or chose many of the monarchs. Why? Because the differing powers within the 'church' chose those who would benefit each. The church very early on became political in nature as is the way of man. It continues today in it's various segments. Look at Ukraine today where two branches of 'church' battle using their secular partners. Jesus' church was made over in man's image into our 'church'. When the Tempter offered and as a result of acceptance turned over the kingdoms of man to the 'church', it was no longer a matter of the Kingdom.

 

[Francis Drake]

In his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885), Pope Leo XIII stated that the pope holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

Its basically a description of the Antichrist.
In fact a Latin translation of the Greek Antichrist is "Vicar of Christ."

 

[reddogs]

Its basically a description of the Antichrist.
In fact a Latin translation of the Greek Antichrist is "Vicar of Christ."

We see in Revelation the beast that speaks blasphemies against God and make war on His saints.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In Daniel we are told that the little horn also speaks blasphemies against the Most High.
Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We see repeatedly Roman Catholic sources refer to the popes as vicars of Christ, vice-regents of Christ, representatives of Christ, Vicars of the Son of God, etc. Furthermore, the popes have claimed the right to exercise the power and prerogatives that belong only to God.

But even more, they claim to have the right to forgive sins, to set up and remove kings, to be bowed down to, to be called Holy Father, to execute the death penalty or make war upon dissenters, to change the Sabbath, to change God’s prophetic calendar, to be the supreme judges of heaven, earth and hell whose decision cannot be appealed, and to be infallible expositors in matters of faith and morals.

Look what scripture says..
Mark 2:7
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Daniel 2:21
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

 

[timothyu]

Gotta love how Christians will attack each other and even create division within their own denominations. We are supposed to remember the only division is between the ways of man and the ways of God.. world vs kingdom, and we were taught to repent of one and serve the other. Can't do that playing king of the mountain.

 

[Francis Drake]

We see in Revelation the beast that speaks blasphemies against God and make war on His saints.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In Daniel we are told that the little horn also speaks blasphemies against the Most High.
Daniel 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

We see repeatedly Roman Catholic sources refer to the popes as vicars of Christ, vice-regents of Christ, representatives of Christ, Vicars of the Son of God, etc. Furthermore, the popes have claimed the right to exercise the power and prerogatives that belong only to God.

But even more, they claim to have the right to forgive sins, to set up and remove kings, to be bowed down to, to be called Holy Father, to execute the death penalty or make war upon dissenters, to change the Sabbath, to change God’s prophetic calendar, to be the supreme judges of heaven, earth and hell whose decision cannot be appealed, and to be infallible expositors in matters of faith and morals.

Look what scripture says..
Mark 2:7
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Daniel 2:21
21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Exactly! Thanks for saving me the time to post this stuff.

 

[reddogs]

Gotta love how Christians will attack each other and even create division within their own denominations. We are supposed to remember the only division is between the ways of and and the ways of God.. world vs kingdom, and we were taught to repent of one and serve the other. Can't do that playing king of the mountain.

One has to understand what prophecy is presenting about this entity. In Revelation, John was shown in vision that worship is the root cause of the controversy between Christ and Satan. In Revelation 12, John describes how that the conflict over worship began in heaven when Michael and his angels fought and defeated the dragon (Satan) and his angels, both of whom were thrown down to the earth.

After his expulsion from heaven, Satan made this earth his theater of his operations, using all his resources to suppress the worship and worshippers of the true God, promoting instead the false worship of himself, through the unholy power, represented by the dragon, the sea-beast, and the land-beast.

The conflict starts to rise and show who the religious/political entity of the Antichrist is in Revelation 13, where Satan, represented by the Dragon, empowers the beast to enforce its false worship which is symbolized by a mark, a name, which is represented by the number 666, on the foreheads and hands of their followers. Thus, we can see the mark, name, and number of the beast, represent the nature of the false worship promoted by them, whether in the mind (forehead) or actions (hands) of the followers.

The key issue in the final conflict is the proper worship of God. John's prophecy about the mark and number of the beast, calls for believers to recognize the global false worship promoted by the Dragon through the beast which has a man as its head, as we see in the Papacy, promoting this false worship all the way to the end, where they finally are destroyed.

So you have the true worship of God, and the false worship of the Dragon and the Beast power and its supporters. Now the question which now presents itself is did the Papacy claim to have the authority to change the time and law for the proper worship of God? I think we can see here where the Beast shows itself as the Antichrist power...

 

[timothyu]

promoting instead the false worship of himself,

Or you could simply say the worship of yourself, putting our will before the will of God, serving self before considering others. Same thing the Adversary did. People who have never heard of or considered the Adversary need not blame an outside force, for they already act the same.

as we see in the Papacy, promoting this false worship all the way to the end, where they finally are destroyed.

And yet when one comes along that is more Kingdom oriented than worldly and seeks to love enemies and the like and heal division among man, Christians bash him for it.

 

[reddogs]

Or you could simply say the worship of yourself, putting our will before the will of God, serving self before considering others. Same thing the Adversary did. People who have never heard of or considered the Adversary need not blame an outside force, for they already act the same.



And yet when one comes along that is more Kingdom oriented than worldly and seeks to love enemies and the like and heal division among man, Christians bash him for it.

And yet you cant just retreat into your own little world, because it will come to be a matter of your survival at the end, with control over everyone unless you follow the false worship of the beast.

Revelation 13:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ, as our Creator made the Sabbath for man. Revelation’s final issue of worship centers on Jesus and His creative authority and power. We see the Sabbath, in the context of a day in time that God has created through Jesus Christ to give us a day to renew our relationship and remind us of our origins and our roots. It constantly reinforces the idea that we are created beings and that our Creator is worthy of our allegiance and worship.