Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

[reddogs]

In his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885), Pope Leo XIII stated that the pope holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

In the Catechism, can be found the following: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by one, God himself on earth." and also "The Pope can make and unmake laws for the entire Church; his authority is supreme and unquestioned. Every bishop, every priest, every member of the Church is subject to him."

Here are some others…"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)

"Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)

"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII *** inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)

"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)

"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)

He calls himself the Supreme ruler of heaven and earth, the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, which belong only to God and "God himself on earth". No such terms were given to a mere man anywhere in scripture and the term "Holy Father" is used only by Jesus in John 17:11 as He prayed to God the Father. For a sinful man to assume the authority and titles which belong only to God, seems the height of blasphemy.

So the Pope has laid claim to take the place of God with infallible authority and we find the Council of Trent declared: "Sitting in that chair in which Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, sat to the close of life, the Catholic Church recognizes in his person the most exalted degree of dignity, and the full jurisdiction not based on constitutions, but emanating from no less authority than from God Himself. As the Successor of St. Peter and the true and legitimate Vicar of Jesus Christ, he therefore, presides over the Universal Church, the Father and Governor of all the faithful, of Bishops, also and of all other prelates, be their station, rant, or power, what they may be."

So its not just the Pope, the councils have also laid claim that the Pope holds of himself what can only be termed as "God on Earth".

 

[reddogs]

And does he have the authority to change times and laws of God? Lets see what is claimed:

"Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days." (S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367)

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, Papa, art. 2, translated)

"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." (Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary)

"Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; --she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." (Rev. Stephan Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, On the Obedience Due to the Church, chap. 2, p. 174. (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York)

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." (Canon and Tradition, p. 263)

"Is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?... will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the SIGN of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic church." (Ibid, page 31)

Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Describing a “little horn power” Daniel says, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:" . Paul made a similar prediction:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul warned that this blasphemy was already at work, and that it would come not from an outside influence, but from within the church:

2 Thessalonians 2:7
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Acts 20:28-30
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

And we clearly see it makes claims that is has the authority to say these things and to make these changes....

 

[AllDayFaith]

No man can take the place of Jesus. We are all equals here on Earth, none above others in any way. And no one is below another person even if that person exalts them-self.

 

[Norbert L]

Given the time period and the influence and power some historical Popes had in society and those who believed in them. I think the real historical lesson today is don't let that go to your head.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Vicar means caretaker or that he's ruling by the mandate of Christ our King. It's not as much taking his place and rule by yourself as it's working together. There should be harmony between the church, her teachings and the Lord.

I believe some of the papal titles go a tad overboard, but their origin is a desire to gather the flock under one shepherd. Unam sanctam.
Besides one has to look at the context, both politically aswell aswell as theologically to fully understand things like this.

Each individual time makes something more or less obvious. It would be arrogant not to take such considerations into our moral judgement of past generations, be that theologically or politically.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Vicar means caretaker or that he's ruling by the mandate of Christ our King. It's not as much taking his place and rule by yourself as it's working together. There should be harmony between the church, her teachings and the Lord.

I believe some of the papal titles go a tad overboard, but their origin is a desire to gather the flock under one shepherd. Unam sanctam.
Besides one has to look at the context, both politically aswell aswell as theologically to fully understand things like this.

Each individual time makes something more or less obvious. It would be arrogant not to take such considerations into our moral judgement of past generations, be that theologically or politically.

I agree with that sentiment. We stand in judgement at our own peril. Self righteousness is very dangerous. Too many assign superiority to their own morality but forget that morality is based upon a set of beliefs and beliefs are beliefs not provable facts. Today, We believe that X is wrong and Y is good so if people of the past believed otherwise they are morally inferior to us. That is indeed not only arrogant but self righteous and self deceptive.

I suggest that the Church ( I refer not to any organization but to the full Body of Christian believers unrelated to which denomination they belong) already is gathered under one shepherd (Christ Jesus).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

In his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885), Pope Leo XIII stated that the pope holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

In the Catechism, can be found the following: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by one, God himself on earth." and also "The Pope can make and unmake laws for the entire Church; his authority is supreme and unquestioned. Every bishop, every priest, every member of the Church is subject to him."

Here are some others…"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)

"Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)

"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII *** inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)

"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)

"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)

He calls himself the Supreme ruler of heaven and earth, the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, which belong only to God and "God himself on earth". No such terms were given to a mere man anywhere in scripture and the term "Holy Father" is used only by Jesus in John 17:11 as He prayed to God the Father. For a sinful man to assume the authority and titles which belong only to God, seems the height of blasphemy.

So the Pope has laid claim to take the place of God with infallible authority and we find the Council of Trent declared: "Sitting in that chair in which Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, sat to the close of life, the Catholic Church recognizes in his person the most exalted degree of dignity, and the full jurisdiction not based on constitutions, but emanating from no less authority than from God Himself. As the Successor of St. Peter and the true and legitimate Vicar of Jesus Christ, he therefore, presides over the Universal Church, the Father and Governor of all the faithful, of Bishops, also and of all other prelates, be their station, rant, or power, what they may be."

So its not just the Pope, the councils have also laid claim that the Pope holds of himself what can only be termed as "God on Earth".

Sounds like the old ceasars who claimed they were gods...

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I suggest that the Church ( I refer not to any organization but to the full Body of Christian believers unrelated to which denomination they belong) already is gathered under one shepherd (Christ Jesus).

We essentially agree with one another on this subject too, we just define it differently. As for the rest or your post let me just leave a big .

God bless.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I agree with that sentiment. We stand in judgement at our own peril. Self righteousness is very dangerous. Too many assign superiority to their own morality but forget that morality is based upon a set of beliefs and beliefs are beliefs not provable facts. Today, We believe that X is wrong and Y is good so if people of the past believed otherwise they are morally inferior to us. That is indeed not only arrogant but self righteous and self deceptive.

I suggest that the Church ( I refer not to any organization but to the full Body of Christian believers unrelated to which denomination they belong) already is gathered under one shepherd (Christ Jesus).

I believe it's a prideful sin that we all commit at times. We judge others, be that churches or religions on our own without considering the reasons why.

It's all to easy. To me pentecostalism seemed like a crazy bunch of historically inaccurate people gathered in some sort of a trance.

When I read church history and modern church history I came to see how they came to life. I'm not going pentecostal obviously, but through my studies I've grown to understand their perspective.

This is vital. We all jump into conclusions without knowing what we're talking about. It has to stop.
Same goes for outsiders view on the Catholic church. A lot of what we do and believe is hardly understandable without spending some time reflecting and reading about it.

 

[timothyu]

You are seeing the same thing play out on your tv screens as we speak. Power games. In this case a purposeful misrepresentation of a scripture which ignores the previous verse which shows the rock upon which Jesus' church is built is not a man or the truths of man but only the truth from God. Gentiles of the day, especially with Roman influence knew only the ways of man, as they ignored the Gospel of the Kingdom, and created a religion, another kingdom of their own, built upon the same institutional ideas as all before, needing a hierarchy and leader like a Caesar who also represented a god.
Yet Jesus came as the humble opposite and said even a little child had a better chance of leading mankind than those who worshipped and sought leadership. Jesus and those children represented the Kingdom of God, not the governance of man. Christians should take note which side they follow.

 

[reddogs]

Ok, so then lets go to the next question which is why does anyone follow its dictates on what it says it has the authority to change, and claims that this is what Christians have to follow. Here are some statements which show who churches are following and its not the Bible:

"Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950. This Rock

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50


"Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy;" ... Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

"All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

"... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

'Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'' Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." The Faith of Millions


"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

'If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.' Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

'It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.' Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ on March 18, 1903. This Rock


'Of course these .. quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame ' This Rock,The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997


'The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church.' Monsignor Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today';, p. 213.

 

[timothyu]

You can focus on Roman influence but why focus on the Latin 'church'? It was a spin-off.

 

[Lost4words]

Sunday is celebrated as the Ressurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

'The Sabbath' was a Jewish tradition.

Catholics still attend mass on a Saturday evening 'vigil' mass. Myself included.

SDA hate Catholicism massively.

Oops! Forgot the section i was in. No disrespect intended.

God bless you all

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

You are seeing the same thing play out on your tv screens as we speak. Power games. In this case a purposeful misrepresentation of a scripture which ignores the previous verse which shows the rock upon which Jesus' church is built is not a man or the truths of man but only the truth from God. Gentiles of the day, especially with Roman influence knew only the ways of man, as they ignored the Gospel of the Kingdom, and created a religion, another kingdom of their own, built upon the same institutional ideas as all before, needing a hierarchy and leader like a Caesar who also represented a god.
Yet Jesus came as the humble opposite and said even a little child had a better chance of leading mankind than those who worshipped and sought leadership. Jesus and those children represented the Kingdom of God, not the governance of man. Christians should take note which side they follow.

Nm. I was typing a catholic response to this post, but I remembered that this is a andentist safehaven. I'll just refute common lies and that's it. I'll not teach in here. Lol, after 5 years I'm beginning to learn

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Sunday is celebrated as the Ressurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

'The Sabbath' was a Jewish tradition.

Catholics still attend mass on a Saturday evening 'vigil' mass. Myself included.

SDA hate Catholicism massively.

Yes, I believe that's a common view held by many adventists, but I'm sure there are individuals who see through this. I know first hand that friendliness sometimes shines through.

I've enjoyed theological conversations with many folks from different backgrounds, including adventists. Let haters hate and fellowship with those who behave respectfully.

 

[timothyu]

I was typing a catholic response to this post, but I remembered that this is a andentist safehaven. I'll just refute common lies and that's it. I'll not teach in here. Lol, after 5 years I'm beginning to learn

By all means. Just to clarify you mean latin catholic? So many people give Catholicism a blanket view rather than look at all the different Gentile influences including by a divided Roman empire, upon an early church that formed Christianity and all of it's offshoots..

 

[reddogs]

You can focus on Roman influence but why focus on the Latin 'church'? It was a spin-off.

Not quite sure what you mean?

 

[reddogs]

Sunday is celebrated as the Ressurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

'The Sabbath' was a Jewish tradition.

Catholics still attend mass on a Saturday evening 'vigil' mass. Myself included.

SDA hate Catholicism massively.

Oops! Forgot the section i was in. No disrespect intended.

God bless you all

No problem, and no hate intended. But the real issue is who do we obey, God or man.

You cannot change what God has set and claim His power and authority, we are just His created beings, fallible and dependent on His mercy and grace.

 

[Lost4words]

No problem, and no hate intended. But the real issue is who do we obey, God or man.

You cannot change what God has set and claim His power and authority, we are just His created beings, fallible and dependent on His mercy and grace.

Sorry, i am not allowed to debate in this section.

God bless you

 

[timothyu]

Not quite sure what you mean?

You must be aware of all the heinz 57 mix of peoples and nations that made up the church after the Way, By the time it got to Constantine there was still no official church and the latin side was the enemy within an empire divided and not a power at all , especially when Constantine reunited the Empire. It took a schism to set it aside. One side with Pope, one without, I guess you could say one modelling Roman governments, the other elders within the Way.