Is the local church necessary?

[JJB]

This was a question posed, and I was aghast . I could not get my head around the fact that a Christian was asking this . It became apparent that he believed it is unnecessary.

I asked how would Christians fellowship with one another? How would we follow the mandate to not forsake meeting together? How could we experience a full minsitry to one another? Who would properly administer ordinances?

His responses were these: there is no biblical call for the church to meet in a building. The early church consisted of all the Christians in a particular city. There are too many denominations. For the spiritual safety of my family, I graze at many different churches.

Is this just another common postmodern idea that is being promulgated among Christians these days? Sometimes, I really do feel like I live a very sheltered life!

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

This was a question posed, and I was aghast . I could not get my head around the fact that a Christian was asking this . It became apparent that he believed it is unnecessary.

I asked how would Christians fellowship with one another? How would we follow the mandate to not forsake meeting together? How could we experience a full minsitry to one another? Who would properly administer ordinances?

His responses were these: there is no biblical call for the church to meet in a building. The early church consisted of all the Christians in a particular city. There are too many denominations. For the spiritual safety of my family, I graze at many different churches.

Is this just another common postmodern idea that is being promulgated among Christians these days? Sometimes, I really do feel like I live a very sheltered life!

This is a growing phenomenon in the Western Church. It is, like so many other false ideas, a position that denies or ignores large sections of the Scriptures. This folks think belonging to church is optional, unbiblical or consider their home and family as all the church they need.

Family Radio’s Harold Camping jumped on this bandwagon after he falsely predicted Christ’s return several years back. Camping is a (somewhat hyper-) Calvinist and an amillennialist, so it is not only dispies that do that kind of stuff.

It is a new (unbiblical) evangelical fad.

It will pass, but we need to be able to answer these folks (patiently and humbly) when we encounter them.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[Irishcat922]

I think 1 John speaks to this as well as the Hebrews passage you brought up. The local church is absolutely necessary and to think otherwise is very dangerous.

1Jo 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.
1Jo 2:11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.



Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.


John Gill's Comments

Heb 10:25 - Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,.... Or the episynagogue of one another; which word is used to distinguish Christian assemblies from Jewish synagogues, and to denote the coalition of Jews and Gentiles in one church state, and to express the saints' gathering together to Christ; see 2Th_2:1 and their act of meeting together in some one place to attend his worship, word, and ordinances. Now to "forsake" such assembling, signifies a great infrequency in attending with the saints, a rambling from place to place, and takes in an entire apostasy. It is the duty of saints to assemble together for public worship, on the account of God, who has appointed it, who approves of it, and whose glory is concerned in it; and on the account of the saints themselves, that they may be delighted, refreshed, comforted, instructed, edified, and perfected; and on account of others, that they may be convinced, converted, and brought to the knowledge and faith of Christ; and in imitation of the primitive saints. And an assembling together ought not to be forsaken; for it is a forsaking God, and their own mercies, and such are like to be forsaken of God; nor is it known what is lost hereby; and it is the first outward visible step to apostasy, and often issues in it.

 

[inchristalone221]

It is an all too common phenomenon. I believe it at least partially stems from the radical change in what church means to people in this country. Rather than the almighty God bringing His son to His people through word and sacrament, it has become a matter of entertainment. People then decide that they can be just as entertained at home.

It's sad really

 

[JJB]

I think 1 John speaks to this as well as the Hebrews passage you brought up. The local church is absolutely necessary and to think otherwise is very dangerous.

1Jo 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.
1Jo 2:11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.



Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.


John Gill's Comments

Heb 10:25 - Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,.... Or the episynagogue of one another; which word is used to distinguish Christian assemblies from Jewish synagogues, and to denote the coalition of Jews and Gentiles in one church state, and to express the saints' gathering together to Christ; see 2Th_2:1 and their act of meeting together in some one place to attend his worship, word, and ordinances. Now to "forsake" such assembling, signifies a great infrequency in attending with the saints, a rambling from place to place, and takes in an entire apostasy. It is the duty of saints to assemble together for public worship, on the account of God, who has appointed it, who approves of it, and whose glory is concerned in it; and on the account of the saints themselves, that they may be delighted, refreshed, comforted, instructed, edified, and perfected; and on account of others, that they may be convinced, converted, and brought to the knowledge and faith of Christ; and in imitation of the primitive saints. And an assembling together ought not to be forsaken; for it is a forsaking God, and their own mercies, and such are like to be forsaken of God; nor is it known what is lost hereby; and it is the first outward visible step to apostasy, and often issues in it.

Excellent post! Thank you so much. This confirms what I believe God is showing me about this fellow. He is encouraging Christians to leave their churches and show up occasionally in congregations that they feel meets their "felt needs".

John 10 came to mind. Wolves scatter the sheep. The old war strategy of divide and conquer also sprang to mind.

My husband and I are going to make an appointment with our pastor to see if there is anyway to address this issue with this fellow. He is not part of our congregation, obviously, as his views show he is not a congregant in any particular church. How then do we approach these ppl? He has a website with threads, like this, and a radio show that is expanding.

Any ideas?

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I think this is related to the question, "Can I get to heaven if I don't go to church?" We tell them, yes, that all believers are part of the church universal, and that going to church isn't what makes you a Christian. So, using our modernist mindset, we reason that if we don't really need church, we won't go. If I don't need to be baptised, I won't. If I don't need the Lord's Supper, I won't take it. If it's Bible teaching I need, I'll watch Christian TV or listen to Christian radio. The trouble is, the Bible doesn't allow us to distinguish (except theologically) between the visible and the invisible church. We are only given the visible church to work with, and if you reject that, I don't think you can call yourself a Christian.

Another problem is that we've replaced the sacraments. Instead of baptism and communion, the modern sacraments are the personal decision for Christ, emotional experiences, singing... this sort of thing. Instead of encouraging people to strengthen their relationship with Christ by seeking Him through the means He ordained, we want to do it our way. Now, these things are not necessarily bad, in fact many of them are good and necessary. But the focus has been shifted. But once we stop doing things the way the Bible demands, by emphasizing certain parts of the Bible over others, we've distorted Christianity into our own religion. So we either change church to satisfy our felt needs, or we skip church entirely, perhaps replace it with the parachurch, or with whatever we think will satisfy our felt needs.

 

[Irishcat922]

His name isn't Harold Camping is it?

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

His name isn't Harold Camping is it?

Yep. Harold Camping. Go figure.

Kenith

 

[JJB]

His name isn't Harold Camping is it?

No, it's not Harold Camping to whom I am referring.

 

[JJB]

Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

Now, I'm going to hunt for verses on how we deal with apostates.

 

[Irishcat922]

http://www.opc.org/new_horizons/NH01/12e.html

Here is a good article on Camping and his abberant views.

 

[mlqurgw]

http://www.opc.org/new_horizons/NH01/12e.html

Here is a good article on Camping and his abberant views.

Camping used to air my pastor, Don Fortnor, on Family Radio quite a bit. He quit when Don was getting more responses than he was. Let me make it clear though that Don and camping are very different on many issues. I do believe that Camping does hold to the doctrines of Grace though. That said, I am no fan of Harold Camping.

 

[strengthinweakness]

Didn't Harold Camping predict that Christ would return in 1994? If he did, then he is a false prophet. I know that he is teaching that God "stopped saving" people through the use of churches in 1988. However, Camping only began teaching this ridiculous "opinion" more recently-- long after 1988!

All Christians should definitely avoid this man's program and publications, except perhaps in the sense of studying a false teacher, so as to be able to refute him. Many of his ideas are very dangerous. They are not compatible with the Bible. He may "believe" in the doctrines of grace, in some sense, but he is wrong in so many ways, about so many things, that it is best, at least, to be highly wary of him.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Didn't Harold Camping predict that Christ would return in 1994? If he did, then he is a false prophet. I know that he is teaching that God "stopped saving" people through the use of churches in 1988. However, Camping only began teaching this ridiculous "opinion" more recently-- long after 1988!

All Christians should definitely avoid this man's program and publications, except perhaps in the sense of studying a false teacher, so as to be able to refute him. Many of his ideas are very dangerous. They are not compatible with the Bible. He may "believe" in the doctrines of grace, in some sense, but he is wrong in so many ways, about so many things, that it is best, at least, to be highly wary of him.

He started preaching that get out the churches "stuff" after time proved that he had falsely predicted Christ Second Coming in September 1994. I used to listen to him now and then and found him a bit on the hyper side, but basically sound. Then his book came out, the whole world saw he was dead wrong there and he then wigged out.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[Irishcat922]

I think he is now predicting the end of the World in 2011.

 

[JJB]

I think he is now predicting the end of the World in 2011.

Doesn't he realize the world will end in 2012? That's when the mayan calendar ends. These false prophets really should get together and unify their predictions.

 

[edie19]

This is a growing phenomenon in the Western Church. It is, like so many other false ideas, a position that denies or ignores large sections of the Scriptures. This folks think belonging to church is optional, unbiblical or consider their home and family as all the church they need.

Family Radio’s Harold Camping jumped on this bandwagon after he falsely predicted Christ’s return several years back. Camping is a (somewhat hyper-) Calvinist and an amillennialist, so it is not only dispies that do that kind of stuff.

It is a new (unbiblical) evangelical fad.

It will pass, but we need to be able to answer these folks (patiently and humbly) when we encounter them.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

I understand that George Barna says the local church is no longer needed. Not sure what he thinks the alternative should be though.

edie

 

[James1979]

JJB,

What makes you so sure that the world will end 2012? Are we going to listen to Mayan, are they more trustworthy than the word of God?

 

[JJB]

I understand that George Barna says the local church is no longer needed. Not sure what he thinks the alternative should be though.

edie

Maybe those home fellowships, that have no public meeting place. How Christians would find one another I don't know. Whose going to minister the ordinances?

George Barna -- why do believers listen to him and give so much credence to his polls anyway?

 

[JJB]

JJB,

What makes you so sure that the world will end 2012? Are we going to listen to Mayan, are they more trustworthy than the word of God?

my comment was tongue in cheek, james.

I agree with you that the word of God is trustworthy and above all other source of knowledge.