IS THE HUMAN WILL FREE TO CHOOSE JESUS?

[DamianWarS]

Shall the sovereign God not have the freedom to do what he likes with own things, shall not the potter have authority over the clay, to make one for honorable use, another for dishonorable use...? (Romans 9:21) (2 Timothy 2:20-21)

Also there may be a divine purpose in creating the dishonorable ones, "for" (a purpose involving) the honorable ones, and after that, no more... (When that purpose is finished)...

God Bless!

Are these vessels for dishonor beyond the grace of God and destined for hell?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are these vessels for dishonor beyond the grace of God and destined for hell?

The only two verses in the Bible that sound even remotely Calvinistic (but are not) are Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8. For they are saying that those who worship the beast did not even have their names in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world. This means Jesus did not die for the sins of these particular individuals. Yet, Jesus did die for the sins of everyone else (John 1:29, 1 John 2:2). But this is so as to give man the opportunity to accept His free love gift of their own free will choice openly and it is not Univeralism.

Also, those who worship the beast who did not have their names in the book of life since the foundation of the world is based upon God's foreknowledge of what they were going to do. For 1 Peter 1:1-2 says God elects based on His future foreknowledge. This means God elects based on what He knows men are going to do. God does not force men to be saved or unsaved.

Names are blotted out of the book of life based upon men's sinful choices.

 

[TheSeabass]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

Human free will allows one to choose to believe error, as Calvinism, while it also allows one to believe the truth as in man's will having a role in his own salvation (John 7:17; Rev 22:17) in choosing to submit to God righteous (Romans 10:3), obeying Christ (Hebrews 5:9) to be saved.

 

[woobadooba]

There would be no sense in telling people to believe in the gospel if they couldn't choose to do so.

 

[woobadooba]

Then what does the word "elect" mean?

The answer to that is in Genesis 12:1-3

 

[SkyWriting]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

So your questions is:
"Is there any point to prayer?"

 

[1stcenturylady]

All Israelites are elect? Doesn't Romans 2: 28, 29 say that not all biological Israelites are elect?

Are there no elects among gentiles? Romans 9: 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

In the Old Testament, God called the nation elect.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

but we have to proceed as if we do have some choice in the matter, cause there is really, no other choice...

That statement, right there, makes all the difference between Calvinists who understand Calvinism and those that only think they understand it. Someone who claims belief in predestination as a reason for not evangelizing, or otherwise behaving as a synergist, is someone who probably doesn't fully understand it.

Paul seems to have understood that people have a free will choice:

Yet, Paul wrote the most on predestination of any Biblical author. He understood that people freely chose, but he also understood that God predestined. Until you can reconcile the two, you'll never really understand predestination.

There would be no sense in telling people to believe in the gospel if they couldn't choose to do so.

This confuses one kind of free will with another. People freely choose, and that's no issue. If you don't learn the difference between freely choosing, versus having a will that's free from God's design, then you'll never effectively debate in the matter, except with others who also don't know the difference.

So your questions is, "Is there any point to prayer?"

If you believe that the human will is so sacred that even God cannot violate it, then there really is no purpose to prayer. If God cannot turn a heart, then why bother asking?

 

[miamited]

Hi,

Yet, Paul wrote the most on predestination of any Biblical author. He understood that people freely chose, but he also understood that God predestined. Until you can reconcile the two, you'll never really understand predestination.

I believe that I already have a fairly complete and correct understanding of predestination. Yes, there have been some people throughout history whom God has predestined to do that which they did as they lived among us. John the baptist is likely one of the best examples. He is spoken of in the old covenant and it was explained to his father before he was even born the kind of man he was to be. God predestined John the baptist to do what he did. So yes, there are some who have been predestined to do that which they did in their lives.

However, where the Scriptures speak of the predestination of salvation, it is not speaking of individuals. It is speaking of a group of people whom God has predestined before the foundations of the world were established to gain eternal life. Those people who have been so predestined are those who would choose eternal life through Christ. God has established since before the foundations of the world were established that anyone who would believe in His truth and His Son, and establish that truth for their life, that group of people have long been predestined to receive God's gift of eternal life with Him.

So, I really don't have any real knowledge of all that Calvin believed and taught and the Scriptures don't seem to ever make clear that believing on Calvin will gain me anything. What God, through His Scriptures, seems to ask is that we simply believe in Him, His Son, His Spirit and His word. I do. I have reconciled all of Paul's teachings regarding predestination and, in fact, all that the Scriptures teach us concerning predestination and an individual's ability to make a free will choice. It is only just possible that I'm not the one who needs to understand these things better.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Ron Gurley]

I don't get it.
OP: "free will"
Discussion: Calvinistic "pre-destination"

 

[GingerBeer]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus.

Were you forced to believe in Jesus or did you choose to?

 

[TaylorSexton]

Oh, that people here would actually read a historic Reformed confession for once in their lives...

 

[Reformed2]

I'm not a calvanist, but I will give them credit for tackling some very difficult questions. Ultimatly, I believe scripture supports that faith is a gift AND we have free will.

 

[woobadooba]

This confuses one kind of free will with another. People freely choose, and that's no issue. If you don't learn the difference between freely choosing, versus having a will that's free from God's design, then you'll never effectively debate in the matter, except with others who also don't know the difference.

You are complicating things. All people are born with free will and can either choose to do good or evil. Granted, there is a point when humans don't know better, but that doesn't mean they can't learn to do good. Once they become aware of what is good, they can either accept it or reject it.

Frankly, I think it is silly to make this an issue.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

God's will is for all to be saved. Not all are saved. I wish it were God's choice to make but He wants us to make the choice so that we have free will. If God made the choice then we would not have freedom or free will.

 

[Neogaia777]

Are these vessels for dishonor beyond the grace of God and destined for hell?

If they were not made for the Grace of God, but, who can judge such matters, except God alone, we cannot tell...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I think there are some very good, divine reasons why we don't or cannot or are not allowed now, to know...

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

It seems to me that the concept of holding people guilty for their sins is only possible if people have free will.

 

[Instrument150]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

Not sure about this. I know I didn't feel like I had much choice after I was revealed the Glory of Christ. Maybe some people don't get this revelation, idk.

 

[dqhall]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

A king sent out wedding invitations for his son's wedding. The people invited did not like him and refused to attend. The king had to invite others instead. Matthew 24:14 Many are called, but few are chosen.

The sheep know the voice of their shepherd. They will follow their shepherd when he calls. (John 10).

In Israel, shepherds kept their flocks in rock walled sheep folds at night to prevent the wolves from grabbing lambs or killing sheep and dragging them away. Some sheep folds were large enough to hold several flocks. In the morning a shepherd would stand near the gate of the sheepfold and call to his sheep. The sheep who were his left the sheepfold and followed him.