IS THE HUMAN WILL FREE TO CHOOSE JESUS?

[Si_monfaith]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

 

[Ron Gurley]

OP: Q: "What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?"

A: The true doctrine of the spiritual gift of >"free will"< is supported by Scripture. It has been discussed many times herein.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...the-all-everything-attributes-of-god.8011130/

The true doctrine of "FREE WILL"??: Biblical examples??

Gods Grace vs Free Will

 

[St_Worm2]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

I believe we are free to choose according to our greatest desire at any given moment (unless a force outside of ourselves is powerful enough to stop us). That is the essence of free will.

Normally, we can freely choose whatever is available to us, so that's not our problem. And while most/all of us want the "benefits/blessings" that God has to offer, none of us, in our fallen state, want the Blesser Himself .. cf 1 Corinthians 1:18.

Yours and His,
David

Romans 3
10 THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.​

 

[timewerx]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

Some people would choose Christ on their free will, some people wouldn't.

It is proof some of us are the lost sheep, some are the child of Satan.

Of course, I'm talking about the real Christ, not necessarily the mainstream perceived attributes of Christ which maybe false.

It's okay to reject a false notion of Christ or a quality attributed to Him that isn't true.

 

[Neogaia777]

Some believe that the human will is free to choose Jesus. Doesn't this belief betray one's trust in his will rather than the will of God in order to be saved?

Moreover, isn't the view that the human will is free leads one to trust in his/her works to be saved rather than trust only in the works of Jesus to be saved?

Are there any views in Christianity that address this issue apart from unconditional election, conditional election and the works-based salvation of Catholicism?

What does truth in the Bible say as to whether the human will is free or not?

The Father alone knows if we truly have free will or not...

The Son does not know, even about his own self, none of the angels know, nor none of us, which leaves us with the only option but to proceed as if we all do have free will and choice, even if we really do not...

God Bless!

 

[Ron Gurley]

The true doctrine of "FREE WILL"??: Biblical examples??

"Free will" and SALVATION by GRACE through spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF (John 3+Eph.2)

Man's spiritual "Free Will"
...VERSUS...
the spiritual perfect WILL of the TRI-UNE GOD

In Genesis, Man had the "free will" to OBEY...remain in Eden...spiritually walk and talk with his UNSEEN God.
...VERSUS...
do his own thing...follow his selfish and natural tendancy to turn from God...DISOBEY

In the gospels / NT:

1."free will" BEFORE "salvation"...

The spirit of Man can ACCEPT or REJECT the DRAWING/CALLING of God.
...the offer of the gift of undeserved spiritual Grace/Love/Mercy
through spirit-led Faith/Belief.

2. "free will" AFTER "salvation"...

a. guided into spiritual "good works"
...VERSUS...
following the 1. world (chaos) and 2. the old "ways of the flesh" (sin nature) and 3. the temptations/attacks of spirit beings: devil/demons.

b. Be filled with / controlled by / pray and worship / walk in THE SPIRIT
...VERSUS...
grieve / quench / do not follow THE SPIRIT's guidance and comfort.

God gives Man the opportunities to CHOOSE...allowing the spiritual freedom to choose...free to follow the will of God...or not.

The following concepts are difficult to understand and perhaps logically contradictory....BOTH EXIST!...

A. The Sovreignty of an all-everything perfect God, a SPIRIT!
...VERSUS...
B. the spiritual exercise of the "free will" of Man (and angels!)

ACCEPT...RECEIVE...BELIEVE...etc...OR...NOT!

John 1: 12-13 (NASB)...Will of Man VS the Will of God ~= "free will"
But as many as RECEIVED Him,(spiritually born again from above)
to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who BELIEVE in His name,
who were BORN,
not of blood
nor of the will of the flesh
nor of the will of man,
but (spiritually BORN) of (the Will of) God.

John 3: 11-12 ...Accept Jesus' "testimony"..OR...NOT~= "free will"
11 Truly, truly, I say to you,
we speak of what we know
and testify of what we have seen,
and you do not ACCEPT our testimony.
12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

John 8 : 31-38 (NASB)...Jesus: FOLLOW...OR...NOT ~= "free will"
...“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”...( to follow the will of God)

1 Thessalonians 2:13 ...Accept God's "word"...or...NOT ~= "free will"
For this reason we also constantly thank God
that when you received the "word of God" which you heard from us,
you ACCEPTED it not as the word of men, but for what it really is,
the "word of God", which also performs its work in you who BELIEVE.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a "natural man" (unsaved) does not ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him;
and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually appraised.(discerned)

Hebrews 10: 31;35-36(NASB)...Jesus the Christ ...or... Judgment? ~= "free will"
It is a terrifying thing (for unbelievers) to fall into the hands of the living God....
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence (in a believer's salvation),
which has a great reward.For you have need of endurance,
so that when you have done the WILL of GOD,
you may receive what was promised. (joy!)...John 15!

1 John 2: 15-17(NASB)...John: Do Not Love the World...Love God ~= "free will"
Do not love the world nor the things in the world.
If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh and
the lust of the eyes and
the boastful pride of life,
is not from the Father, but is from the world.
The world is passing away, and also its lusts;
but the one who does the WILL of GOD lives forever.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I believe the following principle applies:

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River" (Joshua 24:15).

I don't think that the principle of choosing to accept and serve Christ is any different to what Joshua said to the Hebrews. God is not going to contradict His Word at any stage. If He offered a choice to the Hebrews of Joshua's time, then the same choice is offered to unbelievers to choose to serve Christ.

 

[1stcenturylady]

When God said "Let us make man in Our Image," I don't think many people grasp the full measure of what that entailed, but most of all, Calvinists. We aren't puppets on a string with no will of our own. No, God is sovereign, but in making us in Their Own Image, God gave sovereignty to man over his own life to choose and have free will. God didn't create some to be saved, while others He created to be damned. That image of God is not the God of the Bible.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I believe we are free to choose according to our greatest desire at any given moment (unless a force outside of ourselves is powerful enough to stop us). That is the essence of free will.

Normally, we can freely choose whatever is available to us, so that's not our problem. And while most/all of us want the "benefits/blessings" that God has to offer, none of us, in our fallen state, want the Blesser Himself .. cf 1 Corinthians 1:18.

Yours and His,
David

Romans 3
10 THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.​

You believe in conditional election?

 

[Si_monfaith]

The Father alone knows if we truly have free will or not...

The Son does not know, even about his own self, none of the angels know, nor none of us, which leaves us with the only option but to proceed as if we all do have free will and choice, even if we really do not...

God Bless!

You believe in unconditional election?

 

[Si_monfaith]

When God said "Let us make man in Our Image," I don't think many people grasp the full measure of what that entailed, but most of all, Calvinists. We aren't puppets on a string with no will of our own. No, God is sovereign, but in making us in Their Own Image, God gave sovereignty to man over his own life to choose and have free will. God didn't create some to be saved, while others He created to be damned. That image of God is not the God of the Bible.

Then what does the word "elect" mean?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Then what does the word "elect" mean?

The Jews were called the "elect," but not all of them chose to stay with God. Of all nations they were predestined to be set apart, but not all of them were saved.

Predestination vs. God's foreknowledge is a another issue that has been totally misunderstood by one denominational umbrella in particular.

 

[St_Worm2]

God is not going to contradict His Word at any stage. If He offered a choice to the Hebrews of Joshua's time, then the same choice is offered to unbelievers to choose to serve Christ.

Hi Oscarr, it's true that God offered the Hebrews of Joshua's day, His chosen people, who He was personally living among and had miraculously delivered from slavery and death at the hands of the heathen nations, a choice to obey Him or disobey Him.

And what happened that day wasn't a real shocker, was it, because all of God's "chosen" people chose to serve and obey Him, all of them .. Joshua 24:16-18.

What is interesting in counterpoint is the reaction of the Egyptians to all of those same miraculous signs and wonders. They saw the very same things that the Hebrew people did, but neither they nor Pharaoh chose to believe.

Why

The NT event that comes quickly to mind is found towards the end Acts 13. St. Paul had just decided to include the Gentiles in his exclusive ministry to the Jews. The Bible tells us:

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.​

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - perhaps it would have been better to compare today's unbelievers with the people of the heathen nations in Joshua's time instead of the Jews?

 

[St_Worm2]

You believe in conditional election?

No.

 

[Si_monfaith]

The Jews were called the "elect," but not all of them chose to stay with God. Of all nations they were predestined to be set apart, but not all of them were saved.

Predestination vs. God's foreknowledge is a another issue that has been totally misunderstood by one denominational umbrella in particular.

All Israelites are elect? Doesn't Romans 2: 28, 29 say that not all biological Israelites are elect?

Are there no elects among gentiles? Romans 9: 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

 

[Si_monfaith]

No.

What does the word "elect" mean?

I think you believe in conditional election.

 

[St_Worm2]

What does the word "elect" mean?

In the context of the Bible, it means to be elected/chosen by God.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I believe the following principle applies:

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River" (Joshua 24:15).

I don't think that the principle of choosing to accept and serve Christ is any different to what Joshua said to the Hebrews. God is not going to contradict His Word at any stage. If He offered a choice to the Hebrews of Joshua's time, then the same choice is offered to unbelievers to choose to serve Christ.

Then what is the meaning of the word "elect"?

 

[Si_monfaith]

The true doctrine of "FREE WILL"??: Biblical examples??

"Free will" and SALVATION by GRACE through spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF (John 3+Eph.2)

Man's spiritual "Free Will"
...VERSUS...
the spiritual perfect WILL of the TRI-UNE GOD

In Genesis, Man had the "free will" to OBEY...remain in Eden...spiritually walk and talk with his UNSEEN God.
...VERSUS...
do his own thing...follow his selfish and natural tendancy to turn from God...DISOBEY

In the gospels / NT:

1."free will" BEFORE "salvation"...

The spirit of Man can ACCEPT or REJECT the DRAWING/CALLING of God.
...the offer of the gift of undeserved spiritual Grace/Love/Mercy
through spirit-led Faith/Belief.

2. "free will" AFTER "salvation"...

a. guided into spiritual "good works"
...VERSUS...
following the 1. world (chaos) and 2. the old "ways of the flesh" (sin nature) and 3. the temptations/attacks of spirit beings: devil/demons.

b. Be filled with / controlled by / pray and worship / walk in THE SPIRIT
...VERSUS...
grieve / quench / do not follow THE SPIRIT's guidance and comfort.

God gives Man the opportunities to CHOOSE...allowing the spiritual freedom to choose...free to follow the will of God...or not.

The following concepts are difficult to understand and perhaps logically contradictory....BOTH EXIST!...

A. The Sovreignty of an all-everything perfect God, a SPIRIT!
...VERSUS...
B. the spiritual exercise of the "free will" of Man (and angels!)

ACCEPT...RECEIVE...BELIEVE...etc...OR...NOT!

John 1: 12-13 (NASB)...Will of Man VS the Will of God ~= "free will"
But as many as RECEIVED Him,(spiritually born again from above)
to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who BELIEVE in His name,
who were BORN,
not of blood
nor of the will of the flesh
nor of the will of man,
but (spiritually BORN) of (the Will of) God.

John 3: 11-12 ...Accept Jesus' "testimony"..OR...NOT~= "free will"
11 Truly, truly, I say to you,
we speak of what we know
and testify of what we have seen,
and you do not ACCEPT our testimony.
12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

John 8 : 31-38 (NASB)...Jesus: FOLLOW...OR...NOT ~= "free will"
...“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”...( to follow the will of God)

1 Thessalonians 2:13 ...Accept God's "word"...or...NOT ~= "free will"
For this reason we also constantly thank God
that when you received the "word of God" which you heard from us,
you ACCEPTED it not as the word of men, but for what it really is,
the "word of God", which also performs its work in you who BELIEVE.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a "natural man" (unsaved) does not ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him;
and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually appraised.(discerned)

Hebrews 10: 31;35-36(NASB)...Jesus the Christ ...or... Judgment? ~= "free will"
It is a terrifying thing (for unbelievers) to fall into the hands of the living God....
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence (in a believer's salvation),
which has a great reward.For you have need of endurance,
so that when you have done the WILL of GOD,
you may receive what was promised. (joy!)...John 15!

1 John 2: 15-17(NASB)...John: Do Not Love the World...Love God ~= "free will"
Do not love the world nor the things in the world.
If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh and
the lust of the eyes and
the boastful pride of life,
is not from the Father, but is from the world.
The world is passing away, and also its lusts;
but the one who does the WILL of GOD lives forever.

Then what does the word "elect" mean?

 

[Si_monfaith]

In the context of the Bible, it means to be elected/chosen by God for eternal life.

"Chosen by God" unconditionally?