Is the Holy Spirit needed to believe initially?

[friend of]

I suppose this thread is aimed more at Calvinists and their doctrine of total depravity, which inferrs that the inception of faith in Christ is solely the work of the Holy Spirit convincing one of the truth about Christ.

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This passage shows that people believed in Jesus before receiving the Holy Spirit (aparently). So what compelled them to believe in Jesus' testimony if the Spirit had not yet been given them? Was it their own free will in this case?

 

[JohnB445]

The reason why I find it so hard to believe in free will is because, who wouldn't want to believe in Jesus, have eternal life, and to be regenerated?

 

[friend of]

I guess we'll never be able to truly understand the heart of the determined reprobate. (Probably for the best)

And it's not that I'm against Calvinism. I just find that Synergism is more compatible with the concept of free will than Monergism. So I lean toward the former, but remain not totally committed to either.

 

[royal priest]

I suppose this thread is aimed more at Calvinists and their doctrine of total depravity, which inferrs that the inception of faith in Christ is solely the work of the Holy Spirit convincing one of the truth about Christ.

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This passage shows that people believed in Jesus before receiving the Holy Spirit (aparently). So what compelled them to believe in Jesus' testimony if the Spirit had not yet been given them? Was it their own free will in this case?

John is not saying the Spirit was not active prior to Jesus' glorification.
He's referring to the prophecy in Joel regarding the special outpouring of the Spirit during the Feast of Weeks as explained by Peter in Acts chapter 2:
“Men of Judah and all you residents of Jerusalem, let me explain this to you and pay attention to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it’s only nine in the morning. On the contrary, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:


And it will be in the last days, says God,
that I will pour out My Spirit on all humanity;
then your sons and your daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
I will even pour out My Spirit
on My male and female slaves in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will display wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below:
blood and fire and a cloud of smoke.
The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the great and remarkable Day of the Lord comes.
Then everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Everyone who called on the name of the Lord was saved in the OT as well. It's just that, on Pentacost, the Spirit came in such a way as to be a sign that the New Covenant was about to be realized in its fullness.

 

[Neogaia777]

So what compelled them to believe in Jesus' testimony if the Spirit had not yet been given them? Was it their own free will in this case?

Jesus did... and IDK..?

God Bless!

 

[fhansen]

I suppose this thread is aimed more at Calvinists and their doctrine of total depravity, which inferrs that the inception of faith in Christ is solely the work of the Holy Spirit convincing one of the truth about Christ.

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This passage shows that people believed in Jesus before receiving the Holy Spirit (aparently). So what compelled them to believe in Jesus' testimony if the Spirit had not yet been given them? Was it their own free will in this case?

While we can always reject the gift of faith, we cannot obtain it on our own; The Holy Spirit must prepare us. In fact, the idea that faith can precede grace is known as Semi-Pelagianism.

 

[Jonaitis]

I suppose this thread is aimed more at Calvinists and their doctrine of total depravity, which inferrs that the inception of faith in Christ is solely the work of the Holy Spirit convincing one of the truth about Christ.

John 7:37-39

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This passage shows that people believed in Jesus before receiving the Holy Spirit (aparently). So what compelled them to believe in Jesus' testimony if the Spirit had not yet been given them? Was it their own free will in this case?

I think there is a misunderstanding. The indwelling presence comes after believing, rather, it is the act of regeneration that precedes faith. Once the Spirit quickens you from death to life, not only do you feel for salvation, but it is the immediate consequence to believe in Christ. Regeneration is absolutely necessary for someone to comprehend and receive the gospel, otherwise you remain in the depravity of your own will against it. The Spirit afterward seals the believer.