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Featured Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Yes, it is possible

  2. No, it is not possibe

  3. That is an absolutely ridiculous and absurb view

  4. Could it be OC Jerusalem 70ad or future Jerusalem?

  5. I had never thought about it

  6. Other

  7. Rome

    0 vote(s)
  8. New York

    0 vote(s)
  9. Moscow

    0 vote(s)
  10. Vatican City

    0 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Now we take a look at this Woman in Revelation 17:

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    Revelation 17:
    6 And I saw the Woman being drunk<3184> with the blood of the Saints, and with the blood of the Witnesses of Jesus.
    And having seen Her, I marvel<2296> with great wonder .

    15 And He says to me, “these the waters<5204> that thou saw, where the Prostitute sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
    16 And the ten Horns that thou saw, and the beast, These will hate the Prostitute<4204>,
    and having been desolated<2049> they shall be making Her
    and naked <1131>.
    And the fleshes<4561> of Her they shall be eating<5351>,
    and Her They shall be burning<2618> in fire<4442>.

    18 And the Woman <1135> whom thou saw is being the great City, having kingship over the kings of the land.”

    She appears to be symbolizing the evil Queen Jezebel, who is mentioned in Revelation 2:20, the Assembly in Thyatira

    jezebel (NKJV)

    "jezebel" occurs 22 times in 19 verses

    Revelation 2:20
    But I am having against thou much.
    That thou suffer<863> the Woman/Wife<1135> of thee, Jezebel, the One saying herself a prophetess<4398> to be and She is teaching<1321> and deceiving<4105> My bond-slaves<1401> to prostitute>4203> and to be eating<5315> idol-sacrifices.

    She is Mentioned in only 1 and 2 Kings of the OT and 1 verse in the NT.

    2 Kings 9:36
    Therefore they came back and told him. And he said,
    “This is the word of the LORD, which He spoke by His servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying,
    On the plot of ground at Jezreel dogs shall eat the flesh of Jezebel;[fn]
    ‘and the corpse of Jezebel shall be as refuse on the surface of the field, in the plot at Jezreel, so that they shall not say, “Here lies Jezebel.” ' ”

    Then She is shown saying She is not a widow:

    She who sits as queen, not widow, never mourns

    Revelation 18:7
    “In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment and sorrow;
    for She says in her heart, ‘I sit as Queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Poppaea, Sabina° | Encyclopedia.com

    Gerhard Baudy argued that Jewish messianic militants really did torch Rome in 64 AD, and (IIRC) may have even been backed by Persia.

    If so, then, perhaps after burning the city, pacifistic Christians were made the "fall guys" and literally scape-goated, for the actions of zealot Sicarii types? Who perceived it as a "win win", "two birds with one stone", with the help of their sympathetic empress?

    That picture would resonate with the imagery of Revelation, with an adulterous woman (Poppaea Sabina, who un-Torah-lawfully divorced her husband to marry Nero) riding the beast (pagan Roman imperial power structure) and drunk on the blood of the saints (Christians, whom she helped pin the blame of the Great Fire of Rome on) ?
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  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Jesus uses this word "gehenna" and addresses it mainly to these corrupt Judean rulers in Jerusalem in Matthew 23 [the Jerusalem/Temple discourse follows next in Matthew 24]

    1067. geena of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011);
    valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom),
    a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell
    G1067 γέεννα (geenna), occurs 12 times in 12 verses

    Matthew 23:
    15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! That ye are going about the sea and the dry<3584> to make one proselyte,
    and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV<1067> twofold-more of ye-selves
    33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
    the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!............
    [Ezekiel 39:12/Revelation 14:11 Revelation 19:3]

    Revelation 14:11

    And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages..........[Matthew 23:33-37 Luke 16:24-26]
    Revelation 19:3
    And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".
    [Ezekiel 22:17-22 Luke 21:22-23]

    GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    GEHENNA (Hebr. [​IMG]; Greek, Γέεννα):
    By: Kaufmann Kohler, Ludwig Blau
    Gehenna - Wikipedia
    The concept of Gehinnom
    Hebrew Bible
    Rabbinical Judaism
    Gehenna Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
    Encyclopedias - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Gehenna


    Will add more to this later...............

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    3 verses of 5 verses in Revelation that uses the phrase "into the ages of the ages"
    [The other 2 are used for Jesus [Revelation 1:18 and the Saints [Revelation 22:5]

    Verse 14:11 leaves out the article "the":

    Revelation 14:11

    And the Smoke of the tormenting of them into Ages of Ages is ascending.
    And not they are having rest of Day and of Night the Ones worshipping the Beast
    eiV <1519> aiwnaV <165> aiwnwn <165>

    Revelation 19:3
    and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"
    eiV touV aiwnaV twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

    Revelation 20:10
    And the Devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the Lake of the fire and of sulfur, the where also the Beast and the False-prophet.
    And they shall be being tormented of day and of night into the Ages of the Ages.
    eiV <1519> touV <3588> aiwnaV <165> twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>

    Doing a google search, I located a site that shows verses in the OT concerning Gehenna.

    What Does the Bible Say About Gehenna?
    100 Bible Verses about Gehenna

    2 Chronicles 28:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes
    And he made offerings in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom and burned his sons as an offering,
    according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel.

    2 Chronicles 33:6 ESV / 14 helpful votes
    And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers.
    He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger

    Jeremiah 7:31 ESV / 15 helpful votes
    And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire,
    which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.

    Isaiah 66:24 ESV / 14 helpful votes
    “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me.
    For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

    Joshua 15:8 ESV / 12 helpful votes
    Then the boundary goes up by the Valley of the Son of Hinnom at the southern shoulder of the Jebusite (that is, Jerusalem).
    And the boundary goes up to the top of the mountain that lies over against the Valley of Hinnom, on the west, at the northern end of the Valley of Rephaim.

    Joshua 18:16 ESV / 11 helpful votes
    Then the boundary goes down to the border of the mountain that overlooks the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which is at the north end of the Valley of Rephaim. And it then goes down the Valley of Hinnom, south of the shoulder of the Jebusites, and downward to En-rogel.

    2 Kings 16:3 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel.
    He even burned his son as an offering, according to the despicable practices of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel.

    Deuteronomy 32:22 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    For a fire is kindled by my anger, and it burns to the depths of Sheol,
    devours the earth and its increase, and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.

    Isaiah 30:33 ESV / 11 helpful votes
    For a burning place has long been prepared; indeed, for the king it is made ready, its pyre made deep and wide, with fire and wood in abundance;
    the breath of the Lord, like a stream of sulfur, kindles it.

    Jeremiah 32:35 ESV / 10 helpful votes
    They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech,
    though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    Jeremiah 19:2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
    And go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom at the entry of the Potsherd Gate, and proclaim there the words that I tell you.

    Jeremiah 7:32 ESV / 9 helpful votes
    Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter;
    for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere.

    Jeremiah 19:6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
    Therefore, behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom,
    but the Valley of Slaughter.

    Jeremiah 17:27 ESV / 7 helpful votes
    But if you do not listen to me, to keep the Sabbath day holy, and not to bear a burden and enter by the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day,
    then I will kindle a fire in its gates, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem and shall not be quenched.’”

    Malachi 4:1 ESV / 6 helpful votes
    “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble.
    The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

    Ezekiel 38:22 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur.

    Jeremiah 21:12 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    O house of David! Thus says the Lord: “‘Execute justice in the morning, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed, lest my wrath go forth like fire,
    and burn
    with none to quench it, because of your evil deeds.’”

    Jeremiah 7:20 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Therefore thus says the Lord God: behold, my anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place, upon man and beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruit of the ground;
    it will burn and not be quenched.”

    Jeremiah 4:4 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem;
    lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it,
    because of the evil of your deeds.”

    Isaiah 34:10 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever.
    From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
    none shall pass through it forever and ever.

    Isaiah 34:9 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into sulfur;
    her land shall become burning pitch.

    Psalm 11:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Let him rain coals on the wicked; fire and sulfur
    and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup.

    2 Kings 22:17 ESV / 5 helpful votes
    Because they have forsaken me and have made offerings to other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the work of their hands,
    therefore my wrath will be kindled against this place, and it will not be quenched.
    Revelation 19:3
    and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah
    and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"

    GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com
    GEHENNA (Hebr. [​IMG]; Greek, Γέεννα):
    By: Kaufmann Kohler, Ludwig Blau
    The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14).

    For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

    Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a).

    The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna)....
    The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there.
    It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a)..........


    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Very informative post.
    I must profess some slight ignorance of 1st century Roman history and this is one event I had, either never heard of, or just forgot about.
    Would this be one of the events that incited Rome to invade Israel and Judea?

    The Burning of Rome, 64 AD

    During the night of July 18, 64 AD, fire broke out in the merchant area of the city of Rome. Fanned by summer winds, the flames quickly spread through the dry, wooden structures of the Imperial City. Soon the fire took on a life of its own consuming all in its path for six days and seven nights. When the conflagration finally ran its course it left seventy percent of the city in smoldering ruins.

    Rumors soon arose accusing the Emperor Nero of ordering the torching of the city and standing on the summit of the Palatine playing his lyre as flames devoured the world around him. These rumors have never been confirmed. In fact, Nero rushed to Rome from his palace in Antium (Anzio) and ran about the city all that first night without his guards directing efforts to quell the blaze. But the rumors persisted and the Emperor looked for a scapegoat. He found it in the Christians, at that time a rather obscure religious sect with a small following in the city. To appease the masses, Nero literally had his victims fed to the lions during giant spectacles held in the city's remaining amphitheater.

    From the ashes of the fire rose a more spectacular Rome. A city made of marble and stone with wide streets, pedestrian arcades and ample supplies of water to quell any future blaze. The debris from the fire was used to fill the malaria-ridden marshes that had plagued the city for generations.................

    Of Rome's fourteen districts only four remained intact. Three were leveled to the ground. The other seven were reduced to a few scorched and mangled ruins."

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  6. One Son

    One Son New Member Supporter

    United States
    Is.66:1(ASV) Thus saith Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: what manner of house will ye build unto me? and what place shall be my rest?

    Is.65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
    18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

    Acts2:32 This Jesus did God raise up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.
    34 For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet.

    The lake of fire is in the footstool.

    Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.(2Cor.5:17)
  7. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    The History Channel credits Nero with Europe's first fire codes as a result. Of the fire of Rome. Streets had to be so wide and buildings had to be made of stone or brick are other non flammable materials for the first 3 stories. Above street level.
  8. Mark51

    Mark51 Newbie Supporter

    The "Great City" is "Babylon the Great" the "Harlot" or in simple term: World Empire of false Religion.

    The "Lake of Fire" is symbolic for a "second death" where there is no hope of a second resurrection.
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Matthew 23:33
    'Serpents! brood of vipers!
    how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

    2 Peter 3:12
    Toward-hoping/awaiting and hastening of the parousia of the day of the God,
    by which heavens, being being firey<4448>, shall be being dissolved<3089>, and elements burning-heat is being melted

    Revelation 18:
    12 “merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble;
    18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying,"What City is like to the great City"?

    Jer 9:7
    Therefore this is what the LORD Almighty says: “See, I will refine and test them, for what else can I do because of the sin of my people?

    Zec 13:9
    I will bring the one-third through the fire,
    Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested.
    They will call on My name, And I will answer them.
    I will say, ‘This is My people'; And each one will say, ‘The LORD is my God.' ”

    I just found a nice video that actually describes the furnace/fire of Jerusalem and Lake of Fire as a "crucible".


    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    I found 1 place where "false religion" used.

    Hosea mentions both a lion and bear, as is also in Revelation. Interesting.

    Hosea 5:
    1 “Hear this, you priests.
    Pay attention, you leaders of Israel.
    Listen, you members of the royal family.
    Judgment has been handed down against you.
    For you have led the people into a snare
    by worshiping the idols at Mizpah and Tabor.
    7 They have betrayed the honor of the LORD, bearing children that are not his.
    Now their false religion will devour them along with their wealth.
    14 I will be like a lion to Israel, like a strong young lion to Judah.
    I will tear them to pieces! I will carry them off,
    and no one will be left to rescue them.

    Hosea 13:8

    I will meet them like a bear deprived of her cubs;
    I will tear open their rib cage,
    And there I will devour them like a lion.
    The wild beast shall tear them.

    Rev 5:5
    But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose[fn] its seven seals.”

    Rev 13:2
    Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard,
    his feet were like the feet of a bear,
    and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
    The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    I sometimes wonder if Josephus' writing of the Jewish wars and 70ad Jerusalem in relation to the Olivet Discourse and Revelation could the catalyst for the surging popularity of "preterism/realized eschatology" and more away from futurism.


    The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archeological finds are pouring light onto the period of time reckoned by Preterists as “the last days”: AD30-70. When fleeing Jerusalem during the Roman siege, scribes sealed numerous texts into the caves of the southwest Dead Sea area. A portion of these was first discovered in 1947, with many more finds since then. Below are excerpts from the various scrolls. They collectively teach that they lived in “the end of days” and that a ruler was coming out of the East who would rule the world. Josephus and others reckoned this figure with Roman general Vespasian, who was indeed hailed Emperor by his legions while still in Palestine. Regardless, the glory of Christ’s throne outshines that of Vespasian to this day, and shows no sign of diminishing. The “War Scroll” pits the Romans against Israel, using the term “Kittim” or “Chaldea” to refer to the Roman Empire. The “Roman-Judean” end times view expressed in the Dead Sea Scrolls is also precisely what was taught by Daniel, Jesus, the first century Christians, and is also what is believed by Preterist Christians today.

  12. Dr. D Bunker

    Dr. D Bunker Member

    United States
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Why would Paul relate Hagar and Mt Sinai to Jerusalem?

    Gal 1:17
    nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me;
    but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
    Gal 4:
    25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is,
    and is in bondage with her children—
    30 But what is saying the Scripture 'be Casting-Out/ekbale <1544> (5628) the maid-servant and the son of her,
    for not no shall be tenanting/inheriting the son of the maid-servant with the son of the freeone.

    Always strive to link the 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse with Revelation and I promise you, the Bible will open up more to you than you ever dreamed of.........

    The Court in Revelation 11:2

    Revelation 11:2
    and the court/fold outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out/ekbale <1544> (5628)! out-side, and thou mayest not be measuring it, that she was given to the nations,
    and the Holy City they shall be trampling<3961> forty and two months

    Luke 21:24
    “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
    And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Rome is not in Judea.......:idea:

    Hosea 10:8
    And they are destroyed high places of vanity/aw'-ven, sin of . TIsraelhorn and weed shall come up on their altars, and they say to mountains<2022> 'cover us<3680>' and to hills<1389> 'fall on us' [Luke 23:30/Revelation 6:16]

    Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
    Mar 13:14 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
    Luke 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

    Luke 23:30
    "Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the mountains<3735>
    'be falling upon us!' and to the hills<1015> 'cover us!'". [Hosea 10:8][Matthew 24:15]

    List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia


    Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
    Map of ancient Jerusalem and its seven hills | Understanding the bible ...

    Map of ancient Jerusalem and its seven hills. ... and its Seven Hills. Where are Jerusalem's seven hills located on a map? Bible MappingUnderstanding The ...
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    Great post....
    Revelation 3:9 appears to be saying the OC false Jews will be worshiping at our feet, footstool under our feet.

    Romans 16:20
    The yet God of the Peace shall be crushing the Satan under the feet of ye in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>. [Revelation 3:9]
    The grace of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with ye.

    Revelation 1:1
    An-un-covering Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD/YHWH, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming in/en<1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>.

    Rev 3:9
    Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—
    indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet,
    and to know that I have loved you. [Romans 16:20]
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    It is as if Josephus is revealing to us the book of Revelation.

    Josephus mentions the City looking like a "Body of Fire" to distant onlookers/spectators viewing Jerusalem in flames. [note picture in my signature]

    Mat 13:42
    “and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Revelation 9:6
    And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
    and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

    Revelation 16:8
    Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

    Revelation 18:
    8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
    death and sorrow and famine.
    And in fire She shall be utterly burned,
    that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

    Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration. It had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ; and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames.
    He condescended even to entreat his soldiers to exert all their strength and activity for this purpose, and appointed a centurion of the guards to punish them if they again disregarded him : but all was in vain. The delirious rage of the soldiery knew no bounds. Eager for plunder and for slaughter, they alike contemned the solicitations and menaces of their General. Even while he was thus intent upon the preservation of the sanctuary, one of the soldiers was actually employed in setting fire to the door- posts, which caused the conflagration to become general.

    Titus and his officers were now compelled to retire, and none remained to check the fury of the soldiers or the flames.
    The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage. Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire.

    Those on the hill and those in the city
    seemed mutually to return the groans of each other.

    Revelation 18:

    10 Those from afar having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
    "Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
    That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.

    The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.
    The blood of the sufferers flowed in proportion to the rage of this de structive element ; and the number of the slain exceeded all calculation.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  17. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Well-Known Member

    What??? No. Jesus was crucified on the NW side of Jerusalem just outside the old city wall. Rome is said to be built on 7 hills.... but so is MECCA.
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    United States
    That appears to be correct......

    Revelation 11:

    2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
    and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.
    11 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Rev 14:20
    And the winepress was trampled outside the City, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.


    According to the New Testament, Golgotha was the name of the site where Jesus was crucified. Where is Golgotha located in Jerusalem? In their Archaeological Views column “Golgotha: Is the Holy Sepulchre Church Authentic?” in the May/June 2016 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Marcel Serr and Dieter Vieweger discuss past and current investigations into the site where Jesus was crucified.

    Where is Golgotha today? The exact location where Jesus was crucified is disputed. In the fourth century C.E., the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built at the site of Golgotha as identified by Roman emperor Constantine’s mother, Helena. However, scholars began to question this identification in the 19th century, since the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is inside the city walls of the present-day Old City of Jerusalem. Golgotha would have to have been located outside the city in accordance with Roman and Jewish customs of the time. The Gospels, too, seem to suggest that Jesus was crucified outside of the city (Mark 15:20; Matthew 27:31ff; John 19:17ff). So where is Golgotha located?

    Golgotha | hill, Jerusalem

    Golgotha, (Aramaic: “Skull”, )also called Calvary, (from Latin calva: “bald head,” or “skull”), skull-shaped hill in Jerusalem, the site of Jesus’ Crucifixion. It is referred to in all four Gospels. The hill of execution was outside the city walls of Jerusalem, apparently near a road and not far from the sepulchre where Jesus was buried. Its exact location is uncertain, but most scholars prefer either the spot now covered by the Church of the Holy Sepulchre or a hillock called Gordon’s Calvary just north of the Damascus Gate.

  19. grafted branch

    grafted branch New Member

    United States
    Hi LLoJ,

    I would like your opinion on Revelation20:10.

    KJV “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

    The Amplified Bible “Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).”

    The KJV has added the word “are” to make the verse easier to understand. My Amplified Bible has instead chosen to use the word “were”. If the word “were” is more accurate then this would imply that the beast and false prophet are both referring to Satan himself because he was bound in Revelation 20:2-3. It would also imply that the bottomless pit is the lake of fire.

    I am not sure how many other bible version use the word “were”. I assume that based on the context of the verse the translators chose which ever word they thought would best fit. I am a novice at best when it comes to Greek and how the grammar is to be understood. My question for you or anyone else on this forum is which version is more accurate any why.
  20. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    Interesting to note, in the greek there is neither "were" nor "are". It literally reads "where and the beast and false prophet"

    Revelation 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where and the beast and the false prophet, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.