• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Featured Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Yes, it is possible

    9.5%
  2. No, it is not possibe

    33.3%
  3. That is an absolutely ridiculous and absurb view

    23.8%
  4. Could it be OC Jerusalem 70ad or future Jerusalem?

    19.0%
  5. I had never thought about it

    4.8%
  6. Other

    14.3%
  7. Rome

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. New York

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Moscow

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Vatican City

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    It would appear so.

    I will post more on some of those words used in the "Lake of Fire" verses in next post........am eating lunch.........

    Eventually,I am going to be using both OT and NT passages.............



    .

    .
     
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    The equivalent Hebrew word for brimstone/sulphur is H1614.

    1614 gophriyth gof-reeth' probably feminine of 1613;
    properly, cypress- resin; by analogy, sulphur (as equally inflammable):--brimstone.
    1613 gopher go'-fer from an unused root,
    probably meaning to house in; a kind of tree or wood (as used for building), apparently the cypress:-- gopher.

    Strong's Hebrew: 1614. גָּפְרִית (gophrith) -- brimstone

    1614. gophrith

    Strong's Hebrew 1614
    7 Occurrences


    gā·p̄ə·rîṯ — 4 Occ.
    lə·ḡā·p̄ə·rîṯ — 1 Occ.
    wə·ḡā·p̄ə·rîṯ — 2 Occ.

    It is used in 7 verses
    "Fire brimstone" occur together in 11 verses

    Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
    fire brimstone occurs in 11 verses

    4 verses in OT:

    Genesis 19:24 [Luke 17:29]
    Then Yahweh rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah,
    from Yahweh from the heavens.

    Psalms 11:6
    Upon the wicked He will rain coals;
    Fire and brimstone and a burning wind
    Shall be the portion of their cup.

    Isaiah 30:33
    For Tophet was established of old, Yes, for the king it is prepared.
    He has made it deep and large; Its pyre is fire with much wood;
    The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone,Kindles it.

    Ezekiel 38:22
    “And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


    7 verses in NT. Only 1 verse outside of Revelation

    Luke 17:29 [Genesis 19:24]“but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

    6 verses Revelation [3 of those concerning the LoF]

    Revelation 9:
    17...... and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
    18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

    Revelation 14:10
    “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.


    Some facts about sulfur/brimstone:

    Fire and brimstone - Wikipedia
    Fire and brimstone (or, alternatively, brimstone and fire)
    is an idiomatic expression of referring to God's wrath in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the New Testament. In the Bible, it often appears in reference to the fate of the unfaithful. Brimstone, an archaic term synonymous with sulfur,[1] evokes the acrid odor of sulphur dioxide given off by lightning strikes.[2] Lightning was understood as divine punishment by many ancient religions; the association of sulphur with God's retribution is common in the Bible. The English phrase "fire and brimstone" originates in the King James Bible....................
    Brimstone was not only associated with the wrath of God or judgment but it was also used as a purifying agent. The Greek Orthodox would burn brimstone to ward off evil and disease.[citation needed] This is why God's breath is compared to brimstone and why brimstone is often used in carrying out divine judgment. That is, the brimstone is used to purify the land from evil.

    According to Jewish historian, Josephus, "Now this country is then so sadly burnt up, that nobody cares to come at it;... It was of old a most happy land, both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities, although it be now all burnt up. It is related how for the impiety of its inhabitants, it was burnt by lightning; in consequence of which there are still the remainders of that divine fire; and the traces (or shadows) of the five cities are still to be seen,..." (The Jewish War, book IV, end of ch. 8, in reference to Sodom.)...........................
    That concludes the study of "sulfur/brimstone in the Bible............

    We will be coming to Mystery Babylon/Harlot/Queen soon.........

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  3. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,281
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Ok, I can see that however He did say this...
    "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

    It may be safe that in both places He was referring to the people and not the physical place. This does not change my original thoughts.
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I would think that is likely.......

    Were you and/or others aware that there appears to be 2 different greek words for "Jerusalem" in the NT?

    G2419 (KJV)

    2419. Hierousalem
    of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
    G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm), which occurs 83 times in 80 verses

    TR — 83x in 3 unique form(s)
    Ἰερουσαλὴμ — 40x
    Ἰερουσαλήμ — 41x
    Ἱερουσάλημ — 2x


    This one is really interesting.

    It is used just 1 each in Matthew and Mark, [none in John]
    the rest in Luke, Acts, Epistles and Revelation

    Matthew 23:37
    O Jerusalem, G2419 Jerusalem, G2419 thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    Mark 11:1
    And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, G2419 unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,

    Luke 13:34
    O Jerusalem, G2419 Jerusalem, G2419 which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
    Luke 21:20
    20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem G2419 compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
    24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem G2419 shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
    Luke 23:28
    But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, G2419 weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.


    It is mentioned 3 times in Revelation

    Revelation 3:12
    Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, G2419 which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
    Revelation 21:2
    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, G2419 coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    Revelation 21:10
    And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, G2419 descending out of heaven from God,

    This other word for "Jerusalem"

    G2414 (KJV)

    2414. Hierosoluma
    of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
    G2414 matches the Greek (Hierosolyma), which occurs 59 times in 59 verses

    TR — 59x in 4 unique form(s)
    Ἰεροσόλυμα — 2x

    Ἱεροσόλυμα — 32x

    Ἱεροσολύμοις — 14x

    Ἱεροσολύμων — 11x


    1st time used:

    Matthew 2:1
    Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, G2414


    Last time used in Gospels

    John 12:12
    On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, G2414


    Last times used in NT. It is used in only 3 verses outside of the Gospels and Book of Acts, all in Galatians:

    Galatians 1:17
    17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem G2414 to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
    18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem G2414 to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
    Galatians 2:1
    Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem G2414 with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.




    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  5. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +397
    Protestant
    Married
    Yes ma'am, one verse latter, that was a part of his ironic utterance to the Pharisees, he was telling them he would die in Jerusalem in two days, then he says to the Jews I would have gathered you together [as "one" under God) and ye would not. Then in verse 35 he tells them your house is left desolate, and you shall not see me again until you [Jews] shall utter "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord" (Jesus at the Second Coming the Jews will call him Blessed who comes in the name of God).

    If the Jews had accepted Christ Jesus there would have been no Gentile Church Age, but alas God knew they wouldn't, hence the Prophecies. That is why we have a 2000 year gap in the 70th week.

    Jesus is only saying in verse 34 that he would have rescued them from their coming 70 AD destruction, if they had of repented and turned back unto God.
     
  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,281
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    I believe God always intended the Gentiles to be in the fold from the beginning. Israel is made up of many nations. He chose these peculiar people to reveal Himself. God in the flesh could be made manifest through the most righteous of many nations. There is no Gentile Church Age as God's promise is for all who believe in Him. Even if every Jew accepted Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Jesus Himself said He had more to bring into the fold furthermore, everyone of those regenerated Jews would know that the "good news" is about the Kingdom of God for all nations.

    Genesis 17
    When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
     
  7. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,226
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    maybe you could capture the sense of the Hebrew word for brimstone as "tinder stone", coming as it does from a root implying flammability?
     
  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +397
    Protestant
    Married
    "Intended" and "KNOWING" the future are two different things sister. God knew what their choices would be, thus His Holy Word shows the future to be X (Church Age), but His plans show he gave Israel a chance to go another way, Jesus even stated it as such, I would have gathered you unto me but you would not.

    All we have to do to see God's original plans is to look at the Statue of Daniel, he shows a Head of Gold (Babylon) followed by a Breast/Chest of Silver (Persia) followed by the Thighs of Bronze (Greece), followed by the Legs of Iron (Rome) and finally followed by TEN TOES of Iron and Clay mix which of course we know as the Little Horn/Anti-Christ.

    The Church via the Church Age delivered a Mortal Wound to the Beast System which could not overcome the Church (Jesus told Peter the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church). Rome, the Fourth Beast was converted from a Beast to a "Conveyor of the Gospel" over time with the largest ever Christian Church being headquartered there, those who sling arrows at the RCC disregard their place is Church history, sure, they went astray by mixing politics with the Church but so did the Church of England who persecuted people also, anything Government gets involved with becomes perverted, which is why the Pilgrims left for America. When the Church is Raptured the Beast System will start back up when the Little Horn/Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem to again become THE BEAST, the Mortal Wound is healed.

    In essence, the 70 AD event could have been the Zechariah 14 event, but Israel never accepted Christ, thus the 70th week judgment was not allowed to come forth, Israel has to repent during the 70th week, and they were not ready to repent. God knowing this and acting accordingly doesn't mean Israel did not have the chance to bring this to pass, it just means they missed their calling so to speak. I understand God knew what was going to happen. I am just pointing out God designed a "BUILDING" and then he waited 2000 years to finish it.

    Take away the Church Age and the Statue fits perfectly, the Legs of Iron and the 10 Toes. Also the Fourth Beast AND the coming Little Horn would fit perfectly as well a the 70th week. The point is, Israel NEVER REPENTED !! But they will shoerly accept Jesus as their Messiah, just after the Rapture and before the coming Day of the Lord.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  9. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,281
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    We will not see eye to eye on the subject of eschatology. I am a partial preterist and view Revelation as mostly speaking to the Christians at that time. Much to do with their situation and not a future date. Pretty much says it in the first sentence of Revelation.

    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

    I have to take this into consideration before I believe dispensation theology is the only way to interpret eschatology.

    Blessings.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Now onto the Great City and verses in the NT and OT relating to the "burning" of Her....

    The Greek word used for "burning", G4451, concerning the great City/Queen/Harlot in Revelation is rather unique, and used in only 3 verses.

    It comes from the root word G4442, [as mentioned in post #20]
    FIRE Post #20 G4442

    4451.
    purosis from 4448
    ignition, i.e. (specially), smelting (figuratively, conflagration, calamity as a test):--burning, trial.
    burning: Revelation 18:9, 18 that test ; the burning by which metals are roasted or reduced; by a figure drawn from the refiner's fire (on which cf. Proverbs 27:21), calamities or trials character: 1 Peter 4:12

    Matches the Greek πύρωσις (pyrōsis) occurs 3 times in 3 verses

    Revelation 18:
    9 The kings of the land, who committed sexual immorality and lived wantonly with her, will weep and wail over Her, when they look at the smoke of the firing<4451> of Her
    18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying,
    "What City is like to the great City"?

    Used in 1 other verse of the NT:

    1 Peter 4:12
    Beloved, think it not strange<3579> at the firery<4451> toward trial<3986> to ye becoming
    as if a strange-thing<3581> to ye befalling,

    Strong's Greek: 4451. πύρωσις (purósis) -- a burning, hence a refining

    Transliteration: purósis
    Phonetic Spelling: (poo'-ro-sis)
    Definition: a burning, a refining
    Usage: a burning, trial, fiery test.

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 4451: πύρωσις

    πύρωσις, πυρώσεως, ἡ (πυρόω), a burning: Revelation 18:9, 18; the burning by which metals are roasted or reduced; by a figure drawn from the refiner's fire (on which cf. Proverbs 27:21), calamities or trials that test character: 1 Peter 4:12 (Tertullian adv. Gnost. 12 ne expavescatis ustionem, quae agitur in vobis in tentationem), cf. 1 Peter 1:7 ((ἡ πύρωσις τῆς δοκιμασίας, 'Teaching etc. 16, 5 [ET])). (In the same and other senses by Aristotle, Theophrastus, Plutarch, others.)


    (Tertullian adv. Gnost. 12 ne expavescatis ustionem, quae agitur in vobis in tentationem), cf. 1 Peter 1:7 ((ἡ πύρωσις τῆς δοκιμασίας, 'Teaching etc. 16, 5 [ET])). (In the same and other senses by Aristotle, Theophrastus, Plutarch, others.)

    Strong's Greek Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com


    To be continued............

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  11. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

    +397
    Protestant
    Married
    Which only proves one must study diligently to understand things, because Satan is always trying to decieve us at every turn. I am going to prove via the scriptures that what you assume is incorrect, and I imagine I will still get a BUT, BUT, BUT by pretrist and partial-pretrist. Nevertheless, I will always share truth that enlightens people.

    100 percent Proof that Jesus never stated he was coming back shortly.

    Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Now the original 1611 KJV with NUMBERS in the back of every word to show us the ROOT WORDS.

    Rev. 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn,

    Don't worry about the spelling, it's the original type of the Old English, the point is THE NUMBERS behind each word, NOTICE that SHORTLY has two numbers, not one number behind it !! This is very important to understanding what this verse means. Let's look at the Root words meaning.

    1722 is the Greek word EN and it means a FIXED POSITION IN TIME basically.

    Via Strong's
    #1722 ἐν en {en}

    a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time
    or state),
    and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or
    constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between
    G1519 and G1537); TDNT - 2:537,233; prep
    —Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    5034 the Greek word TACHOS meaning IN HASTE, QUICKNESS/SPEED.

    #5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n
    —Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) quickness, speed
    —Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

    From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.
    —Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

    So, why is there two root words behind SHORTLY ? Because there was a DIFFERENT MEANING then what the English translated, it means no such thing as is translated, Jesus never stated he would return SHORTLY, but this below is what Jesus said via the very words that are in the ORIGINAL Greek !!

    At a FIXED MOMENT IN TIME (Remember, only the Father knows when Jesus will return, Jesus told us he doesn't even know when he will be sent back). Starting again..............

    At a FIXED MOMENT IN TIME (1722 EN) Jesus will return IN HASTE/SPEEDILY, which fits with 1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    We have to go deeper in our research, we can't take it for granted the translators got everything right, we have computers and the ability to dig these truths out.

    Jesus, at a fixed point in time, when the Father sends him, will come QUICKLY, IN HASTE. (In the future, when the Father tells him to return.) It's very dangerous to allow one verse to dictate our paths at any point in time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Yes indeed and correctomundo!
    But I would think that not everyone studies the Greek in depth as you and I.......else they would be Preterists like me :oldthumbsup: :ebil: :pray:


    1722. en a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),
    5034. tachos from the same as 5036; a brief space (of time), i.e. (with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

    Strong's Number G5034 matches the Greek τάχος (tachos),
    which occurs 7 times in 7 verses
    Luke 18:8 , Acts 12:7, Act 22:18, Acts 25:4, Romans 16:20, and Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 22:6

    "DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

    Luke 18
    7 The yet God not no should be doing<4160> the avenging<1557> of His Chosen-ones<1588>, of the ones ones imploring>994> to Him day and night and is being patient on them
    8 I am saying to ye, that He shall be doing<4160> the avenging to them In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
    moreover, the Son of Man coming consequently shall be finding the faith upon the earth ’
    Act 12:7 - and lo, a messenger of the Lord stood by, and a light shone in the buildings, and having smitten Peter on the side, he raised him up, saying, 'Rise in swiftness,' and his chains fell from off his hands.

    Romans 16:20
    The yet God of the Peace shall be crushing the Satan under the feet of ye In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
    The grace of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with ye.

    Revelation 1:1
    An-un-covering/veiling<602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him,
    which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

    Revelation 22:6
    And said to me: "These, the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets,
    commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servants of Him
    which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.


    http://mikeblume.com/symbrev.htm


    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  13. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    +1,480
    Christian
    Married
    As a preterist, I would say you have a good argument here. The greek word for "in" specifies not that the events of the revelation will occur soon or shortly in regards to nearness of time, but that the events themselves occur quickly in regards to speed from the start to completion.

    Revelation 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things to take place in quickness.

    However, we also have verse 3 to consider: "the time is near".
    Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

    So what we have here is that the events of revelation are near in time and when they occur, they will occur quickly.

    When IN is used with quickness, quickness is typically a noun

    You argument of "in" being a fixed point also agrees here:
    Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will give justice to them IN QUICKNESS. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
    Romans 16:20 The God of peace will IN QUICKNESS crush Satan under your feet

    How about here, was Paul's hope that he was going to come to them soon or that when he started to come to them he would travel very fast?
    1 Timothy 3:14-15 I hope to come to you IN QUICKNESS, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.

    however, When Jesus states "I am coming quickly", quickly is an adverb and there is no greek work for "in"

    Let's look at strongs definition with regards to the adverb of quickly:

    Neuter singular of tachus (as adverb); shortly, i.e. Without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily -- lightly, quickly.

    When Jesus states he is coming quickly, there is no greek word for "in". Your argument for a fixed point in time does not work in this case.

    Revelation 22:7 And behold, I am coming QUICKLY. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.
    Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming QUICKLY, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

    What would help your case is if the verb tenses of am coming were future instead of present. If Jesus stated "I will be coming quickly" or "I am going to be coming quickly", then your argument would have a little more support.

    james places the coming of the Lord as near

    James 5:8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord has drawn near.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Excellent post and good catch.
    Nigh/near also occurs 2 times in Revelation

    LUKE 21 MATTHEW 24 OLIVET DISCOURSE CONTROVERSY [Poll Thread]
    The time is nigh


    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
    for the Time is nigh/egguV <1451>.

    Revelation 22:10
    And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
    For the Time Is-nigh/egguV <1451>


    I am reminded of this verse when Joseph is called on to interpret some dreams Pharaoh was having
    and I notice a lot of events in Revelation are repeated twice, but in different ways.......
    Luke 21:
    8 - And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near<1448> go ye not therefore after them.
    20 - And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh<1448>.
    28 - And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.<1448>



    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    "DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    Isaiah 61:2
    To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
    And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohihm, To comfort all mourners.
    Luke 4:21
    and He began by saying,
    Today this Scripture/Writing<1124> is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

    In Luke 21:24 uses the same exact form of the word #1125 that is used in Revelation 1:3

    Luke 21:22
    22 That days of vengeance/ekdikhsewV <1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772), .

    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy,
    and keepings in it having been Written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
    for the time/season is nigh/egguV <1451>.


    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +615
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    The great city is apostate Jerusalem, it is not Rome. Rome is the beast that the woman rides..and there the woman is Israel.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

    +28,455
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Last post we looked at the Greek word #G4451:
    4451. purosis poo'-ro-sis from 4448; ignition, i.e. (specially), smelting (figuratively, conflagration, calamity as a test):--burning, trial.

    Revelation 18:
    9 ...when they look at the smoke of the firing<4451> of Her
    18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of the firing<4451>of Her saying....
    1 Peter 4:12
    Beloved, think it not strange<3579> at the firery<4451> toward trial<3986> to ye becoming.....


    Here is the word that G4451 is derived from:

    Strong's Greek: 4448. πυρόω (puroó) -- to set on fire, i.e. to burn (pass.)
    4448.
    puroo from 4442; to kindle, to kindle, i.e. (passively) to be ignited, glow (literally), be refined (by implication), or (figuratively) to be inflamed (with anger, grief, lust):--burn, fiery, be on fire, try.
    G4448 πυρόω (pyroō), occurs 6 times in 6 verses
    It occurs in 6 verses of the NT.
    4 verses in the Epistles and 2 in Revelation

    I put strong's #s with some of the words in case some may want to, not only look at the meaning of them, but also where they are used in other places in the NT.
    I particularly like this Lexicon/Concordance, but others may have a different preference.


    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    1 Corinthians 7:9
    and if they have not restraint<1467> -- let them marry,
    for it is better to marry than to be lustfully-inflamed<4448>;
    2 Corinthians 11:29
    Who is feeble<770>, and I am not being feeble? who is being snared<4624>, and not I am being inflamed<4448>;

    Ephesians 6:16
    In all, taken up the shield<2375> of the faith,
    in which ye shall be being able all the fiery<4448> darts<956> of the evil one to quench<4570>,

    Peter uses it in this verse concerning the "parousia" of the day of God"[Revelation 16:14].
    I show the different forms of #3952 at this link:

    Where is the Parousia of Matt 24 showing in Revelation?

    2 Peter 3:12
    Toward-hoping/awaiting<4328> and hastening<4692> of the parousian<3952> of the day of the God,
    by which heavens, being being kindled<4448>, shall be being dissolved<3089>, and elements<4747> burning-heat<2741> is being melted<5080>
    Revelation 1:15
    and His feet like to fine-brass/white-bronze<5474>, as in a furnace<2575> having been fired<4448>,
    and His voice as a sound of many waters<5204>,

    Revelation 3:18
    I counsel-together<4823> thee to buy from Me gold, having been fired/refined<4448> out of fire<4442>, that thou should be being rich,
    And white garments<2440> that thou should be being arrayed<4016>, and not may be being manifest<5319> the shame<152> of the nakedness<1132> of thee,
    And eye-salve<2854> to anoint the eyes of thee, that thou may be seeing.

    To be continued
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  18. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,226
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married


    The final minute showcases some seemingly excellent books about "Preterist Time Statements" and "Can God Tell Time?" relating to Revelation
     
  19. NJBeliever

    NJBeliever Newbie

    +38
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Mystery Babylon is end times Jerusalem under the rulership of Antichrist.
     
  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,226
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    yes, exactly, end of the OT age, 2000 years ago
     
Loading...