Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Could the Great City in Revelation be symbolizing the Lake of Fire?

  • Rome

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  • New York

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  • Moscow

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  • Vatican City

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Erik Nelson

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Honestly there is a debate among commentators as to whether or not Revelation 11:8 is speaking of the same city that is addressed later in the Book.

However, when Jesus was crucified Jerusalem was a part of Rome and under Roman rule. So it can be said that Jesus was crucified in Rome.
Jerusalem basically accepted all the blood guilt from Abel to Zechariah onto themselves and their children
 
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Revealing Times

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Hi I like the idea of examining the use the the term one hour and your idea is plausible. But I am not convinced as the merchants weep that no one is left to buy their luxury goods anymore.
So no one is left to buy their goods = The Seals, Trumpets and Vials.

The Anti-Christ/Little Horn is released at the First Seal, he kills 1/4 of all mankind by the time the 4th Seal is finished, he is all four of the first seals. That equals 1.5 to 2 billion people, he's killing all the Religious types who refuse to bow down unto him, and all nations who refuse to relent to his authority. That is why we see the Dead under the alter at the 5th Seal, then we get the 6th Seal where God signifies, you are in my wrath supernaturally, even though God's Wrath started at the very First Seal. So there is much war, much killings, etc. etc. before the Trumpets even start !!

The Trumpets bring limited destruction in 1/3's, a 1/3 of all the trees on earth burns up and all the grasses !! 1/3 of the sea turns to blood, 1/3 of all the sea creatures die (think shrimp/fish/food), 1/3 of all the ships are destroyed, 1/3 of the waters are poisoned, then 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars refuse to give their light. That is only four of the seven Trumpets, the other three are Woes !! These Trumpets above will no doubt hurt the Commerce severely !!

Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

The First Woe is Apollyon and his Demon hordes that are released from the bottomless pit, they can hurt and main for 5 months, but not kill, that is bad for the commerce no doubt. The Second Woe is a 200 Million Angelic Army that kills 1/3 of all Mankind remaining, that is another 1.5 Billion peoples, so in total that is 3 to 3.5 Billion people who are killed in one way or another, that is VERY, VERY BAD for the Commerce/Economy. The 3rd Woe is all Seven Vials rolled into one and we know what that brings, its the worst of the worst Plagues, then we have Armageddon via Seal # 6 and # 7.

So, that is why I say Babylon is the Whole World !! It's the Judgments of God against Mankind, Babel means Confused, those that follow Satan instead of God are by definition confused. God calls the Nations He defeats at Armageddon, Babylon in Rev. 16:19. So in essence half the people on earth die, and that destroys an economy, and we know (well I know) the Rapture happens before this so maybe a Billion or so Christians are in Heaven, and not on earth, so 3.5 Billion, and 1 Billion is 4.5 billion people not a part of the economy anymore, and to top that off the shrimp/sea fish etc. etc. are destroyed, 1/3 of all the trees are 1/3 of all fruit trees, nut trees coffee trees etc. etc.

The rest of the nations committed fornication with her. She exported all these things too. Seems to me in the text it is a centralized place.

It's a Metaphor for the World under Satan's rule. The Nations indeed fornicated with all things Satan, you are either of God or of this World, you can't serve two masters. Jesus said if you love THIS WORLD (Babylon) the love of God is not in you.

I have studied the NWO, illuminati UN and see the goal is 10 regions like the EU united with 10 heads and then one supreme head. There is a lot to glen through and some is ridiculous speculation however some of it is very telling.
I don't buy into the 10 nation/World Wide Regions thesis, I used to ponder on it but found it didn't fit properly with the scriptures. The Fourth Beast is Rome and this end time BEAST arises from the old Fourth Beast whilst also arising from one of the Four Generals of the Alexander the Great Kingdom, thus it has to be a MAN born in Greece, because that is the only one of the Four that is in the European Union. The Anti-Christ has to be born in BOTH PLACES at the same time, only Greece fits, he can be born there AND come to power in the E.U. because Greece is in the E.U. (SEE Dan. chapters 7 and 8)

This Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns is a Mediterranean Sea Region Beast and always has been. You start with Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and then you get the Last Beast who is a MAN !! The 10 Kings are European Kings.

I try to determine what the scriptures say will happen and imagine how current events will follow the arc of prophetic description. For instance the denarius for a quart of wheat over the whole earth is right now possible the day the dollar collapses. The US cannot fail without taking down all the other fiat money systems at the same time. Venezuela could collapse in an isolated manner but the dollar would effect the entire globe. The seal of the US is on one side New World Order written in Latin with the all seeing eye not set as the capstone on the pyramid. The EU government main building is built like the unfinished tower of Babel. There are hundreds of such things showing what psalm 2 describes as the nations taking counsel together against the Lord and his anointed. Thank you LORD for psalm 2 I long for the day when you laugh them to derision and set your king on your holy hill. You will give him the nations as his inheritance. This kingdom will have no end.

Good policy to follow.

As per the Money (Dearius/Dollar) I don't think the money being spoken of is a significant factor to be honest. I think it's just showing that the Labor is in vain. A lot of Christians in the USA will be taken with the Rapture, thus our nation will be left with the Liberal know nothings who will probably destroy the USA.

Well, just ponder these things brother, that's all we can do, God via the Holy Spirit gave me these truths a while back. I just share as others share their experiences, that is all we can do, share the Gospel and pray for clarity.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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So no one is left to buy their goods = The Seals, Trumpets and Vials.

The Anti-Christ/Little Horn is released at the First Seal, he kills 1/3 of all mankind by the time the 4th Seal is finished, he is all four of the first seals. That equals 1.5 to 2 billion people, he's killing all the Religious types who refuse to bow down unto him, and all nations who refuse to relent to his authority. That is why we see the Dead under the alter at the 5th Seal, then we get the 6th Seal where God signifies, you are in my wrath supernaturally, even though God's Wrath started at the very First Seal. So there is much war, much killings, etc. etc. before the Trumpets even start !!

The Trumpets bring limited destruction in 1/3's, a 1/3 of all the trees on earth burns up and all the grasses !! 1/3 of the sea turns to blood, 1/3 of all the sea creatures die (think shrimp/fish/food), 1/3 of all the ships are destroyed, 1/3 of the waters are poisoned, then 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars refuse to give their light. That is only four of the seven Trumpets, the other three are Woes !! These Trumpets above will no doubt hurt the Commerce severely !!

Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

The First Woe is Apollyon and his Demon hordes that are released from the bottomless pit, they can hurt and main for 5 months, but not kill, that is bad for the commerce no doubt. The Second Woe is a 200 Million Angelic Army that kills 1/4 of all Mankind remaining, that is another 1.5 Billion peoples, so in total that is 3 to 3.5 Billion people who are killed in one way or another, that is VERY, VERY BAD for the Commerce/Economy. The 3rd Woe is all Seven Vials rolled into one and we know what that brings, its the worst of the worst Plagues, then we have Armageddon via Seal numbers 6 and 7.

So, that is why I say Babylon is the Whole World !! It's the Judgments of God against Mankind, Babel means Confused, those that follow Satan instead of God are by definition confused. God calls the Nations He defeats at Armageddon, Babylon in Rev. 16:19. So in essence half the people on earth die, and that destroys an economy, and we know (well I know) the Rapture happens before this so maybe a Billion or so Christians are in Heaven, and not on earth, so 3.5 Billion, and 1 Billion is 4.5 billion people not a part of the economy anymore, and to top that off the shrimp/sea fish etc. etc. are destroyed, 1/3 of all the trees are 1/3 of all fruit trees, nut trees coffee trees etc. etc.



It's a Metaphor for the World under Satan's rule. The Nations indeed fornicated with all things Satan, you are either of God or of this World, you can't serve two masters. Jesus said if you love THIS WORLD (Babylon) the love of God is not in you.


I don't buy into the 10 nation these, I used to ponder on it but found it didn't fit properly with the scriptures. The Fourth Beast is Rome ad this end time BEAST arises from the Fourth Beast whilst also arising from one of the Four Generals of the Alexander the Great Kingdom, thus it has to be a MAN born in Greece, because that is the only one of the Four that is in the European Union. The Anti-Christ has to be born in BOTH PLACES at the same time, only Greece fits, he can be born their AND come to power in the E.U. because Greece is in the E.U.

This Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns is a Mediterranean Sea Region Beast and always has been. You start with Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and then you get the Last Beast who is a MAN !! The 10 Kings are European Kings.



Good policy to follow.

As per the Money (Dearius/Dollar) I don't think the money being spoken of is a significant factor to be honest. I think it's just showing that the Labor is in vain. A lot of Christians in the USA will be taken with the Rapture, thus our nation will be left with the Liberal know nothings who will probably destroy the USA.

Well, just ponder these things brother, that's all we can do, God via the Holy Spirit gave me these truths a while back.
Hi the scriptures are certainly going to play out and just like the LORD explained to the two disciples He met on the road all that the scriptures said would happen regarding Jesus 1st coming so too will they be clear when it has been accomplished. Right now we see things a slight bit different but overall on the same trajectory. Anyone can play the Holy Spirit gave me these truths and label it to their own individual interpretation so that is something I avoid as I am not going to take that type of authority on my opinions. The only way we can see who is right about Babylon the great city is to wait until it happens. I graciously stick with the idea of it being a specific place and the center of the trade and singular in her smoke ascending and all. My bet would be NYC or the USA. Your view has merit and I do not say you can't be correct. Others think Rome and still others have opinions. We all have the same application to love the LORD and be sharing the hope of the gospel.
 
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DavidPT

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Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!"

Revelation 18
23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”


How can a literal city be meant here, in Revelation 18? The text says---and of all who were slain on the earth. If some of those slain were slain in Rome, for example, some were slain in Moscow, as another example, so on and so on, and if the literal city of Jerusalem is meant in Revelation 18:23-24, how were they slain in Jerusalem if they were slain in other parts of the world instead?
 
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Revealing Times

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Hi the scriptures are certainly going to play out and just like the LORD explained to the two disciples He met on the road all that the scriptures said would happen regarding Jesus 1st coming so too will they be clear when it has been accomplished. Right now we see things a slight bit different but overall on the same trajectory. Anyone can play the Holy Spirit gave me these truths and label it to their own individual interpretation so that is something I avoid as I am not going to take that type of authority on my opinions. The only way we can see who is right about Babylon the great city is to wait until it happens. I graciously stick with the idea of it being a specific place and the center of the trade and singular in her smoke ascending and all. My bet would be NYC or the USA. Your view has merit and I do not say you can't be correct. Others think Rome and still others have opinions. We all have the same application to love the LORD and be sharing the hope of the gospel.

I have been a preacher for over 30 years, but I do not even get why young Christians (or any Christians for that matter) don't seem to be able to understand the voice of the Holy Spirit. I understand the difference between MY OPINIONS and the Holy Spirit's voice, so it's not a game brother. I would never say my opinion is from the Holy Spirit. My thread on Babylon starts out "I researched for months and wrote a blog starting out with Rome is "THAT GREAT CITY" in Rev. 17:18, then within a few months the Holy Spirit had told me I was wrong, that that Great City was not Rome, it was not a City or Nation etc. etc. etc. So hearing the Holy Spirit isn't about ONE'S OPINIONS brother, it's just the opposite, its yielding to the Spirit, hearing the Spirits voice, even when it tells us we are wrong.

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

I am just pointing out, all Christians should hear the voice of he Holy Spirit a and understand the difference between Him and our opinions.

And I do disagree, WAITING is like burying one's talent brother. Aren't we glad Paul and Peter didn't take that approach ? "Let's wait until the end to find out the truth", no brother, God wants His warriors to have a battle plan and to know the truth, we just have to seek His face.

So we can know...
 
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DavidPT

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I have been a preacher for over 30 years, but I do not even get why young Christians (or any Christians for that matter) don't seem to be able to understand the voice of the Holy Spirit. I understand the difference between MY OPINIONS and the Holy Spirit's voice, so it's not a game brother. I would never say my opinion is from the Holy Spirit. My thread on Babylon starts out "I researched for months and wrote a blog starting out with Rome is "THAT GREAT CITY" in Rev. 17:18, then within a few months the Holy Spirit had told me I was wrong, that that Great City was not Rome, it was not a City or Nation etc. etc. etc. So hearing the Holy Spirit isn't about ONE'S OPINIONS brother, it's just the opposite, its yielding to the Spirit, hearing the Spirits voice, even when it tells us we are wrong.

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

I am just pointing out, all Christians should hear the voice of he Holy Spirit a and understand the difference between Him and our opinions.

And I do disagree, WAITING is like burying one's talent brother. Aren't we glad Paul and Peter didn't take that approach ? "Let's wait until the end to find out the truth", no brother, God wants His warriors to have a battle plan and to know the truth, we just have to seek His face.

So we can know...



Take the rapture for example. Let's say there are two people who both claim, that they, too, understand the difference between the Holy Spirit's voice and their opinions. One of them claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have relvealed to them the rapture is Pretrib. The other one claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have revealed to them the rapture is Posttrib. Can you not see something wrong with this picture, that how one is using the alledged fact of the hearing of the Holy Spirit's voice in order to supposedly make their position seem more believable, thus shouldn't even be disputed? Maybe not in every case, but usually when someone goes out of their way to make a point about the Holy Spirit revealing things, thus their interpretation and understanding should not be questioned, should not be disputed, that is a big red flag, to say the least. And if my example with the Pretribber and Post tribber do not prove it, I guess nothing can, since both positions can't be correct, even though both are claiming the Holy Spirit's voice revealed these things to them.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Take the rapture for example. Let's say there are two people who both claim, that they, too, understand the difference between the Holy Spirit's voice and their opinions. One of them claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have relvealed to them the rapture is Pretrib. The other one claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have revealed to them the rapture is Posttrib. Can you not see something wrong with this picture, that how one is using the alledged fact of the hearing of the Holy Spirit's voice in order to supposedly make their position seem more believable, thus shouldn't even be disputed? Maybe not in every case, but usually when someone goes out of their way to make a point about the Holy Spirit revealing things, thus their interpretation and understanding should not be questioned, should not be disputed, that is a big red flag, to say the least. And if my example with the Pretribber and Post tribber do not prove it, I guess nothing can, since both positions can't be correct, even though both are claiming the Holy Spirit's voice revealed these things to them.
Hi you expressed what I was saying very well. I meant no offense to revealing times who seems offended and then referred to his 30 years as another appeal to having it correct. I also have 30 years on this subject and lay out the evidence and can have an opinion on some and the strength of my opinion goes higher on something the more clearly it is expressed in scripture. On this issue I agree it is future and will be literally fulfilled and will be 20/20 in the rear view mirror. I respect RT's opinion and meant no offense.
 
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Solomon Smith

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How can a literal city be meant here, in Revelation 18? The text says---and of all who were slain on the earth. If some of those slain were slain in Rome, for example, some were slain in Moscow, as another example, so on and so on, and if the literal city of Jerusalem is meant in Revelation 18:23-24, how were they slain in Jerusalem if they were slain in other parts of the world instead?

The Roman Empire covered the whole earth. The great city is Rome.
 
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Take the rapture for example. Let's say there are two people who both claim, that they, too, understand the difference between the Holy Spirit's voice and their opinions. One of them claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have relvealed to them the rapture is Pretrib. The other one claims the Holy Spirit's voice, and not their opinions, have revealed to them the rapture is Posttrib. Can you not see something wrong with this picture, that how one is using the alledged fact of the hearing of the Holy Spirit's voice in order to supposedly make their position seem more believable, thus shouldn't even be disputed? Maybe not in every case, but usually when someone goes out of their way to make a point about the Holy Spirit revealing things, thus their interpretation and understanding should not be questioned, should not be disputed, that is a big red flag, to say the least. And if my example with the Pretribber and Post tribber do not prove it, I guess nothing can, since both positions can't be correct, even though both are claiming the Holy Spirit's voice revealed these things to them.

The one that is deceived thus is not hearing the Holy Spirit, a deceived man can say anything. Satan lies continually, see him lying to Adam and Eve, "thou shalt not surely die". What I find is way to many people are half stepping on the bible and then trying to be teachers. It doesn't work that way, we have to be all in with God and we have to learn how to yield to the Holy Spirit.

When I say I hear the Holy Spirit it means it's settled with me and I could care less what ANY MAN SAYS, PERIOD !! Then again, I understand the difference between the Holy Spirit and my opinion(s).

The evidence is always in the scriptures, whereas I yielded to a correction on my Babylon blog, many people live in what's called the "Pride of life" they can't be wrong, so God can't teach them things they need to know. There is an OPINION on the Rapture which I had for 20-25 years, never thinking it was that important, then when I sought to place the book of Revelation in Chronological Order, I understood that the Rapture was very important and I thus came to God with a blank mind and said teach me the facts Lord.

So I read and read some more, studied and prayed, and when I got to the 19th chapter of Revelation, I saw how the Marriage to the Bride happens in Heaven while the Beast and his Minions are back on earth, getting ready for the battle of Armageddon against God, so there is no chance the Rapture can be Post Tribulation. So I then sought to nullify all the points of post trib via scriptures, I didn't just declare the book of Revelation discounted their beliefs, I sought to nullify each and every point they make, because I knew if it is not of God, then the scriptures would point it out on each point and counterpoint they make, and every point they made did not hold water when juxtaposed unto scriptures.

The scriptures plainly tell of a pre-trib rapture, its spelled out time and again, way too many people follow men's traditions instead of seeking God's face.
 
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Revealing Times

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Hi you expressed what I was saying very well. I meant no offense to revealing times who seems offended and then referred to his 30 years as another appeal to having it correct. I also have 30 years on this subject and lay out the evidence and can have an opinion on some and the strength of my opinion goes higher on something the more clearly it is expressed in scripture. On this issue I agree it is future and will be literally fulfilled and will be 20/20 in the rear view mirror. I respect RT's opinion and meant no offense.
None taken, I understood the argument brother, I just wanted to point out we all need to hear the Spirit in our daily walk. I understood the point you were making, no offence taken, I see so many people who say the same thing and never have heard the Holy Spirit. LOL....So you have to measure what is said by each person against the Scriptures, you are correct, 1000 percent, NEVER believe a man, always test it to see if it's of God. Which Is why I ask people to ponder and study things I say instead of believe them. Now if I hear a preacher, r read a book, and find I am in agreement 99.5 percent of the time with someone, I can hear something they say and put more trust into it right away, but I still want to test it. So you are doing the right thing, but also remember, just because you see something in another way, don't discount someone else's teachings unless God has expressly led you in another direction on a point.

I guess I need to write a book on Revelation, maybe I could make some money and become famous, LOLOL......But I just like sharing, preaching, and teaching, I like money, but God has provided plenty enough for me through my businesses/investments. I have been blessed, as we all have by God. I think my knowledge should be given freely. Which is why I come here and share. When my sister passed recently I stopped chatting for a couple of months, but I am feeling better now.

I don't take offence to these things brother, I understood your point. God Bless
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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None taken, I understood the argument brother, I just wanted to point out we all need to hear the Spirit in our daily walk. I understood the point you were making, no offence taken, I see so many people who say the same thing and never have heard the Holy Spirit. LOL....So you have to measure what is said by each person against the Scriptures, you are correct, 1000 percent, NEVER believe a man, always test it to see if it's of God. Which Is why I ask people to ponder and study things I say instead of believe them. Now if I hear a preacher, r read a book, and find I am in agreement 99.5 percent of the time with someone, I can hear something they say and put more trust into it right away, but I still want to test it. So you are doing the right thing, but also remember, just because you see something in another way, don't discount someone else's teachings unless God has expressly led you in another direction on a point.

I guess I need to write a book on Revelation, maybe I could make so money and become famous LOLOL......But I just like sharing, preaching, and teaching, I like money, but God has provided plenty enough for me through my businesses/investments. I have been blessed, as we all have by God. I think my knowledge should be given freely. Which is why I come here, when my sister passed recently I stopped chatting for a couple of months, but I am feeling better now.

I don't take offence to these things brother, I understood your point. God Bless
thanks for the kind words and the idea to write a book on Revelation I see more of a need to write a book on the Millennium as the 70th week of Daniel and tribulation are the birth canal fro the coming kingdom. All roads lead to Zechariah 14 where the LORD comes with all his saints and the LORD is king over all the earth. This ties together so many passages even the very 1st prophecy of the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent. The angel sounds the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our LORD and His Christ and he shall reign forever. so many things accomplished in this transition.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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How can a literal city be meant here, in Revelation 18? The text says---and of all who were slain on the earth. If some of those slain were slain in Rome, for example, some were slain in Moscow, as another example, so on and so on, and if the literal city of Jerusalem is meant in Revelation 18:23-24, how were they slain in Jerusalem if they were slain in other parts of the world instead?

The full verse:

Revelation 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Depending on the lens one reads this, I see four reasons why this is Jerusalem.
1) The blood of the prophets were only in the hands of the Jews. No other
nation at various times killed prophets.
2) The blood of the saints were also Jews as they sent out many to kill the Christians including Saul of Tarsus before 70ad.
3) With two confirming who did it, one can assume where they did it. Jerusalem.
4) Lastly, the phrase "and of all that were slain upon the earth", does not necessarily mean all people of the earth were slain, it could also mean a recap that all that were slain, both prophets and saints, were of the earth.

My humble take on it.
Blessings
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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The full verse:

Revelation 18:24
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Depending on the lens one reads this, I see four reasons why this is Jerusalem.
1) The blood of the prophets were only in the hands of the Jews. No other
nation at various times killed prophets.
2) The blood of the saints were also Jews as they sent out many to kill the Christians including Saul of Tarsus before 70ad.
3) With two confirming who did it, one can assume where they did it. Jerusalem.
4) Lastly, the phrase "and of all that were slain upon the earth", does not necessarily mean all people of the earth were slain, it could also mean a recap that all that were slain, both prophets and saints, were of the earth.

My humble take on it.
Blessings
Hi I do not think you can make the case for Jerusalem for a few reasons. Jesus said the blood of the prophets from Abel to Zechariah would come upon that generation and in 70AD that generation was there when Titus destroyed and scattered Israel and Jerusalem. It seems that a fresh round of persecution is happening and the souls under the alter are crying our for justice. The fact that in Zech 14 it shows Jerusalem being overrun on the day the LORD comes to save Israel and comes with His saints and on that day is king over all the earth and then reigns from Jerusalem would mean that Jerusalem is still there at the end of the tribulation. Also Jesus predicted Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles was over and in Rev we see Jerusalem is again said to be trampled for 42 months; which means at the end of the 42 months it wont be.
 
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thanks for the kind words and the idea to write a book on Revelation I see more of a need to write a book on the Millennium as the 70th week of Daniel and tribulation are the birth canal fro the coming kingdom. All roads lead to Zechariah 14 where the LORD comes with all his saints and the LORD is king over all the earth.

Yes, Zech. 14:1-2 is the Anti-Christ conquering Jerusalem to become THE BEAST, Zech. 14:3-4 is Jesus returning to defeat the Beast, so its all right there in 4 verses.
The angel sounds the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our LORD and His Christ and he shall reign forever. so many things accomplished in this transition.
Most people don't get this, but remember I told you I endeavored to put the book of Revelation in perfect Chronological Order and I have been able to do that. The verse you cited here is a very important point of order. Rev. 11 of course ends nothing, so why does it say Jesus takes over ? Because he does, but it a Parenthetical Citation, not a real time event.

1.) Rev. 1-3 is the 7 Churches or the Church Age on earth.

2.) Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church/Bride in Heaven before the Seals are opened (Midway point of Trib).

3. Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16 are the Seals, Trumpets and Vials, that is the order of the book of Revelation, chapters 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are not a art of the perfect Chronological Order of the book of Revelation.

4. Rev. 20 is the Judgment Seat. Rev. 21 and 22 is the hereafter/New Jerusalem.

So Rev. 1-3 is the Church Age, we see John RAPTURED in Rev. 4:1, and everything afterwards is during the 70th week/tribulation period. Rev. 4 and 5 shows the Church as already married to the Lamb because in Rev. 4:4 we see the Elders have their White Raiment on (Robes). In Rev. 5:9 we see they sang a new song that stated we are REDEEMED (angels aren't redeemed) out of every kindred, tongue, peoples and nation, and they say you (Jesus/Lamb) are to open the Seals !!

So it is the Church in Heaven, and they have on their White Robes, which is why Rev. 19 is not a part of the Chronological Order per se, Rev. 19 covers the full seven years of the Church in Heaven, its a Parenthetical Citation or a set-a-side chapter about a specific event, as Rev. 14 is about the Harvest and Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses, as Rev. 12 is about the Dragon/Satan being cast out of Heaven and chasing Israel into the Wilderness for 1260 days, as Rev. 13 is about The MAN BEAST arising out of the Gentile Sea via the Mediterranean Sea Region. As Rev. 17 is about the Harlot False Religions of ALL THE WORLD. And as Rev. 18 is about the FALSE GOVERNANCE of ALL THE WORLD. Likewise Rev. 19 is specifically about the Brides 7 years in Heaven.

Rev. 6 meanwhile is the Middle of the Week. It is when the First Seal is opened and the Anti-Christ is released to go forth Conquering and he thus becomes THE BEAST. Rev. ch 6 happens at the 1260 of Daniel ch. 12. NOTICE, the Beast rules for 1260 days (42 Months) so Rev. 13 starts at the exact SAME TIME as the First Seal in Ch. 6 is opened !! In Rev. 12 we see the Dragon chases Israel into the Wilderness for 1260 days (Time, times and half time) and thus it also starts at the EXACT SAME TIME !! Rev. 17 is the Beast and his 10 Kings destroying all Religions thus it starts in the Middle of the Week also. Rev. 18 is THE WHOLE WORLD getting hit with the Seal, Trumpets and Vials for 42 Months, thus it also starts with the opening of the very first Seal.

Of course Rev. 14 is the TWO HARVESTS, one by Jesus in vs. 14 sitting on a cloud (Rapture) and the other one happens at Armageddon at the end, so it covers a full 7 years. Rev. 19 covers a full 7 years also. Rev. 11 covers the Two-witnesses 1260 days, then shows the VICTORY OF Jesus via saying Jesus takes over. It's all about the Prayers of the Two-witnesses, they pray down all the Plagues that hit mankind. Thus after the die we are shown what their final prayers brg forth, the FINAL TRUMPET is the 3rd Woe, all 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe, we are shown it leads to victory without being given specifics, because this chapter is about the Two-witnesses, not the Seal, Trumpet and Vials, thus is why we are told the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe but are never told any specifics about the 2nd Woe, that happens in Ch. 9 of course.

So Basically chapter 6 is the most important chapter in the book of Revelation in that it is the Midway point. Chapters 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start and cover that same time period. Chapter 11 starts 75 days before the 1260, when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, the False Prophet is the 1290. Chapter 14 is both Harvests, the Church and the gathering of the Tres to be Burned, who stay on earth with Israel (Wheat) until the end. Chapter 19 is the Church Marrying the Lamb then returning to the Marriage Supper which is Armageddon.

Rev. 1-3 Church Age. Rev. 4&5 = the Church in Heaven as the Bride. Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15 and 16 is the proper order and that ENDS IT ALL according to the Angel who says "IT IS DONE". Then we get chapter 20, the Judgment Seat and of course 21 and 22. All the rest of the Chapters are EVENTS that happen at some point in time already covered by the other chapters, most cover chapter 6.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi I do not think you can make the case for Jerusalem for a few reasons. Jesus said the blood of the prophets from Abel to Zechariah would come upon that generation and in 70AD that generation was there when Titus destroyed and scattered Israel and Jerusalem. It seems that a fresh round of persecution is happening and the souls under the alter are crying our for justice. The fact that in Zech 14 it shows Jerusalem being overrun on the day the LORD comes to save Israel and comes with His saints and on that day is king over all the earth and then reigns from Jerusalem would mean that Jerusalem is still there at the end of the tribulation. Also Jesus predicted Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles was over and in Rev we see Jerusalem is again said to be trampled for 42 months; which means at the end of the 42 months it wont be.

Jesus made it clear that it is not possible for a Prophet to die outside Jerusalem. I wont argue HIM on that

Luke 13
31 At that hour some Pharisees came and told Jesus, Leave and get away from here, because Herod wants to kill you!”32 He told them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Listen! I am driving out demons and healing today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will finish my work. 33 But I must be on my way today, tomorrow, and the next day, because it’s not possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem.’
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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the judgement of Babylon (1 city) prefigures that of the beast (1 empire) prefigures that of Gog and Magog's sinful earth (1 planet)
Revelation escalates
Jerusalem basically accepted all the blood guilt from Abel to Zechariah onto themselves and their children
and so the pagan Roman empire was the beast of the sea
Interesting.
Thank you for your input E N.
Jesus made it clear that it is not possible for a Prophet to die outside Jerusalem. I wont argue HIM on that

Luke 13
31 At that hour some Pharisees came and told Jesus, Leave and get away from here, because Herod wants to kill you!”32 He told them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Listen! I am driving out demons and healing today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will finish my work. 33 But I must be on my way today, tomorrow, and the next day, because it’s not possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem.’
Good post and very helpful. Thanks for bringing that up M B .......
Revelation 19:20
...........Living were cast<906>, the two, into the Lake of the Fire the one burning<2545> in sulphur <2303>
Revelation 20:10
..........was cast into the Lake of the Fire and sulfur<2303>,..................
Revelation 21:8
.............the part of them in the Lake, the one burning<2545> Fire<4442> and sulphur<2303>, which is being the Death, the second-one.

.
3 of the verses of the phrase "Lake of Fire" contain the word "sulphur/brimstone<2303>".

This is the Lexicon/Concordance site I use for those interested:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

I like to look at similar word forms of particular Greek words, and I found this interesting.


2303. theion probably neuter of 2304
(in its original sense of flashing); sulphur:--brimstone.


2304. theios from 2316;
godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Curiously, the word for "GOD" has the first 3 letters of #2303

2316. theos theh'-os of uncertain affinity;
a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:--X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).
The other forms of G2306:
2306. theiodes from 2303 and 1491;
sulphur-like, i.e. sulphurous:--brimstone.

1491.
eidos from 1492;
a view, i.e. form (literally or figuratively):--appearance, fashion, shape, sight.
1493. eidoleion neuter of a presumed derivative of 1497;
an image-fane:--idol's temple.
1494. eidolothuton neuter of a compound of 1497 and a presumed derivative of 2380;
an image-sacrifice, i.e. part of an idolatrous offering:--(meat, thing that is) offered (in sacrifice, sacrificed) to (unto) idols.
1495. eidololatreia from 1497 and 2999;
image-worship (literally or figuratively):--idolatry.
1496. eidololatres from 1497 and the base of 3000;
an image- (servant or) worshipper (literally or figuratively):--idolater.
1497. eidolon from 1491;
an image (i.e. for worship); by implication, a heathen god, or (plural) the worship of such:--idol.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Strong's Number G2303 matches the Greek θεῖον (theion), occurs 7 times in 7 verses.

#G2303 occurs in 7 verses, 1 verse in Luke:
KJV)

Luke 17:29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
it rained fire<4442>and brimstone G2303 from heaven, and destroyed them all.


And 6 times in Revelation, including these 3:
Revelation 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. G2303
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, G2303 which issued out of their mouths.
Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone G2303 in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Will continue this on next post..........



.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Interesting.
Thank you for your input E N.
Good post and very helpful. Thanks for bringing that up M B .......
3 of the verses of the phrase "Lake of Fire" contain the word "sulphur/brimstone<2303>".

This is the Lexicon/Concordance site I use for those interested:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

I like to look at similar word forms of particular Greek words, and I found this interesting.


2303. theion probably neuter of 2304
(in its original sense of flashing); sulphur:--brimstone.


2304. theios from 2316;
godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Curiously, the word for "GOD" has the first 3 letters of #2303


The other forms of G2306:

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Strong's Number G2303 matches the Greek θεῖον (theion), occurs 7 times in 7 verses.

#G2303 occurs in 7 verses, 1 verse in Luke:
KJV)

Luke 17:29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
it rained fire<4442>and brimstone G2303 from heaven, and destroyed them all.


And 6 times in Revelation, including these 3:


Will continue this on next post..........



.
so brimstone is a Greek pun for supernatural divine fire?

fire from heaven
Luke 17:29=revelation 20:9
?

cp. proverbs 3:18
wisdom is the tree of life?
knowledge sacrifices wisdom??
 
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Revealing Times

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Jesus made it clear that it is not possible for a Prophet to die outside Jerusalem. I wont argue HIM on that

Luke 13
31 At that hour some Pharisees came and told Jesus, Leave and get away from here, because Herod wants to kill you!”32 He told them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Listen! I am driving out demons and healing today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will finish my work. 33 But I must be on my way today, tomorrow, and the next day, because it’s not possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem.’

Well since we know many Prophets have been killed outside of Jerusalem, we have to think to ourselves, why would Jesus say this !! Well of course he was being "SARCASTIC" implying that he didn't want to rob Jerusalem of what seemed to be her duty/fate with most prophets. (killing them).

Elliot's Commentary reads like this:

It cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.—The word used here for “it cannot be,” occurs in this passage only of the New Testament, and has a peculiar half-ironical force—“It is not meet, it would be at variance with the fitness of things, it is morally impossible.” Jerusalem had made the slaughter of the prophets a special prerogative, a monopoly, as has been said, of which none might rob her.

Jesus was being ironic in his speech, or sarcastic.

The Jews stoned Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah in Egypt, because he rebuked them for worshipping idols; and the Egyptians buried him by the side of Pharaoh's palace. The Egyptians loved him much, because he prayed and the beasts died which used to come up from the river Nile and devour men. These beasts were called 'crocodiles.' When Alexander the son of Philip, the Macedonian, came (to Egypt), he made enquiries about his grave, and took and brought him to Alexandria. This (prophet) during his life said to the Egyptians, 'a child shall be born--that is the Messiah--of a virgin, and He shall be laid in a crib2, and He will shake and cast down the idols.' From that time, and until Christ was born, the Egyptians used to set a virgin and a baby in a crib, and to worship him, because of what Jeremiah said to them, that He should be born in a crib.

Jeremiah/Place of death Egypt


Ezekiel the son of Buzi was of the priestly tribe, and from the land of Serîdâ3. The chief of the Jews who was in the land of the Chaldeans slew him, because he rebuked him for worshipping idols. He was buried in the grave of Arphaxar, the son of Shem, the son of Noah.

Ezekiel/Place of death Babylon.

They came to Jesus, basically mocking him that Herod was coming to kill him, and Jesus knowig their hearts basically let it be known, these are not Herod's doings, but rather your doings, you in Jerusalem have been killing the Prophets for eons, that is where I will no doubt die. But as we can see, every Prophet did not die in Jerusalem.
 
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