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Is the gospel more than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Genesis 4 is the Old Testament
     
  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    There was no Old Testament when Abraham was justified by his faith either. So Cain’s requirements for justification were no different than Abraham’s or Noah’s or anyone else’s. If justification came by works then the motivation would be irrelevant but if justification comes by the motivation behind the works then the works themselves are not what justifies us. So then the man who sells all his possessions to feed the poor would be justified by God even without love if justification came by works regardless of the motivation for the works. The thief on the cross didn’t do any works but what he did do is truly repent in his heart and acknowledged Jesus as his Lord and Savior.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am not sure what this has to do with it being a definition of the gospel. Do you believe these things are a definition of the gospel? I believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel and nothing more.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe there are two major covenants (i.e. the Old Covenant and the New Covenant) with the Old Covenant having different sub covenants. But we know there are only two major covenants.

    “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:9).

    The first covenant (testament) was established in blood.

    “Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.” (Hebrews 9:18).

    This first covenant was established in blood when God killed an animal to cover Adam and Eve’s nakedness. Thus began the animal sacrifices (Which pointed to the greater covenant in that Christ would be our Passover Lamb).

    In fact, even our Bibles are divided into two covenants (or two testaments).
    You would have to say that all bibles are in error if you disagree.
     
  5. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    I am simply asking you what did God tell Cain to do in that passage.

    I am not asking you to read into that passage
     
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I believe the Old Testament was only a part of God’s plan for salvation and that it was not fully revealed until the New Testament. I also believe that the blood offerings of animals was still not sufficient to enter Heaven and the righteous in Sheol were waiting for Christ’s crucifixion before they could enter Heaven. Hence “no one comes to The Father except thru Me”.
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I know, but your wanting me to disregard what has been revealed in the New Testament instead of taking the whole message into consideration. The Old Testament was specifically designed to be a stumbling block for the Jews and Genesis being a part of the Old Testament was part of that stumbling block.
     
  8. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    You heard of this concept call "anticipating revelation"?

    For example, you read that God preached the gospel to Abraham in Genesis 15 in Galatians 3, and you automatically assumed that means "Abraham must have known about Jesus, his death burial and resurrection"?
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I agree.

    I agree. The blood of goats and bull never took away sin permanently. It was only a temporary atonement and they had to keep revisiting the same past sins every year with more animal sacrifices. Only Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to deal with past sin of a person. If new sin is accrued by a person, they need to confess and forsake such sins in order for the atonement to be applied again. For sin is not of the faith.

    I believe faithful saints who die today still go to Abraham’s Bosom in the heart of the Earth or Sheol (i.e. the realm of the dead). I believe that after the Rapture takes place, the dead in Christ will rise first (out of Sheol), and then they which are alive will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the clouds. Then they shall forever be with the Lord. These Raptured saints will be in Heaven for 1,000 years until after the Judgment and the New Earth appears. Then they will receive new flesh and blood bodies to be with the Lord Jesus for all eternity.
     
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Yes I have to admit that I also think it is possible that the righteous may still be resting in Sheol until the rapture or judgement day. I’m not actually 100% convinced when people actually enter Heaven.
     
  11. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "1 Corinthians 15:1-4" is what Paul gave of the Gospel that was of First Importance. The rest of Paul's Gospel Revelation is found in all His Epistles.

    Does everyone know what "of first importance" means?

    We have the Four Gospel accounts, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which includes not only Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, but also all the instruction by Lord Jesus and the Apostles, on how the Passion of Christ pertains to us as regards our salvation - through the obedience to Christ that comes from faith.

    Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
    19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

    Matthew 24:10-15 (NIV)
    10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    1 Peter 4:17-19 (NIV) 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” 19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

    The entire New Testament is the Gospel Revelation, the mystery that was hidden in times past, but now made known by the command of God so that all may come to obedience of the faith.

    Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
    25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

    Colossians 1:3-5 (NIV) 3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people— 5 the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel
     
  12. IWalkAlone

    IWalkAlone Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus is the Kingdom, how will He dwell there?
     
  13. IWalkAlone

    IWalkAlone Well-Known Member

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    His commandments are about love.
     
  14. IWalkAlone

    IWalkAlone Well-Known Member

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    What about setting the captives free? Is that part of the gospel and what does it mean?
     
  15. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lord Jesus said the Truth sets us free.

    John 8:31-34 (NIV)
    31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
    34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

    Romans 6:1-7 (NIV)
    1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
     
  16. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10:1-4 says nothing about water baptism and in verse 4, we read - "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

    The gospel is not, "water baptized or condemned" and in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

    *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

    In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

    *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

    In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?” We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

    The gospel is a message of grace that is to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

    Again, we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) This is the act of obedience that saves. We are not saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). Don't confuse salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone - "faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in works" with James "faith only" - empty profession of faith that merely "claims" to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead. (James 2:14-26)

    Just acknowledging that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" is not the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Even the demons believe it "happened." We must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That is what it means to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and that is the act of obedience that saves. (Romans 10:16)

    Water baptism is a "work of righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-15; Titus 3:5) which "follows" believing in Christ unto salvation. (Acts 10:43-47)
     
  17. Fervent

    Fervent Well-Known Member

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    When Hebrews says the first covenant was dedicated with blood, it tells us what it's talking about:
    For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.”

    So to say it happened at Adam and Eve is to ignore what's written in the text.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    To clarify again to you (So that there is no confusion): I believe there are two aspects of salvation that believers need to be primarily concerned with.

    #1. 1st aspect of salvation is being saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation that is without the deeds of the Law and is based upon God’s mercy and forgiveness).

    #2. 2nd aspect of salvation is being saved by the Sanctification Process by the working of God within the believer (after they are saved by God’s grace).​

    For our other readers here (who may be recently joining us) to learn more in detail about these two aspects of salvation, I would encourage them to check out this thread here.

    Anyways, the gospel means, “good news.” We have to ask ourselves, what is at the heart of the good news in the Bible? Is the good news (at the heart) purely obedience alone? Or is it God’s grace? How is what God offering us the good news for our life? Can we start off living holy without first being saved by God’s grace? Is it good news if we just try to obey God and live holy without God’s grace and forgiveness? Is it good news if we refuse to first believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? Is not 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the gospel we stand upon? Is there another good news we stand upon besides 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

    The four gospels (the four accounts of the good news) is showing how Christ lived that perfect life in our place in order to do the exchange of Him dying in our place (in that He died for our sins), He was buried, and He took death (Which was the punishment for our sins) and He conquered it by the power of His glorious and beautiful resurrection. So 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the good news.

    Matthew 24:12-14 KJB says,
    12 “And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Is he that endures to the end the gospel message, too?
    Well, if we were to read this verse in a vacuum (ignoring other verses) we could end up wrongfully thinking that a Christian who denies in being saved by God’s grace (including a denial of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) could think that simply living holy alone is what saves a person. They could take this verse as “he that shall endure unto the end” as purely holy living to be saved and say that such a thing is the gospel.

    So we have to ask ourselves, what keeps me in the fight until the end against the sinful things of this world? Is it just God commanding me to live holy until the end? Or is it the love of God in that Christ died for me and for my sins?

    “For the love of Christ controls and compels us, because we have concluded this, that One died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that all those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and was raised for their sake.” (2 Corinthians 5:14-15) (AMP). (Note: KJB says constraineth - and this word can be defined as compelled. See this dictionary source here).

    Paul says in Romans 6 that sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under the law, but under grace (See: Romans 6:14). Granted, as I am sure you may already know, Paul is not claiming lawlessness here. For he already establishes shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? (Romans 6:1). I believe Paul is referring to the word “law” in Romans 6:14 as: “Law Alone Salvationism (Without God’s grace) via by the 613 Laws of Moses.” For as I stated before, Paul also says that he is under the Law of God or the Law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).

    In fact, when an early church believer was baptized in water (Which is something that was common for them to do back then when they first accepted Christ), they were experiencing also the real reality of being baptized into the Spirit. This baptism is what truly helps a believer to crucify the affections and lusts. “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,” (Romans 6:6).

    For Christ endured to His end so that we might be saved. That is what compels me to endure to the end amongst this sinful world. I want to conform to Christ’s likeness of His death because He died for me.

    In other words, if Matthew 24:13-14 is talking about enduring to the end as being the gospel, we have to peel back the layers to get to the deeper core or truth of it (if such is the case). So if such a thing is so: Matthew 24:13-14 would be saying that the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is what leads me to live a changed life in enduring to the end as Christ endured to His end. For I can only endure to the end and be changed and live for Him by focusing on what He did for me with His death, burial, and resurrection. His love compels me and it is not a command from God (Although God’s commands do have their place and purpose in our walk with the Lord). But the gospel is not reading the outward external working of our enduring to the end. It is the inward working of trusting in the gospel message (With His love) that compels me to keep going.

    Verse 13 says, “But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;” (1 Peter 4:13).

    So 1 Peter 4:17 goes back to the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. If we do not obey 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, we cannot live holy and die to ourselves and partake of Christ’s sufferings. We can only conform to Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection when we first receive the gospel message. To receive the gospel message is to obey the gospel (Which then in turn leads to the call of the gospel - 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). For God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously in godly in this present world. God’s grace is Jesus obeying God the Father so that He could be our substitute in dying in our place. Jesus’ whole life of obedience all the way to the cross was about God’s grace to us. This is how God’s grace can teach us by the way that Christ obeyed the Father, we also must obey and conform to the obedience to Christ and conform to the image of His death. We are to pick up our cross, deny ourselves and follow Him. But this is not possible without the gospel. For at the heart, these things can only be done by the gospel or good news found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. For if a person truly seeks forgiveness with their sins with the Lord Jesus and they obey the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, they will have a changed heart and life to live holy and righteous. So I don’t believe the good news is righteous living. It’s a call of the gospel but it is not the gospel itself because if I made righteous living solely as the basis of the foundation of my salvation, I would be lost because there would be no grace to wipe out my past slate of sin. God’s grace is the love of God. His love compels us to move and take action in living for Him. Without that there is no true obedience to God. We must move in love, and that can only happen we realize the depths of Christ’s love for us by He did for us with His dying for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is all about God’s grace. In being saved by God’s grace… it can also include seeking forgiveness of one’s sins with the Lord Jesus. But if a person is looking to justify sin, and they desire to sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Jesus, they really are not sorry over their sins and or seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord in the correct way. They want to serve two masters and they don’t want to be broken before God by His mercy and grace. The gospel is trusting what Christ did for us so as to be cleansed of sin. If we still live unto sin, we are not honoring His sacrifice, His burial, and resurrection.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Kingdoms are made up of people and they are not just a place, too. For you cannot have a kingdom with no king and no people. It would just be an empty place if there was no actual people. Yes, a kingdom can include a place, but it is not exclusively a place alone. The most important aspect of a kingdom is the people. For without the people or beings of that kingdom it would just be nothing.
     
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