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But that's the only way these guys can have a world without death.
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I think that such ideas are silly to even think about.
Jon Miller
Since I do not believe that any of Scripture contradicts any other part and since you are not skilled at mind reading you shouldn't have made such a claim.
The Bible says that the wages of sin was death; therefore before there was sin there was no death.
Then why did God tell Cain that "sin lieth at the door"?
Why should a question negate what is written about "sin and the law"?
The fact stated by Paul confirms what is in the scriptures from Adam to Moses, "the law" was not given by God until Moses recieved them.
Gen 26:5 makes it very clear that God had commandments , statutes and laws long before Moses was given the ten commandments on Horeb. Maybe you want to ignore that set of text's ,,,, No?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Abraham gave a the commandment of circimcision to his people, He commanded that when a male child is 8 days old he must be circumcized. Abraham gave the a commandment to strangers and slaves that they must be circumcized if they're within the borders of the camp. These are some of the commandments that Abraham kepts rather than the ten commandment you're using that isolated text to say.
That's truth you can find in text, rather than the 10 commandment Paul said was not given to Moses.
CRIB
I'm using that text to tell me what the truth of the Bible is. It is clear from Gen 26:5 that God had commandments, statutes and laws for mankind in Abraham's day. Some of us try to make it sound like there was no law before the ten commandments were given on Sinai. The Bible does not say that. Wasn't murder also a known sin back then according to the Genesis account of Cain murdering his brother? Wasn't adultery a known sin back then according to the Genesis account of Joseph with Potifer's wife? I think I could find examples of nearly all of the ten commandments given long before they were written by God on tables of stone on Horeb. Laws don't have to be written down to exist. They can be well known by all without any requirement of them being in a written language.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
You are bent on contradicting Paul about no law from Adam to Moses.
You are assuming that is what Paul meant. He means that until the law was written on stone vs. being transmitted orally. They knew before Sinai that it was wrong to kill (Abel and Cain), not to commit adultery (Abraham and his wife Sarah vs. Pharoah), wrong to worship other gods, etc..
The law existed before Sinai and Gen 26:5 prooves that point.
All it proves is that God gave Abraham some commandments. It does not prove that He gave Abraham the Ten Commandments. Big difference, especially since the Bible says that the law was not given before Sinai:GAL 3:15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
GAL 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
GAL 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
GAL 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.Adventist theology is blind to the possibility that the term commandments in the Bible doesn't always refer to the Decalogue. A lack of discernment on this issue makes way for the false accusations about antinomianism and "cheap grace" and "sinning with perceived impunity" that we see so often around here.
All it proves is that God gave Abraham some commandments. It does not prove that He gave Abraham the Ten Commandments. Big difference, especially since the Bible says that the law was not given before Sinai:GAL 3:15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
GAL 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
GAL 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
GAL 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.Adventist theology is blind to the possibility that the term commandments in the Bible doesn't always refer to the Decalogue. A lack of discernment on this issue makes way for the false accusations about antinomianism and "cheap grace" and "sinning with perceived impunity" that we see so often around here.
Can you name any one of the ten that you know for sure God hadn't communicated to the ancients? Sinning with perceived impunity is breaking God's commandments as a practice without confession or repentence. There is no lack of discernment on that kind of life style. I used to be baptist, I know how they believe and I know what I'm talking about.
BTW, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where it says we were ever saved by the law?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
After hours of shopping at Walmart, when I get to the cash register is when they itemize and total all my groceries.
Before God destroyed all flesh in the flood (besides Noah)
The offenses that God itemized on His register is the reason for His judgement.
Gen 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Gen 6:6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.
Gen 6:10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Gen 6:11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
God did not say "they broke my sabbath and my law" because the law was not the standard of judgment that God had set up with man. There was no "law covenant" to speak about. If you disagree, prove it.
What the cash register rings up is that man became wicked, violent, and corrupt and God regreted that he made man and so He sent the flood.
When you (and others) get backed in a corner, you start that question game that reasons the law and sabbath as given to Adam. The worse thing about that is, you render the word of God incomplete. So you (and others) rely on commentary that contradicts God's prophets and apostles.
In peace
CRIB
Crib,
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When did this become true? Before or after the flood?
Gen 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
This is when and how God decrees to Adam that the wage if sin will be death. "before the flood" to ADAM
Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
So when man was denied access to the tree of life, all men will die in the flesh because ADAM passed down death.
Another issue we have to contend with is the second death.
The soul that sinneth it shall die.
When each man commits sin he will die spiritually if he's in judge, unless by faith he recieves the gift of eternal life and become spiritually alive being raised up with Jesus.
.Dont delay to show us how you tie in the 10 commandment......I know you will try ask me a bunch question before posting isolated text plus commentary. CUT THE CHASE
Adam disobedience was sin which caused death on all mankind, It's correct to say that disobedience to God is sin but, any action against the image of God is sin. inhospitality and Sexual immorality was the reason for destroying Sodom an Gomorrah.So, Adam's disobedience "caused" sin, both for himself and all of mankind correct? So is it correct to say "disobedience" is sin?
What God taught us through Cain is that SIN want to rule over us but we should rule over it. So right from the start, SIN is whenever a person action is contrary to the mark of Holiness or righteousness.So why are we responsible for our own individual sin? For example, what kind of "disobedience to God" did those that died in the flood partake in? Why are then responsible if sin (disobedience to God) entered the world through Adam?
"School of hard knocks son"Oh, Crib, if you only displayed a nicer personality from time to time.
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