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Is the end closer than we think!

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DeleseRose, May 24, 2002.

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  1. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
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    Protestant
    He sounds a lot like Kenneth Gentry to me: somewhat confused and confusing. Such a view appears, IMHO, to be built around the assumption that holding out for a "future return" of Christ is all that is necessary to keep one's eschatological views within the bounds of acceptable orthodoxy.

    To get to the true Apostolic teaching, however, we must move beyond such labels as "preterist" and "futurist" and look at what we call "the eschatological hope" holistically, keeping our focus squarely upon the one decisive act of God in human history: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) is as good a starting place as any. Let us look, in particular, at vv. 29-31:

    Matthew, following the precedent of the Old Testament prophets, uses apocalyptic imagery to describe such "the coming of the Son of Man" after "the tribulation of those days" to "gather his elect from the four winds.” But what is this actually describing? The distinguished New Testament scholar N.T. Wright, in his book The Millennium Myth, (Westminster/John Knox 1999, pp. 41-42) addresses a popular misconception concerning this “coming.”

    So, if we are to fully understand the reality Jesus speaks of in the Olivet Discourse, we must, as Wright suggests, take seriously “the whole biblical picture.” In so doing, we will find that the often enigmatic apocalyptic language of the synoptics is interpreted more plainly within the canon itself.

    John (who gave us his fill of apocalyptic with Revelation) states in clear language in his Gospel the exact means by which Jesus gathers his elect:

    It would appear that John equates Jesus' death with "gather[ing] into one the children of God who are scattered abroad." Paul agrees, proclaiming that the cross is God’s instrument of reconciliation:

    But if the cross is the instrument through which Christ "gathers" his elect, what is the purpose of Matthew's apocalyptic imagery concerning something that, contextually, appears to be describing something that happens after the crucifixion? A careful reading of Matthew reveals that he is not ignorant of the significance of the cross in bringing "all these things" about:

    Luke, also, in an even more explicit manner, connects the cross with the cataclysmic "events" spoken of by Matthew and the other synoptics:

    (It is significant to note that he "curtain of the temple," guarding access to the Holy of Holies, was a tapestry resembling the stars of heaven.)

    Understanding the cross as the center of God's redemptive plan is key to understanding the eschatological prophecies concerning "the end of the age." For, in Christ, that "end" has come. Paul even goes so far as to equate Christ with "the end of the ages" (1 Corinthians 10:11). But history continues under the long shadow of the cross until it has served God's purpose in gathering all his people into one. For everything that God has spoken forth into being will endure for as long as it is accomplishing that for which he created it:

    Meanwhile, a "new" temple is being built, not of stones and mortar but, as Paul continues in his epistle to the Ephesians:

    This "temple" is, at one and the same time, a finished product (established from the foundation of the world) and a work in progress, building both upon and toward the ultimate victory of God in Christ.

    The big transition which takes place in the midst of history after the cross, however, is that any and every "event" which takes place from now on is understood by looking back to Calvary, whereas previously (that is, in the Old Testament), all such "events" looked forward to it.

    The fall of Jerusalem is the first major "event" to be understood from such a post-Calvary perspective. If one is looking for a precise event or series of events which bring the Olivet Discourse to fulfillment within history, one need look no further than the fall of Jerusalem some forty years after Jesus’ death and resurrection. Indeed, the fall of Jerusalem points us to the future, the consummation of the ages. But it does so by pointing us to an event which has already happened within human history: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For in this one decisive act, God has revealed for all time his will and purpose for humankind and, indeed, for all of creation. "All things" are to be restored to the splendor they had "in the beginning." The Risen Christ himself stands as the absolute, indisputable proof of this reality which transcends time and space, connecting our "present" with both the "past" and the "future." The Episcopal scholar George R. Sumner, in his essay "Turtles All the Way Down: Did Jesus Rise from the Grave?" states it well:

    There are countless other "events" which have taken place since the fall of Jerusalem which have, for one all too brief moment, caused the whole world (or a significant portion of it) to be reminded of God's eternal truth, established from the foundation of the world and made plain in the death and resurrection of Christ: Whenever we are confronted with the harsh reality of our sinfulness and its devastating consequences, we cannot seek refuge in a temple made by human hands. We must go "back to the future," to Calvary, to be crucified with Christ, and find there the only path God has provided for redemption, restoration and resurrection.

    What, then, is "the sign of the Son of Man?" It is the cross, shining with a splendor that outlasts the sun, the moon and the stars of heaven, casting its long shadow over the whole of human history, gathering God's elect and reconciling all things to God in Christ.

    Vain speculations about “the end of the world” do not serve the kingdom of God well. Good stewards of the mysteries of God will guard well the grand depositum of faith bequeathed to us by the Apostles, who received it from our Lord himself. Central to the proclamation of the kingdom of God is the cross of Jesus Christ which is, at one and the same time, the sign and symbol of both the suffering servant and the glorified Son of Man who is forevermore King of kings and Lord of lords.
     
  2. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation" Mark 3:28-29.

    " And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Rev 13:16-18

    "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." Rev 14:11

    I don't think we will be able to take the mark without knowing exactly what we are doing. Read the context of the passages in Revelation dealing with the mark. It will be closely linked with the beast, his image, and false worship. There will be an angel proclaiming a warning not to take the mark (Rev14:6-11), and most likely many of the seal and/or trumpet judgements will have already happened.

    I would not personally take a chip in my body for alot of different reasons, but I don't think we need to worry that we might accidentally take the mark.
     
  3. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
    +3
    Protestant
    In Hebrew and Greco-Roman culture, the forehead was the seat of perception, where one's inner being was shaped. The right hand was the seat of action, where one gave outward expression to their inner orientation. To have the "mark" on one's forehead means to have one's inner being shaped by the nature of the Beast, namely, blasphemy against God. To have the "mark" on one's right hand is to give outward expression to that inward orientation, that is, to manifest in one's actions the Beast's blasphemy.

    The "Beast" is any entity, secular or ecclesiastical, which is corrupted by the fallen order and sets itself up in opposition to God and God's people, demanding the worship and homage due only to God.

    In other words, we must be constantly vigilant because we can indeed "take the mark without knowing exactly what we are doing."
     
  4. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Get a clue. How would that stop anyone from buying or selling???
    It appears you have more questions than answers. Someone that believes in your view of eschatology has to explain away too many things in the bible. Why believe any of it, if you don't believe all of it?? Just one clue : The Bible is not a Fairy Tale, and we are having lots of problems with you trying to force your view that requires no faith, into a forum that is designed for those of us who choose to have faith in something that we cannot see. That's what faith is all about. The problem comes in when people like yourself try to understand spiritual things with your human mind, and because you can't see it, you pollute the entire forum with your unbelief. Why do you insist on remaining in a forum that wasn't designed for you?? Don't you ever feel like a fish out of water, or a car out of gas??
     
  5. Patmosman_sga

    Patmosman_sga Member

    375
    +3
    Protestant
    You are truly a piece of work. I guess I just need a good laugh every now and then. I would suggest that the one who needs to be reminded that the Bible is not a fairy tale is you.
     
  6. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    Just a few things I think don't fit in with your interpretation. Please don't take offense.

     
  7. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Hello food4thought,
    Welcome and Amen to your post!! You are a pleasant surprise to this forum today. As you can tell, some here only come for a good laugh, not realizing that they themselves are fulfilling prophecy. They are the scoffers of the last days. But I see them as having a different motive than they are willing to admit. They are here to divide the brethren. Who knows, maybe they are jealous of the faith that we have??
     
  8. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

    +562
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    I won't guess as to their motives. I do hope that my faith provokes them to jealousy, leading to an increase in theirs.


    Shalom :wave: Mike
     
  9. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Note that Jesus didn't say "no one will know the day" (future tense) but "no one knows the day" (present tense in translation, perfect tense in Greek). Note the exact correlation of the phrase and tense of "knoweth no man" in Matthew 24:36 and 1 Corinthians 2:11-12: "Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God." See also: "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth... and he will shew you things to come" (John 16:13).
     
  10. BlueGirlBby

    BlueGirlBby New Member

    31
    +0
    yes i think the end is near ,by looking at all the things that are happening.
     
  11. closer

    closer New Member

    38
    +0
    Do we realize that the issue we are dealing with is the unleashed power of Satan and the unquenchable wrath of God. 100 years ago no person would believe we are doing what we are doing now. The fact that Christian influence has greatly been hindered over the last 2 centuries leads us to know that the ignorance of the world could usher in a cashless system. Just look at electronic bill paying, deposits, and internet purchases.
     
  12. celtic_crusader

    celtic_crusader Crusading Against Jihad

    282
    +0
    I gotta wonder , If this mark of the beast is a litral mark , then are all the things said in revelations litral???

     

    EG. straight after rev ch 13 ,within the same context and explination of the beasts mark, in the first verse of ch 14 , are the 144000 (12 multiplied) isrealite saints , is that a litral number and then we would have to wonder , is god going to litraly wright his name on there foreheads???? are they litraly 12000 from the 12 tribes of Isreal , considering 10 tribes are extinct??????

    Revelation 14
    <SUP>1</SUP>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.


    I have often wondered why people take something that is only mentioned in revelations and make huge doctrines out of it???

    Ya just gotta wonder???? :scratch:

    &nbsp;

    Celtic.
     
  13. Brian45

    Brian45 Senior Member

    +147
    Christian
    Single
    I have heard it said , that when the time comes , a particular group of religious jews will have the understanding of the meaning of 666 and the mark on forehead and hand .

    I sometimes wonder if this is more literal than spiritual , have a quick look at these :

    http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/tefillin/ashkenaz.htm


    http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/tefillin.html

    In the book of revelation ,&nbsp; Gods two witnesses are thumping out there message&nbsp; from Jerusalem .

    I wonder ?

    &nbsp;

    DANIEL&nbsp; 7

    <SUP>25</SUP>He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shall persecute<SUP>[4]</SUP> the saints of the Most High,
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And shall intend to change times and law.
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Then the saints shall be given into his hand
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For a time and times and half a time.

    &nbsp;

    The above verse is very interesting&nbsp; , change times and law of what ?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Could it be the times and law of the wearing of the tefillin / phylactery&nbsp; ?

    <SUP></SUP>&nbsp;
     
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