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Is the Earth Flat?

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by Thomas White, Jul 27, 2021.

Degrees of Earth flatness:

  1. It's not flat. It's a giant, spinning spaceball.

    32 vote(s)
    82.1%
  2. It's flat, but all the other planets are giant, spinning spaceballs.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. It's flat, and a dome surrounds it.

    3 vote(s)
    7.7%
  4. It's flat, a dome surrounds it, and the Earth is the center of the universe.

    2 vote(s)
    5.1%
  5. It's flat, domed, and planets/stars are actually illusions/objects in the dome.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. It's all of the above, and the government is covering it all up at the behest of Satan.

    2 vote(s)
    5.1%
  1. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    And as I will keep saying to you, nowhere does God plainly state the earth is flat. If there was such a verse I would believe it, but there isn't.

    Joshua 10:12-15 indicates what Joshua thought, his perception of things. It is Joshua speaking not God.

    12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

    “Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
    and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
    13 So the sun stood still,
    and the moon stopped,
    till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,

    as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

    And it isn't even his own thoughts, he is quoting from the book of Jashar. The Book of Jashar isn't even scripture.

    I have no doubt the sun stood still, however it was done it was a miracle but this is not proof of God teaching us the world is flat.

    Science only has the fallen world to test, tests run by ungodly men who ignore anything that runs contrary to their own previously held world view of evolution. We both know this. This does not make all science a lie though, it has given us plastics, medicines, the internet and more.
     
  2. JulieB67

    JulieB67 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does change the entire meaning of the sentence and that's the point.


    I agree.

    I also said in the very next sentence that one has to take the entire bible as a whole to find out these truths. Once we do this the Genesis verses click into place.

    If one does a study on the Hebrew words "tohu-va bohu" we see that the earth at the beginning of Genesis was in a state of ruin and covered in water. But when we take the bible as a whole we see he did not create it that way. And he states in Isaiah that he did not create it that way. And so if he states that, I choose to believe him. Why would I believe otherwise?

    Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else.

    The Hebrew word for vain is the same word used to in Genesis 1 for "without form and void"- tohu. So we can see by this verse that he did not create it tohu.

    And yes, we know it took 6 days for this present age to come into being but the earth was here and covered in water. This is biblical.

    So we also have to ask ourselves when studying this, why is the earth covered in water at that point if God created it not tohu and formed it to be inhabited? So much so that he had to divide them for dry land to appear?


    Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

    This is the bible declaring the heavens and earth are of "old" Proving that the bible does not contradict science on this aspect.

    II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

    This is where you take it back to this verse,

    Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

    The earth is at this point covered in water. Which again takes you back to Peter saying by the word of God this a truth and a truth that people are willingly ignorant about.




    II Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

    The heavens and the earth which are "now" is talking about the 6 days creation. Peter is making it very clear.


    And again, not one Christian is willingly ignorant about Noah's flood.

    I've already debated this on numerous threads and I know people are not going to sway one way or the other but I choose to believe that God would not create a world covered in water. I choose to believe as Isaiah states that he did not create it without form and void. I believe it "became" that way.

    Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

    Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

    This is God shaking the earth, even moving mountains in his anger. This is why on some maps certain places look like they used to fit together and why some animal fossils found in certain regions don't fit with the present climate and so on.

    Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

    At this time, no man or animal survived. Unlike Noah's flood.

    Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

    It was paradise at one time. And he created it that way. He as Isaiah states did not create it tohu. He created it to be inhabited and it was.

    This was the same time when when all the morning stars sang together and the sons of God danced together.

    Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"


    Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

    This starts the present day age of creation during this earth age. We see he separted the waters and allowed dry land to appear.

    And as we see in Jeremiah 4:23. there was no light proving again this was not about Noah's flood. He also didn't move hills in Noah's flood. This was truly a shaking and that entire age persished. No life whatsover left behind. But we do find the fossils from that time period.

    I'm not really out to change anyone's minds on this subject. I just wanted to state why I believe the Bible when taken as a whole shows that the earth was covered in water and why it became so.

    Sorry again, for derailing the thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  3. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    They went up on the breadth of the earth ​
     
  4. BeyondET

    BeyondET Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Habakkuk 1:6
    For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans—that ruthless and impetuous nation which marches through the breadth of the earth to seize dwellings not their own.
     
  5. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    The point you have missed is the word in Genesis means 'was' not 'became'
    But obviously I can't change your mind.
     
  6. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

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    Oh Mark, you card! :ahah:
     
  7. LeGato

    LeGato LCMS/Crypto-Amish

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    Indeed it is. There are 200 verses in the Bible that confirm this.
     
  8. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Flat, motionless, enclosed. Strangely, just as scripture describes it. Such a pity that most professing Christians even deny Biblical cosmology.

    If we speak of earthly things and ye do not believe, how then shall ye believe when we speak of heavenly things?

    Let God be true and every man a liar.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    There is not a single verse where God speaks saying that the earth is motionless and flat. As far as being enclosed there are many ways that can be viewed. Certainly I believe it was enclosed by the firmament originally but that has gone.

    God says he created in 6 days and rested on the seventh. Plain as day in Exodus.
    Exodus 20:1
    And God spoke all these words:
    11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


    No where does he says "the earth is flat and motionless"
    That is conjecture on your part because there is no such verse.

    Since God doesn't say it, it is not God we are denying. We are denying your interpretation of scripture because no clear scripture about it exists. If you personally want to take verses about pillars, tents and measuring rods to mean 'flat, immovable earth' that is your own business but stop saying we are denying what God says when God never says anything of the kind.
     
  10. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    There are zero verses in scripture where God says "The earth is flat and motionless"
     
  11. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    I'll take that challenge.

    On motion:
    You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever (Ps 104:5).

    Doesn't get any clearer than that.

    On shape:
    Didn't you see the illustrated Job 38:14 in my last post? Or do you say the Spirit now uses imperfect and deceptive metaphors? Or maybe you know something of the ancient clayballs?

    Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line across it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

    Nothing there consistent with a spinning spaceball. Ay Caramba!

    The scriptures and the power of God are lost on those who think they know better.
     
  12. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    Okay lets look at this verse.
    I don't see the word flat mentioned at all.

    Second, its talking about foundations. We also know the earth does not sit on a foundation, it is suspended over nothing.
    Job 26:7
    He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.

    Apart from which a foundation is a literal thing, trenches dug down into the earth with steel rods with concrete poured into them. So foundation here is not literal, which leaves the word foundation open for interpretation.

    'should not be moved forever' This is also open for interpretation.
    You say not moved at all, others say not moved from its orbit, others say not moved from side to side or up and down. All three of those views fit and they fit because it's a Psalm.

    Psalms are poems and songs, not history, not law.
    Psalms also say "Let the rivers clap their hands, let the mountains sing together for joy"
    psalm 98
    . I don't see you pointing to that psalm and claiming rivers have hands to clap with and mountains vocal cords to sing.
    I assume like the rest of us you understand the Psalm is using poetic language not literal language.
    You can't build a doctrine upon a Psalm, something that is known to be figurative and uses poetic language. By its very nature poetic language is open to personal interpretation.
    One person reads that and pictures flowers blooming on the hillside while the other person picture grass waving. That is the point of a poem, it is personal.

    If you can point to psalm 104 and say this is an iron clad argument for a flat stationary earth then I could point to Psalm 98 and claim that rivers have hands and mountains have vocal cords. I should hope you would say no, that language is poetry and it is not literally saying rivers have hands and mountains sing.

    Also lastly and also just as important. Notice I said a verse where God says.
    In Exodus it is God speaking. Verse one says so. Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words: and then the chapter continues all the words that God spoke. It is God himself who said that he created in 6 days. God was directly instructing the Israelite's, it is an event in history. It is literal.

    All scripture is indeed God breathed but this verse isn't God speaking. Psalm 104 like psalm 98 is a praise to God by David (or probably by David) and if you read over it you will see it is full to bursting with poetic non literal word choices.
    It is a beautiful Psalm but it is not God instructing us on how the world was literally formed.

    God is speaking here but again we can see that he is not using literal language. We know that God did not dig a foundation and pour concrete, nor did he lay down a literal corner stone, which also means he didn't take a giant ruler either. The language here is symbolic.

    Now you could say "who hath stretched the line across it?" could be possibly hinting to a flat earth. But hints and possibilities are not iron clad teachings. They are not the same as God directly teaching something as an absolute. Symbolic, poetic lanauge is always open for personal interpretation. I can take a ruler and lay it flat in my backyard and use it to measure from one fence to the other fence.That isn't proof of the shape of the entire world.

    I never said there was. I also never said science has it all sewn up either. What I am saying is that God does not instruct us about the shape or flatness of the earth at all except for saying it looks like a circle from a distance and sits over nothing. Meaning we can at least know that it isn't a cube or a pyramid and we can know it isn't sitting on an elephant or anything else. The rest to how round or flat is is, is speculation based off poetry.

    I believe God wants us to focus on Jesus and sin-which leads back to where sin came from-Adam and Eve and creation. But this in no way impacts if the person believes in round, flat or a potato shaped earth. You think I can't measure a potato with a ruler? I just did, I took my sons ruler and measured a potato, it was 7cm.

    That I agree with but an argument based off poetry is not only not convincing it simply isn't good Bible study.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  13. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Who is 'we', and how do they know the earth doesn't have literal foundations? Because the Bible doesn't teach it. It hangs on nothing, from nothing, it is suspended over the great deep. Simple for those not in the pretzel-making business.

    [​IMG]

    Well, those latter claims would be false on current astrophysics, which claims orbits decay, the earth nutates and translates. So God's been lying to us in poetry? Diabolical.

    And the point of God is that He's perfect. And perfect beings don't make imperfect figures of speech. If the metaphor is a flat earth, you can be sure the HS ain't elegising gyrating spaceballs.

    Apparently He's only instructing you when it fits with your presuppositions. Rest of the time, it's just fuzzy feeling stuff.

    So say you. And I say He did. Now prove the Bible and me wrong.

    Don't you see the irony in your interpreting these passages in Job in light of what you think you know?

    God is not concerned with appearances; He deals in realities, substances, essences.

    God wants us to believe, especially when believing is hard to do, and goes against all our worldly education. Be not a friend of the world, can't you see its wisdom is foolishness to God and is passing away.
     
  14. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I said we meaning as far as I know all creation believers -and I would have thought yourself, believe the earth is suspended over nothing as that is what the Bible says.
    Job 26:7
    He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
    So now you are making a case for the earth having literal foundations made of concrete?
    If that is what you want to believe you certainly can but I won't.


    I don't care about astrophysics nor could I tell you anything about it. I don't think a person needs to be involved in nor understand astrophysics to come up with the idea that 'not moving' could mean the earth wont shake from side to side or up and down. Why can't it mean that? I think that is as valid as your own not moving anywhere point. The verse is poetry and it doesn't elaberate on what non movement actually means. What makes your view any better than someone else's?

    What does that have to so with Psalm 98?

    That is what poetry and songs are. They are to invoke feelings. You need other literal verses to back them up if you want to build a doctrine.

    And don't you see the irony in claiming Psalm 104 as literal? If you want to claim every word of psalm 104 is literal then I will claim every word in Psalm 98 is literal.
    Rivers have hands and mountains can sing songs. Psalms 98 says it, now prove me wrong.

    I can agree with that.

    And I can also agree with that. in fact I wholeheartedly agree that the wisdom of man is extreme foolishness. I probably post that same phrase on CF at least twice a week. I simply don't believe poetry is meant to be taken literally.

    I don't really want to argue with you because
    1) there are very few creationists on here and
    2) I don't really care if you want to believe the world is flat.
    I am a simple woman who believes scripture but who needs more than poetry to have a doctrine. If that's your stance, that poetry should be taken literally then you should also take Psalm 98 as literal too. If not I would call that a double standard.
     
  15. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Job 26:7 is an example of people departing from using scripture to interpret scripture. To using science to interpret scripture, so The Bible will match up to the science lie of a globe earth.

    If Job 26:7 is translated into English using The Bible as its sole source to determine Hebrew/Arabic words/meaning. Then Job 26:7 never would be translated to say about the earth: hangs the earth on nothing

    From Terra Firma by: David Wardlaw Scott
    -​
    Before leaving this subject of the Circumference, there is one other passage in the Authorized Version of the Bible to which I would like to refer, as it has been made a pretext for believing the theory of the Earth whirling round the Sun.

    It is as follows Job 26:7." He stretcheth out- the North over The empty place, and hangeth the Earth upon nothing "


    The Hebrew is —
    neteh tsephoon ol tehoo tehleh arets ol belimeh,
    The proper translation of which is:
    "He spreadeth out the North over the desolate' place (the abyss of waters), and supporteth the Earth upon fastenings/foundations."

    I am much surprised that not only the translators of the Authorized and Revised Versions, but such a distinguished scholar as the late Dr. Robert Young, could have made such a strange mistake, as to say that God " hangeth the Earth upon nothing," which is neither a proper rendering nor common sense ; besides which it distinctly contradicts the Word of God which, in so many other places, declares that the Earth rests upon Foundations.

    There must be a support for any thing that hangs, and our Modem Astronomers were not long in taking advantage of the above miss translation by saying that, as it was impossible for such a heavy mass as the Earth to stand by itself, the passage must mean that it whirls round the Sun by the force of Gravitation.

    But a little examination of two words in the original will soon put matters straight, Shakespeare says,"The Earth hath bubbles, as the water hath,"and the theory of the world rushing around the sun impelled by the hypothetic law of gravitation, is one of the biggest that ever required pricking.

    The Hebrew word teleh means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact. thus, to give a few instances/examples.

    Genesis 40:19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head from you and hang you on a tree;
    and the birds will eat your flesh from you.”


    Psalms 137:2 We hung our harps Upon the willows in the midst of it.

    Ezekiel 15:3 Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on?

    But belimeh wrongly translated "nothing" is the crucial word. Our translators appear to have derived it from the noun blee, signifying consumption or desolation, and the pronoun meh, who which what, but the meaning "nothing" drawn from these words, seems to be very far fetched.

    Hebrew is a very ancient language, to all probability the most ancient of any, and this being the only place in the Bible where the word belimeh occurs, it is, of course, difficult to test the meaning. I have myself, however, not the slightest doubt, that Parkhurst is right in deriving the noun belimeh from the verb belem, to confine, restrain, or hold in, so used in

    Psalm 32:9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed(belem) with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.

    and that belimeh simply means "fastenings," or "supports," and this interpretation exactly agrees with what JEHOVAH asked Job a little farther on in

    Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened?Or who laid its cornerstone,

    But while I consider Parkhurst to be correct as to the rendering of the word belimeh, I believe him to be wrong as to the strange application of it which he makes, when he says — "What can this mean but the columns of light and spirit, between which the
    Earth is suspended (comp. 1Sam 2: 8), and which, like the two reins of a bridle, hold (if I may be allowed the expression) the mighty steed within its circular course.

    That Paxkhurst, from the "Record of his Life," was an excellent man, there is every reason to believe, and that he was a profound scholar we know, but he was a Hutchinsonian, and held peculiar views as to the Earth's movements by means of conflicting ethers, which he drags in on every possible occasion. I cannot here enter into his theory, which I consider to be quite untenable, but would refer any who might wish to examine it to an able work by Mr. J. A. Macdonald, " The Principia and the Bible ; a Critique and an Argument." f Bagster's " Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon " also gives the meaning of the verb belem, " to bind, to bridle," and I am informed, on reliable authority, that Breslau also derives belimeh from belem to fasten, but I have not his Lexicon at hand to verify the fact myself.

    It is, therefore, evident from the above examination, that the real meaning of belimeh in

    Job 26:6 is that God supports the Earth upon fastenings, or, in other words, upon "foundations,"

    the truth of which will be fully confirmed in the following Section, in which it will be seen that the Earth is not only stretched out upon the waters which have an impassable circumference, but that it has Immovable Foundations, therefore it cannot be a planet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  16. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    If the earth was flat then it would have an edge. Surely that great edge has been filmed?
     
  17. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Still waiting for the curvature to be shown. But hey, if we were permitted to travel freely south of the 66th parallel, maybe we'd be able to film the extensive of ice cliff walls that explorers like Capt James Cook recorded.
     
  18. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Still the edge must be there if the earth is flat. If the earth is spherical then there is no edge.

    Just get a photo of the edge and you have a convert.
     
  19. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    You're easily converted. :clap:
     
  20. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So ... according to your photo (which doesn't even show the American continents) ... there should be no way east from Africa without coming to the Earth's "edge".

    But, of course, we know the travel across the Atlantic Ocean (east of Africa) has been accomplished for centuries ...
     
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