Is the Earth flat or round???

[Isaiah60]

The KJV, though an outstanding translation, is not written in today's grammar. Therefore how people read the KJV today, who have no knowledge of 16th century linguistics, is not how it was meant to be understood. The following translations are written for today's grammar.

The MEV is the newest update to the KJV. This translation is getting popular with those who love the KJV. I give it very good marks but still like the NKJV just a little better. However, the grammar of the MEV is perfect with the Hebrew.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - Modern English Version

The ESV also contains perfect wording and grammar. But the MEV is a more solid translation overall.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - English Standard Version

The NASB, which is a translation I do not like, however does translate Gen.1:1 perfectly.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - English Standard Version

The NKJV is close to perfect but uses the word "firmament" which is not perfect but acceptable. The actual word is "expanse."

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New King James Version

The RSV is also close to perfect along with the NKJV. The only mistake is the use of the word "firmament" which is still acceptable but better is the Hebrew word which is "expanse."

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - Revised Standard Version

Here is the Strong's lexicon for proof.


Firmament/expanse from The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"H7549. רָקִיעַ râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

(1) Raqiya means that which is fixed and steadfast, rather than that which is solid. (1a) The application to the heavenly bodies is simple and beautful: (b) they are not fickle and uncertain in their movements, but are regulated by a law that they cannot pass over. (2) It comes from raqa (7554) which means spread out. The firmament, then is that which is spread or stretched out--hence an expanse. Thus it is extended and fixed, or fixed space. (3) The interplanetary spaces are measured out by God, and though the stars are ever moving, they generally preserve fixed relative positions; their movements are not erratic, not in straight lines, but in orbits, and thus, though ever changing, they are always the same."

As you can plainly read the word "raqiya" does not mean solid dome. Flat earthers reject the reliability of Strong's and just go by what memes and youtube says. In other words, they oppose the entire body of Christ from the beginning up to the present now. With this kind of rejection towards authority the movement cannot be considered Christian. There is no solid dome in the Bible.

Proof of plurality of "heavens"


Heaven/Heavens defined in The New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

"8064. [420x] Shamayin, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused sing.

Shameh, shaw-mah'; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perb. alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): -- heaven (39x), air [21x], astrologer + 1895 [1x].

Introduction: Sometimes it signifies the atmosphere immediately surrounding the earth, in which the fowls of the air fly. Sometimes it is used of the space in which the clouds are floating. In other places it refers to the vast expanse through which the starts are moving in their courses. It is opposed to sheowl (7585), the one being regarded as a place of exaltation, the other of degradation; the one being represented as the dwelling place of the Most High and the angels of God, the other as the abode of the dead. It includes all space that is not occupied by the terrestrial globe, and extends from the air we breathe and the winds we feel around us to the firmament or expanse that contains the innumerable stars. This is includes, and exceeds for where our intellect ceases to operate, and fails to find a limit to the extension of space, there faith comes in. And while before the eye of the body there is spread out an infinity of space, the possession of the super-material nature brings us into communion with a Being whose nature and condition cannot adequately be described by terms of locality or extension. The heavens and the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him. The countless stars are not only known and numbered by Him, but are called into existence and fixed in their courses by His will and wisdom. Where He is, there the true heaven is; and the glories of the firmament faintly shadow forth the ineffable bliss that those must realize who are brought into relationship with Him.
(1) Shamayim is the usual for the sky and the realm of the sky (1a) birds fly (Duet.4:17). (1b) This area, high above the ground below the stars and heavenly bodies, is often a locus of visions (1 Chr. 21:16). (2) This word represents an area farther removed from the earth's surface (2a) from which come such things as (2a1) frost (Job 38:29), (2a2) snow (Is 55:10), (2a3) fire (Gen 19:24), (2a4) dust (Deut 28:24), (2a5) hail (Josh 10:11), and (a26) rain (Gen 8:2). (2b) This realm is God's storehouse; God is (3a) the dispenser of the stores and Lord of the realm (Deut 28:12). (2c) This meaning of shamayim occurs in Gen 1:7-8. (3) Shamayim also represents the realm in which the sun, moon, and stars are located (Gen 1:14). (4) The phrase "heaven and earth" may denote the entire creation (Gen 1:1). (5) Heaven is the dwelling place of God (Ps 2:4; Deut 4:39; 26:15). (5a) Another expression representing the dwelling place of God is "the highest heaven" [literally, the heaven of heavens] (Deut 10:14). (5b) This does not indicate height, but also an absolute--i.e., God's abode is a unique realm not to be identified with a physical creation. Syn.: 7834. See TWOT--2407a; BDB--1029c, 116a."

 

[Isaiah60]

Chuwg: circle, circuit, compass, sphere.

The Douay-Rheims Bible is a translation of Jerome's Latin Vulgate. The Hebrew word Chuwg translates to globe in Latin. Even in English it means 3-dimensional circle. Every reputable Bible scholars of today, as well as all the reputable early church fathers of the first 4 centuries of Christ (which you will find an entire section here on the subject), all agree that the Hebrew word means globe, sphere, 3-dimensional circle. Christians do not go by the Hebrew word definitions of 21st century atheists.

Isaiah 40:22 (Douay-Rheims Bible),

"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."

St.Ambrose from the 4th century A.D, quotes entire verse:

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

See link below for full definition of "chuwg" in English and in German.

Chuwg: Circle, circuit, compass, sphere
Genesis 1:1 (ESV)

 

[Isaiah60]

Also read Clement of Rome topic here which proves 1st century Christians read round earth from Scripture.

Clement of Rome (35-99 A.D.) -- Globe Earth!

And then there is the "round world" in old English Bibles which does mean globe. The Bible teaches globe/sphere earth exclusively. The liberal scholar are wrong and just making stuff up for the sake of causing mass apostasy. Do not be fooled by them.

 

[Isaiah60]

Job 37:18, Solid Sky.

This verse is quoted continuously by flat earthers. You cannot even engage in a discussion with a flat earther without having this verse thrown at you out of nowhere (as they will cite the verse with no connection to a discussion about the shape of the earth). They say the Bible teaches us that the sky is solid, like metal. Since flat earthers are KJV Only, lets cite Job 37:18 from the KJV,

"Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?"

Other Translations:

"Thou perhaps hast made the heavens with him, which are most strong, as if they were of molten brass" (Douay-Rheims Bible).

"Can you, like him, spread out the skies,
hard as a cast metal mirror?" (ESV).

"Hast thou stretched out the heavens, which are strong, and as a molten glass?" (1599 Geneva Bible).

"Have you, with Him, spread out the sky,
which is strong and is like a molded mirror?" (MEV).

"With Him, have you spread out the skies,
Strong as a cast metal mirror?" (NKJV).

"can you help God spread out the skies
as hard as a cast metal mirror?" (HCSB).

"can you join him in spreading out the skies,
hard as a mirror of cast bronze?" (NIV).
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Well, that's it. We're done. They got us. Close down the churches! Hide in the hills! The Bible is over; disproven!

There is a very simple response to this verse. It is a very easy easy answer. I do not feel it necessary to explain whether or not there is a figurative meaning. The answer is so easy no explanation of this verse is necessary.

The answer: The narrator is Elihu.

What does this mean? It means the narrator was not Job or God and thus the narrator is irrelevant.

Flat earthers will respond: "But its in the Bible!" This does not remove the irrelevancy of Elihu's narration. His words are part of a dialogue but they do not effect our church doctrine. Now if Job or God said this then I would go into a deeper explanation. But since the narrator is Elihu there is no reason to provide any explanation longer than this one.

The narrator is irrelevant.

 

[Isaiah60]

Crash course on "round world" verses:


Both 1537 Matthew's Bible and 1539 Great Bible (modified English),

"The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine; * thou hast laid the foundation of the round world, and all that therein is."
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)


The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].
The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."
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Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).
Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).
Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).
In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

 

[Radagast]

nm

 

[Inkfingers]

29 pages discussing whether the Earth is flat?

Seriously?

 

[Radagast]

29 pages discussing whether the Earth is flat?

Thousands of people do believe it's flat. I'm still not sure why, given that the idea is so obviously stupid.

 

[Isaiah60]

I just wanted to add information which strongly refutes the flat earth manipulations of the Bible.

 

[Inkfingers]

I just wanted to add information which strongly refutes the flat earth manipulations of the Bible.

From a narrow perspective, the earth is flat, the sun goes around the earth, and I am the centre of the universe.

From a broader more informed perspective, the earth is a sphere, it orbits the sun, and I AM is the centre of the universe.

 

[DarkSoul999]

You need to stop belittling people. Period

It is not an insult. It might really be the case. What you decide to do is up to you.

 

[MoneyGuy]

You could have fooled me. You're just trolling, then?

I believe that many FE'rs are trolling us.

 

[Radagast]

I believe that many FE'rs are trolling us.

That's possible.

However, given that the effect of "flatearthism" is to paint a negative picture of Christianity, such trolling would seem to me to be detrimental to the Gospel.

 

[Isaiah60]

I've been banned from two flat earth groups on FB which were supposedly Christian. I posted information and answered questions and I was soon banned. These two groups never ban anybody! But when you are winning over their flock back to that world called reality, and administrators see they have no defense for the information posted, besides, perhaps, to just deny it, then they get rid of you. I made a vow that the flat earth view of Scripture would be extinct before I turn 50. I'm 47 now. I'm making good on that promise to myself. I even know of a professional creationist taking it on but he answers more the arguments of modern science and I solely focus on answering the false interpretations they make of Scripture. I've noticed the flat earth view now beginning to lose steam due to losing the Bible debate. I've always known that once you strip them of all Biblical authority they will cease as a movement. The entire movement is akin to Antifa and their views of Scripture are more like the Antifa view of theology. Its total anarchy and nothing more. I know someone personally who is very very heavily into Satanism and prides himself on brainwashing Christians out of their faith. This person used to be my best friend for over 30 years. I know this guy well and know how to bust him for lying in debates. He has admitted the FE movement is anarchy which he likes and part of the Gnostic occult movement. So the entire aim of the movement is to mock Christians while slowly brainwashing them out of their faith. Its the occult.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

the earth is flat. the Lord Steven Christ says that it is concave - but he's wrong, as there would be some evidence for curvature, and there isn't.

 

[MoneyGuy]

the earth is flat. the Lord Steven Christ says that it is concave - but he's wrong, as there would be some evidence for curvature, and there isn't.

Not sure if serious.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

Not sure if serious.

The Lord Steven Christ is deadly serious - you must repent and believe that the earth is concave and is not flat - salvation is gained by having the correct belief on the shape of the earth - it must be concave. Poor old Lord Steven Christ did prison time for threatening the US president on-line.
Lord Steven has consigned all the flat earthers on YouTube like Jeranism, and Eric Dubay, to the abyss.

 

[Aldebaran]

The Lord Steven Christ is deadly serious - you must repent and believe that the earth is concave and is not flat - salvation is gained by having the correct belief on the shape of the earth - it must be concave. Poor old Lord Steven Christ did prison time for threatening the US president on-line.
Lord Steven has consigned all the flat earthers on YouTube like Jeranism, and Eric Dubay, to the abyss.

Good thing Steven Christ isn't the one who determines our salvation. That would be a different Christ who is in charge of that.

 

[Jay1971]

the earth is flat. the Lord Steven Christ says that it is concave - but he's wrong, as there would be some evidence for curvature, and there isn't.

Yes brother I know

 

[Isaiah60]

Shocking footage of rocket leaving earth.