Is the AG the President's "Wingman"?

whatbogsends

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So many have argued that CNN and MSNBC are biased toward DNC agendas -- is that still "News"?

media watch bias cnn msnbc - Bing video

In any case - I simply point the reader to the inspector general report... You are free to not read it if you like .. going after the Examiner does not change the IG report on the IRS targeting of conservative groups.

The original IG report wasn't a comprehensive report on how groups were targeted. It specifically was an audit of how groups with "tea party" or "patriot" in their names were targeted. There were similar left-leaning "BOLO"s (such as "Occupy") that were not included in the review of the IG Report.

"But top congressional Democrats have wielded new information from the IRS this week that liberal groups were also flagged for extra attention on the sorts of “be on the lookout” lists (BOLOs) that also tripped up conservative groups.

The spokesman for the Treasury inspector general noted their audit acknowledged there were other watch lists. But the spokesman added: "We did not review the use, disposition, purpose or content of the other BOLOs. That was outside the scope of our audit.”

The admission from the inspector general comes as Democrats have sharpened their criticism of George, with Rep. Sandy Levin (D-Mich.) dubbing the audit fundamentally flawed on Monday."

IG: Audit of IRS actions limited to Tea Party groups at GOP request


"A federal watchdog has identified as many as 146 cases in which the Internal Revenue Service may have targeted liberal-leaning groups for extra scrutiny based on their names or political leanings, a finding that could undermine claims that conservatives were unfairly targeted under President Barack Obama.
...
The new TIGTA report examines a broader range of criteria used by the IRS at the time, including groups affiliated with the now-defunct Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, as well as others referencing "Progressive," "Green Energy," "Medical Marijuana" and "Occupy."


Together, the watchdog identified 146 cases in which the IRS examined left-leaning groups for suspicion of engaging in disallowed political activity. Eighty-three of those were definitively chosen for scrutiny because of the selection criteria, the inspector general found; the report could not definitively determine how the other cases were chosen.
...
For instance, IRS personnel were told starting in 2010 to watch out for groups that had affiliations with ACORN, a national network of community-based organizations that had collapsed amid allegations of wrongdoing by conservative activists. Ultimately, at least 13 applications for tax exemptions were flagged for scrutiny based on possible ACORN ties, and most of those groups waited over a year for their cases to be resolved, the report said - mirroring many of the allegations leveled regarding conservative groups.
...
Other entities have examined the IRS's handling of nonprofit groups at the time and concluded that conservatives were affected disproportionately. The Senate Finance Committee, for instance, concluded in 2015 that most of the groups whose applications were given extra scrutiny were "Tea Party and conservative groups" but also acknowledged that some left-leaning groups "experienced lengthy processing delays and inappropriate and burdensome requests for information."
"

IRS unfairly targeted liberal groups, too, Treasury Department watchdog finds

Even the GOP-led Senate Finance Committee report acknowledged that the IRS targeting wasn't limited to conservative groups, but the right wing media has blatantly disregarded that information time and again.

You're free to discount additional information that came to light after the initial IG report, but that would be selective analysis. Both left-leaning and right-leaning news organizations selectively highlight and omit information to construct a narrative, and The Washington Examiner is definitely an outlet which puts narrative first.
 
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BobRyan

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But since the DOJ is a part of the Executive Branch and derives its authority FROM the President (not the other way around) -- what difference does it make if the President instructs the DOJ to do something or not?
 
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BobRyan

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The original IG report wasn't a comprehensive report on how groups were targeted.

Admittedly they did not find every single spec of a problem in the IRS actions - but they did find enough to report their findings.

======================

from; Tea Party Groups Targeted by Lerner's IRS Receive Settlement Checks

MADISON, Wis.—Dozens of conservative organizations are receiving late Christmas presents years after the IRS handed them a lump of coal.

The federal government in recent days has been issuing settlement checks to 100 right-of-center groups wrongfully targeted for their political beliefs under the Obama administration’s Internal Revenue Service, according to an attorney for the firm that represented plaintiffs in NorCal v. United States.


Most of the claimants will each receive a check for approximately $14,000, Greim said. Five conservative groups that were integrally involved in the lawsuit get a bonus payment of $10,000 each, the attorney said.

About $2 million of the settlement goes to cover the legal costs of five long years of litigation. IRS attorneys attempted delay after delay, objection after objection, trying to use the very taxpayer protection statutes the plaintiffs were suing under to suppress documents.

The agency has admitted no wrongdoing in what a federal report found to be incidents of intrusive inspections of organizations seeking nonprofit status. Greim has said the seven-figure settlement suggests otherwise.
 
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BobRyan

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For instance, IRS personnel were told starting in 2010 to watch out for groups that had affiliations with ACORN, a national network of community-based organizations that had collapsed amid allegations of wrongdoing by conservative activists. Ultimately, at least 13 applications for tax exemptions were flagged for scrutiny based on possible ACORN ties, and most of those groups waited over a year for their cases to be resolved, the report said - mirroring many of the allegations leveled regarding conservative groups. .

IRS releases list of 426 groups targeted for increased scrutiny
"IRS releases list of 426 groups targeted for increased scrutiny"

Sixty of the groups have the word "tea" in their name, 33 have "patriot" and 26 refer to "liberty," while others appear to trend liberal, with three having "occupy" in their name, according to The Washington Times, which first reported the list.

"The IRS inspector general report previously said it had reviewed 298 cases as of May 2012.

"A government watchdog in April 2015 said the IRS had made "significant" progress handling issues that led to improper scrutiny of Tea Party groups seeking tax-exempt status. The inspector general said the IRS was no longer targeting groups."

NorCal Tea Party Patriots filed the lawsuit against the IRS and some of its officials in 2013, shortly after an earlier inspector general report revealing the targeting was released. The group asserted claims under the First and Fifth amendments of the Constitution and the Privacy Act."

As part of the discovery process, NorCal had sought IRS lists of groups seeking tax-exempt status that were allegedly subjected to delays and requests for unnecessary information due to their political beliefs. NorCal also requested spreadsheets that the IRS had given to the inspector general for its report.

The group had asked for this information so it could identify other members of the class.

The IRS fought the request to produce the documents, arguing the names and other information about the groups were confidential "return information." But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled in March that the IRS had to produce the lists.

Afterward, the IRS sent NorCal a large number of documents from the period when the alleged targeting was taking place. Based on these documents, it appears that liberal groups' names were added to the lists at later points during the period. One hypothesis the plaintiffs have is that the IRS added the liberal groups "to try to muddy the waters” once the agency realized it was being investigated, Greim said.


 
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essentialsaltes

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But since the DOJ is a part of the Executive Branch and derives its authority FROM the President (not the other way around) -- what difference does it make if the President instructs the DOJ to do something or not?

Centuries of precedent on how Justice is to be impartial. But now we have a modern-day president with his thumb on the scales of Justice.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Barr said this on video regarding the timeline

Well it sure is a relief in a thread about whether Barr took his orders from the president that we have Barr's word that he didn't.
 
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Tom 1

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Do you even know what my views are?

Justice or vengeance? I suspect if it's Donald and Barr, then it will be the latter, as seen so far.

Also, what have I to do with Democrats? Justice is supposed to be blind to that sort of thing.

This guy you are responding to can’t be for real.
 
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Bobber

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Do you Trumpers not see anything wrong with special, drastically reduced sentences for Donald's friends and cronies?

Simple answer. I don't see any crime which justifies such a harsh sentence regardless as to whether it was a Republican or Democrat that is with what Roger Stone did.
 
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BobRyan

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Simple answer. I don't see any crime which justifies such a harsh sentence regardless as to whether it was a Republican or Democrat that is with what Roger Stone did.

good point. Some facts are just "true" no matter if one is democrat or republican.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Barr said this on video regarding the timeline

Well it sure is a relief in a thread about whether Barr took his orders from the president .

But the fact is - it does not matter at all ... the claim that the President should not direct the members of his own cabinet is an emotional argument - it is not a constitutional or legal one.

Which positions does the president appoint once they are elected? | I Agree to See

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings of course - but I am more interested in the actual constitution and the fact that Holder was Obama's "wingman" does not appear to violate the domain already given to the President under the Constitution.
 
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jgarden

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But since the DOJ is a part of the Executive Branch and derives its authority FROM the President (not the other way around) -- what difference does it make if the President instructs the DOJ to do something or not?
The Department of Justice has traditionally dealt with the White House at arms length, given that American justice has, until recently, prided itself on being free from political interference - the day that independence is breached is the day this nation starts to descend down that slippery slope to becoming a "banana republic!"

When President Nixon demanded that the Attorney General, and then the Assistant Attorney General, fire the special prosecutor who was conducting the Watergate Investigation, both to their credit remembered that their oath was to the Constitution, not the President, and resigned in what became know as the "Saturday Night Massacre!"
 
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Tom 1

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The Department of Justice has traditionally dealt with the White House at arms length, given that American justice has, until recently, prided itself on being free from political interference - the day that independence is breached is the day this nation starts to descend down that slippery slope to becoming a "banana republic!"

When President Nixon demanded that the Attorney General, and then the Assistant Attorney General, fire the special prosecutor who was conducting the Watergate Investigation, both to their credit remembered that their oath was to the Constitution, not the President, and resigned in what became know as the "Saturday Night Massacre!"

Barr is considering resigning, apparently. Anyone in Trump’s close circle faces the same choice eventually, jump ship or lose any credibility. The worrying thing is that with the stream of experienced people leaving random characters like Jared Kushner have increased influence, as ultimately no-one but family and the genuinely spineless will be left. Maybe it’s inevitable it’ll all turn into another unscrupulous family business.
 
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jgarden

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Simple answer. I don't see any crime which justifies such a harsh sentence regardless as to whether it was a Republican or Democrat that is with what Roger Stone did.
Donald Trump wants to bring back the "tough on crime" policies that helped cause mass incarceration
Sep 21, 2016

For the past few years, criminal justice policy has widely been considered an area ripe for reform from Democrats and Republicans. They want to make the system less punitive and pull back mass incarceration — a rare show of bipartisanship in an increasingly polarized political climate.

Then came Donald Trump.

On the campaign trail, the Republican presidential candidate has been somewhat of an enigma on criminal justice issues. Trump's website includes no platform on criminal justice issues. Reform advocates have long complained to me that they have trouble getting in touch with his campaign to get an idea of his views. And despite some vague remarks here and there, he's almost never talked at length about what he thinks about criminal justice issues. (His campaign didn't get back to me for this piece.)

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11737264/donald-trump-criminal-justice-republican-president
**************************************************************************************************************
How quick they forget - even before this President came into office, his authoritarian nature favored stiffer prison sentences, not leniency!

Given that Roger Stone lied to authorities, pleaded not guilty, refused to cooperate with DOJ and threatened a witness, his sentencing recommendations were based on prescribed lengths of incarceration for felons who met this criteria, not arbitrary judgements!

It is not normal for a President, nor the Attorney General, to intrude into ongoing trials - particularly for those felons with political connections where interference would be interpreted as obvious favoritism!
 
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essentialsaltes

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But the fact is - it does not matter at all ...

I'm puzzled why you even bothered to defend Trump and Barr, when at the slightest pushback you immediately retrench behind "Sure, they probably did it. Get over it."
 
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essentialsaltes

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Donald Trump wants to bring back the "tough on crime" policies that helped cause mass incarceration

It's just like food stamps. You change the rules to kick people off, and then crow about how you've reduced the number of people on food stamps.

If you pardon everyone and set them free, crime must be at an all time low, because there's nobody in the prisons!
 
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Bobber

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The Department of Justice has traditionally dealt with the White House at arms length, given that American justice has, until recently, prided itself on being free from political interference - the day that independence is breached is the day this nation starts to descend down that slippery slope to becoming a "banana republic!"

You mean like when Bill Clinton did when he met Lorretia Lynch on the Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport for a little meeting and just a few days later the news comes out that the DOJ wasn't going to press charges against Hillary?
 
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Tom 1

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And where did you hear that? CNN?

No, WAPO. Note: source as nothing to do with accuracy, as you can find out by comparing the number of actual 'fake' news stories (almost none) with the 10s of 1000s of examples of accurate reporting.
 
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DaisyDay

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It is not normal for a President, nor the Attorney General, to intrude into ongoing trials - particularly for those felons with political connections where interference would be interpreted as obvious favoritism!
QFT

You mean like when Bill Clinton did when he met Lorretia Lynch on the Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport for a little meeting and just a few days later the news comes out that the DOJ wasn't going to press charges against Hillary?
Bill Clinton hadn't been president for more than a decade at that point, so no.
 
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jgarden

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You mean like when Bill Clinton did when he met Lorretia Lynch on the Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport for a little meeting and just a few days later the news comes out that the DOJ wasn't going to press charges against Hillary?
This President was supposedly elected on a promise that he intended to hold the Washington elites to a higher moral standard than previous administrations - Trump said that he would drain the swamp, not pardon it!!
 
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