Is the 1st resurrection initially being applied before or after death?

[TribulationSigns]

My point is, not that John 5:24 doesn't describe a spiritual resurrection of sorts, but that anastasis doesn't appear to be involving spiritual resurrections in any of the verses it appears.

I think you need to read Scripture a little bit to find out MORE about the first resurrection. All believers experience "spiritual resurrection" with the first resurrection! That is how God made us alive. By who? God tells us point blank that Christ is the First Resurrection. And he who hath an ear, let him hear and receive it.

Acts 26:23

• "That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the First Resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles".

So then, who are we going to believe, God or man? His interpretation, or our own? These are the same exact Greek words used in Revelation chapter twenty (First Resurrection). So there should be no debate but that Christ's raising from the dead is the 'First Resurrection,' according to God's Word. This is not an interpretation or my spin on it, it's a direct unadulterated "Quote." That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the 'First Resurrection' from the dead. And we, raised up in him have part in that First Resurrection. We are the Church of the Firstborn from the dead.

Colossians 1:18

• "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

Hebrews 12:23

• "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"

We, as believers, experienced First Resurrection by being born again with Christ's spirit, and we are Kings and Priests to preach Gospel to the world. If we physically dies, our souls, with the First Resurrection, upon which the second death has no power, we still live, while the unsaved dead (the rest of the dead) do not.

 

[DavidPT]

Yes! Once we are BORN AGAIN, God has made us kings and priests and reign on Earth RIGHT NOW as He did with Christians before us since Pentecost. We represent Christ as we preach His Gospel to the world. That is why He gave us the power with the Holy Spirit to do our Great Commission. Selah!



You misunderstood. See... as Christians, we reign on EARTH while we are alive after being born again. We are the body of Christ, the Church, making up of kings and priests. Aren't we Christ's kings of the Earth. Let find out what God's Word says:

Rev 1:5-6
(5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

See? Christ made us kings and priests the moment we were born again by washing us from our sins. Therefore, we do not have to wait for a physical 1,000 years kingdom in the future in order to "reign". The kingdom is here, right now, through the Church.

Therefore, unlike the "rest of the dead", if anyone of us who are born again physically dies BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS, our SOULS will immediately go into heaven and CONTINUE reign with Christ! Selah!

What is the title of this thread though? Is it not this?----Is the 1st resurrection initially being applied before or after death?

It seems to me that the first resurrection is being applied to the martyrs after death, and not before. If the first resurrection is not bodily though, this indicates the souls of them, meaning without bodies as of yet, reign with Christ a thousand years, while being priests unto God and Christ while in that state. If there is such a concept as this, can anyone point me to the Scriptures showing this so that I can see for myself?


Everyone that hath part in the first resurrection, they all shall be priests unto God and Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. If you think these martyrs go to heaven upon death, thus continue reigning a thousand years there, you also have to agree they are priests unto God and Christ while in heaven as souls still awaiting glorified bodies. The latter of course making zero sense.

 

[TribulationSigns]

What is the title of this thread though? Is it not this?----Is the 1st resurrection initially being applied before or after death?

Read my previous post. It should clarify my position. Wasn't Jesus Christ the First Resurrection? The first resurrection has nothing to do with our physical death but when we were born again when we accepted Christ as our savior that what made us the firstfruits! It should obviously answer your question since Christians experienced born again BEFORE their physical death in order that their souls will go to heaven and continue to reign with Christ. UNLIKE the "rest of the dead" who have not been born again or being saved in Christ.

Rev 14:1-4
(1) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
(2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
(3) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The 144,000 symbolically represents all those who have experienced the First Resurrection in Christ! Selah! Don't we follow the Lamb? Didn't we have been redeemed from among men while the rest of the dead didn't? Think about it!

 

[DavidPT]

Yes - killed because of their proclamations of Messiah.

I don't believe this has anything to do with awaiting their physical bodies. As TS posted, these were souls that were seen.

If these souls that are seen have part in the first resurrection though, everything in Revelation 20:6 has to apply to them as well. Amil has these martyrs reigning a thousand years with Christ, not only while they are physically alive, but also after they are physically dead.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If these souls that are seen have part in the first resurrection though, everything in Revelation 20:6 has to apply to them as well. Amil has these martyrs reigning a thousand years with Christ, not only while they are physically alive, but also after they are physically dead.

Rev 20:6
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Tell me, who is "he" Christ talked about here? Isn't it every Elect who have experienced the First Resurrection (born again) with Him? You need to slow down and try to consider all the verses I testified. Jesus Christ IS the First Resurrection and ANYONE who believe this, will experience the First Resurrection as well. That is when our souls were made alive inside our stinky physical bodies!

Do you recall back in Old Testament when Moses build a pole with a brazen serpent upon it and say that if anyone who "sees" it and "believes" will be healed? How did the Jews got healed? Humm? Likewise with our souls when we believe in the First Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with spiritual resurrection inside us.

Consider these things:


1st Death:

The death in Adam which all of mankind has suffered and which if they are not resurrected in Christ from that death, they shall suffer the judgement in the second resurrection.

1st Resurrection:

Every single believer who has been raised up in Christ to new life, hath part in this 1st resurrection. Remember the scriptures talk of Christ as the "FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD." If that's not the 1st Resurrection from the dead, the new birth in Christ, then nothing is. He is the Resurrection as He told Martha, and all those raised WITH HIM hath part in that first Resurrection. They are the Church of the firstborn. On these, the second death hath no power. Of course not, for they never die again! ..He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

2nd Resurrection:

The second coming, at the last trumpet, at the last day, when we that are alive will be raised up to meet Jesus in the air, and Judgment day when the rest of the dead (unsaved who have died) are all are raised up to stand for Judgment.

2nd Death:

The Judgment that is meted out by GOD upon the unrighteous. HELL! There shall be weeping and grinding of teeth! This is the death that the wages of sin brings forth. It's punishment. The 1st Resurrection (Those raised in Christ) have no need to worry about this, as the power of the Cross of Christ (1st Resurrection) has taken away the sting of death.

 

[mkgal1]

It seems to me that the first resurrection is being applied to the martyrs after death, and not before.

There was no eternal life until Jesus defeated death through His death on the cross. That was a unique period of change/reversal/revolution.

 

[DavidPT]

I think you need to read Scripture a little bit to find out MORE about the first resurrection. All believers experience "spiritual resurrection" with the first resurrection! That is how God made us alive. By who? God tells us point blank that Christ is the First Resurrection. And he who hath an ear, let him hear and receive it.

Acts 26:23

• "That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the First Resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles".

So then, who are we going to believe, God or man? His interpretation, or our own? These are the same exact Greek words used in Revelation chapter twenty (First Resurrection). So there should be no debate but that Christ's raising from the dead is the 'First Resurrection,' according to God's Word. This is not an interpretation or my spin on it, it's a direct unadulterated "Quote." That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the 'First Resurrection' from the dead. And we, raised up in him have part in that First Resurrection. We are the Church of the Firstborn from the dead.

Colossians 1:18

• "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

Hebrews 12:23

• "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"

We, as believers, experienced First Resurrection by being born again with Christ's spirit, and we are Kings and Priests to preach Gospel to the world. If we physically dies, our souls, with the First Resurrection, upon which the second death has no power, we still live, while the unsaved dead (the rest of the dead) do not.

I fully grasp the type of resurrection you are referring to, except that the first resurrection is not meaning a spiritual one, it is meaning a bodily one.

If we physically dies, our souls, with the First Resurrection, upon which the second death has no power, we still live, while the unsaved dead (the rest of the dead) do not.

You left out this part though---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ. That has to apply to these souls after death, too.

 

[mkgal1]

t should obviously answer your question since Christians experienced born again BEFORE their physical death in order that their souls will go to heaven and continue to reign with Christ.

Except for the saints that died before the cross.

 

[ewq1938]

What is the title of this thread though? Is it not this?----Is the 1st resurrection initially being applied before or after death?

In Rev 20 it's after death. The people are beheaded in the GT because of their faith in Christ etc, and because of that they take part in the first of two mass bodily resurrections.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I fully grasp the type of resurrection you are referring to, except that the first resurrection is not meaning a spiritual one, it is meaning a bodily one.

Then I will be praying for you.

You left out this part though---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ. That has to apply to these souls after death, too.

"Too?" So are you saying that you agreed that we are kings and priests on earth right now as well?

Tell you what... my soul is alive and reigning with Christ right now, and if I physically die, it will not change the fact that my soul will continue to reign with Christ... in heaven. So your point is?

 

[mkgal1]

Amil has these martyrs reigning a thousand years with Christ, not only while they are physically alive, but also after they are physically dead.

Jesus walked this Earth over 2000 years ago. He is physically no longer here. Doesn't the life He lived continue to reveal ON EARTH truths about God? Same thing with the prophecies of the martyrs that were killed for making their proclamations about Him. The witness of His life and theirs lives on.

 

[DavidPT]

Rev 20:6
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Tell me, who is "he" Christ talked about here? Isn't it every Elect who have experienced the First Resurrection (born again) with Him? You need to slow down and try to consider all the verses I testified. Jesus Christ IS the First Resurrection and ANYONE who believe this, will experience the First Resurrection as well. That is when our souls were made alive inside our stinky physical bodies!

Do you recall back in Old Testament when Moses build a pole with a brazen serpent upon it and say that if anyone who "sees" it and "believes" will be healed? How did the Jews got healed? Humm? Likewise with our souls when we believe in the First Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with spiritual resurrection inside us.

Amils say the first resurrection is when one is initially saved. Let's say someone is on their deathbed. And before they pass away, they accept Christ, thus the first resurrection. Then one second later they pass away. Everyone that has part in the first resurrection, the text very plainly says they shall be priests unto God and Christ, and shall live and reign with Him a thousand years. Explain then, how this person on their deathbed, where after this person accepts Christ, then passes away a second later, fulfills the part about shall be priests unto God and Christ during this thousand years?

 

[TribulationSigns]

In Rev 20 it's after death. The people are beheaded in the GT because of their faith in Christ etc, and because of that they take part in the first of two mass bodily resurrections.

Incorrect. The First Resurrection takes place before physical death because it is a spiritual resurrection or when your soul is made alive in Christ. Don't forget the verse is talking about the SOULS that John saw that reigns with Christ in heaven after being "beheading" for their faithful testimony. What you fail to understand that it does not require that we all be physically beheaded, humm? Didn't you read the Scripture where Christ has explained that hatred is considered as murder by God? We were beheaded by the enemy all the time who do not want to hear our truthful testimony that is what Christ actually talked about. It is a spiritual war, Selah!

 

[DavidPT]

Then I will be praying for you.



"Too?" So are you saying that you agreed that we are kings and priests on earth right now as well?

Tell you what... my soul is alive and reigning with Christ right now, and if I physically die, it will not change the fact that my soul will continue to reign with Christ... in heaven. So your point is?

No I'm not agreeing. I said that assuming your position. I was coming from your perspective. If the part about the 2nd death has no power over those that have part in the first resurrection, applies to every single person taking part, then so must everything else in that verse apply to every single person having part in the first resurrection. Otherwise it's called cherry picking if it doesn't. Now you have to reasonably show how post #92 fulfills all of Revelation 20:6 after death, including the part about being a priest.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Amils say the first resurrection is when one is initially saved. Let's say someone is on their deathbed. And before they pass away, they except Christ, thus the first resurrection. Then one second later they pass away. Everyone that has part in the first resurrection, the text very plainly says they shall be priests unto God and Christ, and shall live and reign with Him a thousand years. Explain then, how this person on their deathbed, where after this person accepts Christ, then passes away a second later, fulfills the part about shall be priests unto God and Christ during this thousand years?

You must have forgotten a very important thing. God's grace! What about some babies who have not yet born (stillborn, miscarriage, or abortion) who have not done good or evil. Yet they are saved regardless? Does it mean the babies must perform as priests and kings on earth in order to experience the first resurrection? God already knows who are His before the world even begun. Worry about this question, where do you stand before God. Have you served Christ faithfully? Have you experienced born again? That all it matters and please spare me with "what if" situations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No I'm not agreeing. I said that assuming your position. I was coming from your perspective. If the part about the 2nd death has no power over those that have part in the first resurrection, applies to every single person taking part, then so must everything else in that verse apply to every single person having part in the first resurrection. Otherwise it's called cherry picking if it doesn't. Now you have to reasonably show how post #92 fulfills all of Revelation 20:6 after death, including the part about being a priest.

Huh? What?! You do not make any sense here. I can see that you did not like what you are reading with the Scripture I quoted regarding Christ being the First Resurrection that contrary to your position. Perhaps, you need to take a break and read again later.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Amils say the first resurrection is when one is initially saved. Let's say someone is on their deathbed. And before they pass away, they accept Christ, thus the first resurrection. Then one second later they pass away. Everyone that has part in the first resurrection, the text very plainly says they shall be priests unto God and Christ, and shall live and reign with Him a thousand years. Explain then, how this person on their deathbed, where after this person accepts Christ, then passes away a second later, fulfills the part about shall be priests unto God and Christ during this thousand years?

Well as I am sure you will agree, the resurrection is a physical resurrection as spoken of in 1 Thess 4:16. But towards your question about the qualifications of one to be a priest. You have to remember that in the first resurrection, the dead are raised and made incorruptible and immortal and recieve a glorified body, so everything that happened in the person's past life is irrelevant.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Except for the saints that died before the cross.

The Holy Spirit anointed the Old Testament Saints as well. That is why they had the temple, altar, sheep, etc. that pointed to Christ. They are saved by faith the same way we do. The Holy Spirit as living water that came out of Jerusalem that went forth to the Old Testament, the former sea and the New Testament the hinder sea.

Zec 14:8-9
(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

 

[DavidPT]

Incorrect. The First Resurrection takes place before physical death because it is a spiritual resurrection or when your soul is made alive in Christ. Don't forget the verse is talking about the SOULS that John saw that reigns with Christ in heaven after being "beheading" for their faithful testimony. What you fail to understand that it does not require that we all be physically beheaded, humm? Didn't you read the Scripture where Christ has explained that hatred is considered as murder by God? We were beheaded by the enemy all the time who do not want to hear our truthful testimony that is what Christ actually talked about. It is a spiritual war, Selah!

I agree with you that not everyone needs to be literally beheaded in order to be included among those that have part in the first resurrection.

 

[DavidPT]

Well as I am sure you will agree, the resurrection is a physical resurrection as spoken of in 1 Thess 4:16. But towards your question about the qualifications of one to be a priest. You have to remember that in the first resurrection, the dead are raised and made incorruptible and immortal and recieve a glorified body, so everything that happened in the person's past life is irrelevant.

But from an Amil perspective though, the first resurrection isn't bodily, thus, how then does this person fulfill the part about being a priest after death? Amils have the first resurrection occurring in this age when one is initially born again, then continuing the thousand year reign upon death, in heaven as souls still awaiting glorified bodies.