Is something really free if you attach a bunch conditions and demands to it?

xpower

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Is something really free if you attach a bunch conditions and demands to it?

Say if i walk up to you and said, I am going to give you ten dollars for free but only if you wash my car. I ask why do some Christians keep talking about "Christ's free gift of salvation"? It doesn't seem all that free to me when they attach a bunch conditions and demands to it.

It is understandable to say "don't kill people" or "love god and each other" , But some of the other stuff is a bit much.
 

RDKirk

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Is something really free if you attach a bunch conditions and demands to it?

Say if i walk up to you and said, I am going to give you ten dollars for free but only if you wash my car. I ask why do some Christians keep talking about "Christ's free gift of salvation"? It doesn't seem all that free to me when they attach a bunch conditions and demands to it.

It is understandable to say "don't kill people" or "love god and each other" , But some of the other stuff is a bit much.

Scripture never says it's without cost to follow the Lord. Rather, Jesus states up front and continually that the cost of following Him is astonishingly high.
 
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Tull

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No one is saved because they are righteous,they are righteous because they are saved,its all about fruit,people want to say they are an Apple tree but keep producing Oranges,the rebirth brings about a new spirit a"new creature" who's desires and motivations have changed,some change in an instant while others change over time.

I have heard people say that the bible has nothing to say to them,if they only knew the peril of that condition.
 
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pescador

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Is something really free if you attach a bunch conditions and demands to it?

Say if i walk up to you and said, I am going to give you ten dollars for free but only if you wash my car. I ask why do some Christians keep talking about "Christ's free gift of salvation"? It doesn't seem all that free to me when they attach a bunch conditions and demands to it.

It is understandable to say "don't kill people" or "love god and each other" , But some of the other stuff is a bit much.

What conditions and demands are they attaching to it? Paul wrote this to the church in Ephesus, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." If they are attaching a bunch conditions and demands to it, they don't know what they're talking about.
 
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graceandpeace

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I guess what "conditions" exist depends on who you talk to.

Salvation is wholeness, healing. We can't be whole or heal if we live lives that wound others & ourselves - and I don't agree that salvation is a one time only deal. We must continually, everyday, love & serve others. It's a process. If we don't love, how can we ever be whole? If we don't forgive, how can we ever heal?
 
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xpower

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In various places there are statements that God gives gifts to his people and gifts to his children. I think it's perfectly possible for there to be gifts that are only given to people who are Christ's followers.
I am perfectly fine with there being gifts that are only given to people who are Christ's followers. I would be surprised if there weren't. But is "salvation from the fate of eternal torture" a free gift?
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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I am perfectly fine with there being gifts that are only given to people who are Christ's followers. I would be surprised if there weren't. But is "salvation from the fate of eternal torture" a free gift?

It's free because we don't deserve it but God in His Love for us provided a way so we could receive salvation through Christ Jesus our Lord.

In your O.P you bring up the argument of how can it be a free gift if there are a bunch of conditions and demands.

If this is how you see this then your seeing is off. You are looking at it through the flesh which does not want to be told what to do.

Every man born of a woman is born into sin.
This means left to ourselves we can not ever enter into God's kingdom or Heaven and are on the path of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS which takes us to an eternity apart from God which is hell.

Nothing we can ever do out side of Christ will ever get us to the place where we can have life eternal with our God and Father.

So our Loving God sent Jesus to take our place. He suffered our penalties of sin for us.
We had nothing to do with this out side of God's love for us.

So We have a CHOICE to make. Accept this Free Gift of Christ that cost us nothing and make Him Lord of our life which places us in the REALM of His Righteousness and enables us to receive His salvation and spend eternity with Him.

Now then think about what Christ Suffered for. Do you really think He did this so you can continue in sin and living as you please and fulfilling the lust and desires of the flesh?

What purpose would there be for Jesus to suffer Big and be nailed to the cross and be separated from the Father and end up in hell where He SUFFERED BIG TIME for our penalties and then God breathed life back into Jesus (God's Spirit Returned) and Jesus defeated and stripped satan of his power and authority and took back the keys of death and was raised up for us. Just because He Loves us.

So yes the Gift of Salvation is Free for us to choose......BUT we are not free to live anyway we want IF we want to keep this free gift of salvation.

These demands and rules and regulations as you speak of don't even exist except to those who are lost or running from Gods Gift of Salvation.
For those who Accept His Free Gift of Salvation We Find Philippians 2:13 joyfully working in us....
For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Bottom Line.....your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow.

Is the glass half empty or half full.....you choose.
Blessings in Christ
FCJ
 
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pescador

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It's free because we don't deserve it but God in His Love for us provided a way so we could receive salvation through Christ Jesus our Lord.

In your O.P you bring up the argument of how can it be a free gift if there are a bunch of conditions and demands.

If this is how you see this then your seeing is off. You are looking at it through the flesh which does not want to be told what to do.

Every man born of a woman is born into sin.
This means left to ourselves we can not ever enter into God's kingdom or Heaven and are on the path of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS which takes us to an eternity apart from God which is hell.

Nothing we can ever do out side of Christ will ever get us to the place where we can have life eternal with our God and Father.

So our Loving God sent Jesus to take our place. He suffered our penalties of sin for us.
We had nothing to do with this out side of God's love for us.

So We have a CHOICE to make. Accept this Free Gift of Christ that cost us nothing and make Him Lord of our life which places us in the REALM of His Righteousness and enables us to receive His salvation and spend eternity with Him.

Now then think about what Christ Suffered for. Do you really think He did this so you can continue in sin and living as you please and fulfilling the lust and desires of the flesh?

What purpose would there be for Jesus to suffer Big and be nailed to the cross and be separated from the Father and end up in hell where He SUFFERED BIG TIME for our penalties and then God breathed life back into Jesus (God's Spirit Returned) and Jesus defeated and stripped satan of his power and authority and took back the keys of death and was raised up for us. Just because He Loves us.

So yes the Gift of Salvation is Free for us to choose......BUT we are not free to live anyway we want IF we want to keep this free gift of salvation.

These demands and rules and regulations as you speak of don't even exist except to those who are lost or running from Gods Gift of Salvation.
For those who Accept His Free Gift of Salvation We Find Philippians 2:13 joyfully working in us....
For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Bottom Line.....your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow.

Is the glass half empty or half full.....you choose.
Blessings in Christ
FCJ

I agree with most, but not all, of this post. The parts I disagree with are...

1) "So yes the Gift of Salvation is Free for us to choose......BUT we are not free to live anyway we want IF we want to keep this free gift of salvation."

If we are saved by God's grace then it will not be taken away from us. That was the condition of the Old Covenant with its rules and regulations that were impossible to keep. God has made a covenant with us because we are in his son, and that covenant will not be broken unless we voluntarily reject it. The New Covenant is not dependent on our behavior but on God's unfailing grace to his son. Because we are in him God sees us as sinless.

2) Bottom Line.....your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow."

This only applies to someone who hasn't accepted Christ as his/her savior. If a person has accepted God's free gift then their lost flesh no longer lives. As Paul wrote, you cannot be married to two husbands; if you are alive in Christ then you are dead to sin and it will no longer have mastery over you.
 
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Is something really free if you attach a bunch conditions and demands to it?

Say if i walk up to you and said, I am going to give you ten dollars for free but only if you wash my car. I ask why do some Christians keep talking about "Christ's free gift of salvation"? It doesn't seem all that free to me when they attach a bunch conditions and demands to it.

It is understandable to say "don't kill people" or "love god and each other" , But some of the other stuff is a bit much.

The only "condition" that is attached to it is that you accept God's gift. There are no strings attached and no conditions that need to be followed. If I give you something on the condition that you give me something in return it's not a gift. It's bartering or wages.
 
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Scripture never says it's without cost to follow the Lord. Rather, Jesus states up front and continually that the cost of following Him is astonishingly high.

This is contrary to the Gospel. Jesus demanded of his followers that they must do certain things if they are to be his disciples but, and this is very, very important, these people had not yet received God's free gift of salvation. Once he paid the price and gave us (freely) the Holy Spirit, nothing more needs to be done.
 
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I guess what "conditions" exist depends on who you talk to.

Salvation is wholeness, healing. We can't be whole or heal if we live lives that wound others & ourselves - and I don't agree that salvation is a one time only deal. We must continually, everyday, love & serve others. It's a process. If we don't love, how can we ever be whole? If we don't forgive, how can we ever heal?

It is "a one time only deal". We love and serve others by the Holy Spirit that has been given to us, not from our own efforts. Salvation is not about us, i.e., making ourselves whole and healing ourselves. That is self-centered; Christianity is other-centered. Love your neighbor as yourself is for his/her benefit, not yours.
 
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I am perfectly fine with there being gifts that are only given to people who are Christ's followers. I would be surprised if there weren't. But is "salvation from the fate of eternal torture" a free gift?

Yes!
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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I agree with most, but not all, of this post. The parts I disagree with are...

1) "So yes the Gift of Salvation is Free for us to choose......BUT we are not free to live anyway we want IF we want to keep this free gift of salvation."

If we are saved by God's grace then it will not be taken away from us. That was the condition of the Old Covenant with its rules and regulations that were impossible to keep. God has made a covenant with us because we are in his son, and that covenant will not be broken unless we voluntarily reject it. The New Covenant is not dependent on our behavior but on God's unfailing grace to his son. Because we are in him God sees us as sinless.

2) Bottom Line.....your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow."

This only applies to someone who hasn't accepted Christ as his/her savior. If a person has accepted God's free gift then their lost flesh no longer lives. As Paul wrote, you cannot be married to two husbands; if you are alive in Christ then you are dead to sin and it will no longer have mastery over you.

Greetings @pescador
I am responding in the order you quoted me.

You did not accept this
"So yes the Gift of Salvation is Free for us to choose......BUT we are not free to live anyway we want IF we want to keep this free gift of salvation."
and You said that was only by old testiment laws. Well let's look at what the new Testament says.....

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those who do what my Father in heaven wants. 22 On that Day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we expel demons in your name? Didn’t we perform many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them to their faces, ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in Your name and done many mighty works in Your name?

23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].

Luke 13:25

When once the Master of the house gets up and closes the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door [again and again], saying, Lord, open to us! He will answer you, I do not know where [what household—certainly not Mine] you come from.

Hebrews 6:4-4

For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,

5 And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,

6 If they then deviate from the faithand turn away from their allegiance—[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt andshame and public disgrace.

for [it is] impossible for those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit,

5 and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,

6 and having fallen away, again to renew [them] to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

As I said any one who lives however they want or walks away from obedience of walking in God's ways is not guaranteed His salvation. There does come a time the Holy Spirit will leave you or never have taken root in you.

Now then let's look at your next I don't agree with.......
I said......
2) Bottom Line.....your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow."

You Said......
This only applies to someone who hasn't accepted Christ as his/her savior. If a person has accepted God's free gift then their lost flesh no longer lives. As Paul wrote, you cannot be married to two husbands; if you are alive in Christ then you are dead to sin and it will no longer have mastery over you.

Actually this is not 100 percent true.
Scripture says we are no longer slaves to sin.
This does not mean we are sinless but it does mean that for the first time in our lives we have the ability to overcome the sin nature.
This means we work at this from the time we are born again until we are home with the Father.

Also see these....this is yet another thing we must work on 24/7/365.

Romans 12:2. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5.
Galatians 5:16. 2 Corinthians 9:8

Romans 12:2 ....
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

(Get His word in you each and every day and speak His word each and every day)

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds

5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

(Begin to practice the words you speak and thoughts you think for our thoughts and words to control how we act or react and believe. Our own words do more do influence our thinking then most of everything else)

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

(The more you do the first two the more you will begin to walk in the Spirit and you will be amazed to say the least)

All done through the Grace of God who maketh all grace abound to me. (2Corinthians 9:8)

Now then how can you say that
your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth and Accepting God's Free Gift of Salvation by seeing it as RULES and DEMANDS in which your lost flesh will not willingly follow."

Are for unbelievers or unsaved OTHER then the fact I did mention .... this is what makes you see things in this way.. And of course not wanting to accept Christ because of seeing His most Holy Written Word as rules and demands would mean such said subject was not born again......

However this still APPLIES to Christians
your flesh and ungodly desires are motivated by the influence of evil spirits and principalities in which keep you blinded from the truth .

Our enemy the devil is at work 24/7/365
placing thoughts in you, (those are fiery darts) these if not recognized and cast down and met with the Word of God will influence your thinking and actions and reactions.

Don't be deceived in thinking you don't need to be concerned with this, because We ALL DO.
These thoughts don't come smelling like sulfur and look evil.
No they come with scripture, reasoning and feelings etc. They will look and sound right and even make sense so you need to take EVERY thought captive and know God's Written word truthfully.

Those who think once they get saved all is ok and do what ever they wish are living a most dangerous life which ultimately effects their future and eternity.

In His Grip
FCJ
 
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The only "condition" that is attached to it is that you accept God's gift. There are no strings attached and no conditions that need to be followed.

Oh really?
If this were true there could be NO "if's" in God's most Holy Written Word. However His Word is filled with "IF"
Again Salvation is a Free Gift because we can not do anything to get it OUTSIDE of Christ.
This does not mean there is nothing else to it or that one does not have to follow SET ways of living...
There is a huge difference.
Blessings
FCJ
 
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RDKirk

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This is contrary to the Gospel. Jesus demanded of his followers that they must do certain things if they are to be his disciples but, and this is very, very important, these people had not yet received God's free gift of salvation. Once he paid the price and gave us (freely) the Holy Spirit, nothing more needs to be done.

There is no price we pay for salvation, but there is a cost to being saved. The Holy Spirit does not negate:

Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it.
 
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pescador

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Oh really?
If this were true there could be NO "if's" in God's most Holy Written Word. However His Word is filled with "IF"
Again Salvation is a Free Gift because we can not do anything to get it OUTSIDE of Christ.
This does not mean there is nothing else to it or that one does not have to follow SET ways of living...
There is a huge difference.
Blessings
FCJ

I'm really saddened by the replies to my post. Jesus freed us from the Mosaic law, with its rules that must be followed or the punishments for breaking the rules will apply.

When Paul says "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" what do you think he's writing about? If Christ lives in me then I no longer have to struggle with what I must do (continually) to please God. If I must do more to please God then the crucifixion was only partially successful, since there is more I must do.

Think about the parable of the prodigal son. When he returned, what did he have to do to please his father? Absolutely nothing! He was loved by his father unconditionally even in his wretched state. He wanted to be like one of the servants who continually tried to please his master, yet the father freely and amply rewarded him just because he was his son.

It is a serious mistake to apply the gospels, where the message is delivered to non-Christians. Once Jesus paid for all sins and the Holy Spirit was given to believers we have entered into God's rest. Before Adam sinned he was given everything he needed for abundant life; after the fall he had to work to survive.

If you all want to beat yourself up by continually trying to obey some rules to please God, be my guest (although I feel sorry for you). As for me, I have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, and my "work" (which it really isn't) is to love others with the love God has freely given me. Christianity is an outward-giving way of life, not a self-centered activity to try to earn the love that is already there.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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@pescador
Paul said we only know in part. So if we only know part then we must grasp there is parts we don't know and it's the parts we don't know that are as wholes in our doctrines and understanding. Another words none of us has arrived to our fullness in Christ.
So if our hearts are right we will be able to learn and grow in Christ.

Now you keep coming back with the law.
There are many types of laws.
Law of gravity, law of Moses and Kingdom law and so forth.

We are not concerned with old removed law in which you believe we are talking about.

Yes the promises of God are yes and amen.
This does not mean one will experience them. There are Kingdom Laws that must be followed. These are the commands in God's Written Word.

Two things....
If you walk in unforgiveness then you are not walking in love which will effect your faith and steal your blessing or answer.
That's just a little example.

On the other side if one stops obeying the Holy Spirit and continues doing what they want and keep going against the Holy Spirit there can come a day where the Holy Spirit will leave and if He leaves then satan moves in.

Again not talking about the old removed law.
Blessings
FCJ
 
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I disagree. You say Christians are not concerned with old removed law in which you believe we are talking about yet many Christians behave like Old Covenant "believers". There is way too much, almost 100%, discussion of doctrine and/or biblical exegesis that goes on all the time. But that has little to do with true Christianity. We are supposed to live out our faith for the benefit of others, yet many constantly measure themselves to see if they are adhering to doctrine and/or behavior of self.

If we are not filled up with the love of God then we constantly work on self-improvement which is not at all what God wants. If we are filled up with God's love then we can devote our lives to serving others.

So many Christians are worried that they might fall under the power of sin so they constantly fight against it. That is totally self-centered. Paul said that he was dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus, and I agree with him 110%. We are God's children, 100% loved by him regardless of our weaknesses.

I am a parent. When my children misbehave I correct them and when they do the right thing I praise them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether I love them or not. I don't expect them to be perfect, but they are forever part of my family; I would never reject them. I expect them to grow up to be good citizens, to love and serve others. It's the same as God's relationship with us, his children in Christ. He doesn't expect us to be perfect and understands that we have weaknesses, but his love and approval are always there. It doesn't matter if we sin on occasion as Christ has already taken the punishment for our sins. We are forever God's adopted children. The only way that can ever change is if we voluntarily choose not to be a part of God's family.

Christians would be much better off if they realized that constantly trying to do better and/or do what's right is futile; God loves us and forgives our weaknesses. We are supposed to be "a light on a hill" to the world. If we have that light, then we shouldn't hide it under our (self-centered) bed by focusing on trying to be perfect, but instead reflect the glory of God.
 
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