Is sin the reason for one's damnation or not?

[janxharris]

In 'What love is this,' Dave Hunt asserts that:

"As a result of Christ's death having paid the full penalty, no one will spend eternity in the lake of fire because of his sins; they will be there for rejecting Christ and the salvation He obtained and freely offers to all."
(Chapter 16, Limited Atonement)​

FreeGrace2 has said much the same:

"But because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, no one goes there for sin. It was paid for. They go there because they don't possess eternal life."
(See here)​

How is such an understanding congruent with the following:

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

 

[cygnusx1]

Well picked up janx

Simply FG and Hunt are wrong , keep pressing forward with your enquiry .

 

[janxharris]

Well picked up janx

Simply FG and Hunt are wrong , keep pressing forward with your enquiry .

Nevertheless, I believe Christ's death was available to all - it was unlimited in its provision.

 

[SuperLuey]

A man will go to hell for rejecting the gift of righteousness in Christ.
Pretty much what those books you quoted said.
I will look up those verses in acts in their original language later.
Good thread.

 

[AndOne]

In 'What love is this,' Dave Hunt asserts that:

"As a result of Christ's death having paid the full penalty, no one will spend eternity in the lake of fire because of his sins; they will be there for rejecting Christ and the salvation He obtained and freely offers to all."
(Chapter 16, Limited Atonement)​

FreeGrace2 has said much the same:

"But because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, no one goes there for sin. It was paid for. They go there because they don't possess eternal life."
(See here)​

How is such an understand congruent with the following:

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

I don't think it does. The problem I have with the line of reasoning from Dave Hunt (other than it doesn't jive w/ scripture) is that it leaves the door wide open for Antinomianism and liberalism. Think about it. If the only sin human beings are responsible for is rejecting Christ than those who do accept Christ will have no problem accepting or overlooking various sinful behaviors among themselves and non- Christians. I personally believe this is one reason the sin of homosexuality is gaining ground in many denominations. Sanctification is critical in the salvation process. Through the Spirit a change of heart occurs and the Christian will move away from sin and when he can't - he despises it (see Romans 7). Sin is alive and well and we must fight to overcome it - Mr. Hunt seems to want to minimalize that.

 

[sdowney717]

God says "The soul who sins shall die.'' in Ezek 18.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4

God's track record on truth is trustworthy compare to man's and Satan's.

 

[sdowney717]

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

"Walk in the light."

Those who belong to Christ should walk as Jesus walked.
For example those who are homosexual, sexually deviant immoral people, are not walking in the light.
Those who approve of them encouraging them to continue in their sins are not walking in the light.

God KNOWS those who are His and God KNOWS those who are not.

 

[Steeno7]

In 'What love is this,' Dave Hunt asserts that:

"As a result of Christ's death having paid the full penalty, no one will spend eternity in the lake of fire because of his sins; they will be there for rejecting Christ and the salvation He obtained and freely offers to all."
(Chapter 16, Limited Atonement)​

FreeGrace2 has said much the same:

"But because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, no one goes there for sin. It was paid for. They go there because they don't possess eternal life."
(See here)​

How is such an understand congruent with the following:

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

He's right in that the reason people go to hell is because they are dead and do not have life. But He is wrong in that it is the sin of unbelief, which is the sin of the world (John 16:9), that is their rejection of Christ in whom is life.

 

[janxharris]

I don't think it does. The problem I have with the line of reasoning from Dave Hunt (other than it doesn't jive w/ scripture) is that it leaves the door wide open for Antinomianism and liberalism. Think about it. If the only sin human beings are responsible for is rejecting Christ than those who do accept Christ will have no problem accepting or overlooking various sinful behaviors among themselves and non- Christians. I personally believe this is one reason the sin of homosexuality is gaining ground in many denominations. Sanctification is critical in the salvation process. Through the Spirit a change of heart occurs and the Christian will move away from sin and when he can't - he despises it (see Romans 7). Sin is alive and well and we must fight to overcome it - Mr. Hunt seems to want to minimalize that.

Even so, Hunt was not an antinomianist...but I do take your point...some might make such an argument.

I agree that the scriptures I cited do not harmonize with the assertion that the damned aren't in hell because of their sin but because they rejected Christ. They clearly state that one's sins are blotted out if one believes.

 

[janxharris]

"Walk in the light."

Those who belong to Christ should walk as Jesus walked.
For example those who are homosexual, sexually deviant immoral people, are not walking in the light.

True, but nor are those who lie or who have just one lustful thought.

Those who approve of them encouraging them to continue in their sins are not walking in the light.

Agreed

 

[sdowney717]

True, but nor are those who lie or who have just one lustful thought.
Agreed

Further God says this

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

People do not thirst for God, no one seeks for God in the natural, that is God known by way of the name of Jesus Christ. They do search for other gods. Even old Israel went after other gods.
The thirsty here are those within whom God has placed the desire for God to know Him and supernaturally seek for Him.

6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.

It is God who has blessed them who search for being made right with Him.
Proof that this bold thought is not of their own is demonstrated by Paul quoting Isaiah.

20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”[n]

 

[janxharris]

Further God says this



People do not thirst for God, no one seeks for God in the natural, that is God known by way of the name of Jesus Christ. They do search for other gods. Even old Israel went after other gods.
The thirsty here are those within whom God has placed the desire for God to know Him and supernaturally seek for Him.


It is God who has blessed them who search for being made right with Him.
Proof that this bold thought is not of their own is demonstrated by Paul quoting Isaiah.

Thanks, but this is getting off track.

 

[janxharris]

A man will go to hell for rejecting the gift of righteousness in Christ.
Pretty much what those books you quoted said.
I will look up those verses in acts in their original language later.
Good thread.

Just to be clear (and pedantic), only one book is quoted - the other citation is from a Christian Forums' member.

 

[AndOne]

Even so, Hunt was not an antinomianist...but I do take your point...some might make such an argument.

I agree that the scriptures I cited do not harmonize with the assertion that the damned aren't in hell because of their sin but because they rejected Christ. They clearly state that one's sins are blotted out if one believes.

 

[Hammster]

In 'What love is this,' Dave Hunt asserts that:

"As a result of Christ's death having paid the full penalty, no one will spend eternity in the lake of fire because of his sins; they will be there for rejecting Christ and the salvation He obtained and freely offers to all."
(Chapter 16, Limited Atonement)​

FreeGrace2 has said much the same:

"But because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, no one goes there for sin. It was paid for. They go there because they don't possess eternal life."
(See here)​

How is such an understand congruent with the following:

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

The problem I see with Hunt's view is that it makes rejection of Christ to not be sinful. I think that's the greatest sin (if they can be quantified). It's really the basis for all other sin.

The problem I have with FG's view is that hell is unjust because according to his view, Christ to the punishment of sin for all men. So it's no longer seen as punishment (because Christ took the punishment for all), but just a place to send unbelievers.

 

[granpa]

In 'What love is this,' Dave Hunt asserts that:

"As a result of Christ's death having paid the full penalty, no one will spend eternity in the lake of fire because of his sins; they will be there for rejecting Christ and the salvation He obtained and freely offers to all."
(Chapter 16, Limited Atonement)​

FreeGrace2 has said much the same:

"But because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, no one goes there for sin. It was paid for. They go there because they don't possess eternal life."
(See here)​

How is such an understand congruent with the following:

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

the fall is the reason why heaven (Gods infinite light) appears to us and seems to us like hell
which is why we can't get to heaven until we are saved


http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/spirituality/the-kingdom-of-heaven/heaven-and-hell

 

[janxharris]

the fall is the reason why heaven (Gods infinite light) appears to us and seems to us like hell
which is why we can't get to heaven until we are saved

I'm not following you. Does this address the op?

 

[granpa]

I believe the topic is:

Is sin the reason for one's damnation or not?

 

[janxharris]

I believe the topic is:

Okay but I still don't understand how your post addressed the specifics of the op.

 

[granpa]

you fall when you first "sin"