Is sin really the transgression of the law?

[Cribstyl]

There is no need to be unsure as to what sin is. God's WORD is very clear.

WHAT IS SIN?

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 John 3
4 Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

Links to...........

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to............

Romans 3
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

God's Word is in disagreement with you my friend. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments)




You may want to re-visit that statement and what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW"

God's Word says to be "UNDER THE LAW" is to be guilty of breaking God's LAW. (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4)

When you understand what it means to be 'UNDER THE LAW" then all the scriptures above make sense.

It is true you are not "UNDER THE LAW" if you have REPENTED, CONFESSED, FORSAKEN your SINS and BELIEVE God's promise of FORGIVENESS (Prov 28:13; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 1 John 1:9) but if you are still practicing KNOWN UNREPETNANT SIN then you are still "UNDER THE LAW" and guilty of SIN (breaking God's LAW).

Romans 3
19, Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

God's LAW (10 Commandments) is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and lead us to JESUS (Gal 3:24-25) that we might be justified by FAITH. Not being "UNDER THE LAW" means your no longer under the CONDEMNATION of the LAW because you have been FOGIVEN for your SINS.

IF you are still CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN you do not KNOW GOD because you have rejected his GIFT of SALVATION through his Son and you are still in your SINS.

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Really? This #2 post shows a gross lack of respect for the Original Post (OP). Why? You took over the conversation with your dominant perspectives on these matters.
Did you define Sin? NO!!!! The OP's question is, "Is sin transgression of the law?" The OP was 100% correct to prove the KJV, that "whosever sins "ALSO" transgresseth the law....... , "ALSO" in 1John 3:4 distinguishes sin and breaking the law as independent issues.
.........................
It seems more germane to the OP that James 1:14-15 explained sin as : a man drawn by his own lust, when his lust matures it causes sin.
So, Sin is caused by lust from the inside of a man and when lust is full blown, it causes a man to sin. The wages of sin is death.
Jas 1:14 - But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

You have your reasons for posting James 2:8-11, but does it address the OP's question or your manmade agenda about the law.

I wont confuse my response by a long post.
PEACE

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Really? This #2 post shows a gross lack of respect for the Original Post (OP). Why? You took over the conversation with your dominant perspectives on these matters.
Did you define Sin? NO!!!! The OP's question is, "Is sin transgression of the law?" The OP was 100% correct to prove the KJV, that "whosever sins "ALSO" transgresseth the law....... , "ALSO" in 1John 3:4 distinguishes sin and breaking the law as independent issues.
.........................
It seems more germane to the OP that James 1:14-15 explained sin as : a man drawn by his own lust, when his lust matures it causes sin.
So, Sin is caused by lust from the inside of a man and when lust is full blown. it cause a man to sin. The wages of sin is death.
Jas 1:14 - But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

You have your reasons for posting James 2:8-11, but does it really address the OP's question or your agenda?

I wont confuse my response by a long post.
PEACE

Sorry Cribstyl, simply stating your own words over God's WORD does not make the scriptures dissappear which define what sin is in God's WORD that disagree with you. If you disagee with the bibles interpretation of what sin then it only shows your in error.

 

[klutedavid]

Marco70 is it sin [1 John 3:4 KJB] for the Christian to transgress Exodus 20:8-11 in its specific words, yes/no? Why or why not? And if no what happened to it? Where is it?

God's Ten Commandments - - - - Marco70's 'law' on the heart
[01] Exodus 20:1-3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [01]
[02] Exodus 20:4-6 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [02]
[03] Exodus 20:7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [03]
[04] Exodus 20:8-11 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [??]
[05] Exodus 20:12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [05]
[06] Exodus 20:13 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [06]
[07] Exodus 20:14 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [07]
[08] Exodus 20:15 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [08]
[09] Exodus 20:16 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [09]
[10] Exodus 20:17 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [10]​

James 2:10 KJB - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Marco70, what Law was specifically written in Jesus' heart by the Holy Ghost? He is the example for mankind, and must have the right Law, what Laws were those and where can I find a copy of what they say so I can compare the written word to the 'spirit', since all things must be tested by the word, even the spirits of Zimbabwe [Isaiah 8:20 KJB] for there are false and lying spirits that may try to deceive me [1 Timothy 4:1 KJB]:

1 John 4:1 KJB - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Revelation 16:13 KJB - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 16:14 KJB - For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.​

What laws?

Psalms 40:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 40:9 KJB - I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.​

I need to see a written copy of this Law that you speak of Marco70 in the Bible, where can it be found to be specifically written out?

Your quoting the letter of the law from Exodus 20.

You should be quoting the expanded form of these commandments, since you are claiming the expanded format of the ten commandments.

You are not really talking about the physical act of murder, i.e., thou shall not kill. You should be talking about the state of mind that calls someone a fool, denigrates others, e.t.c. Jesus greatly amplified that commandment almost beyond recognition. It is very rare for someone to kill another person, yet speaking down to others is a modern lifestyle, example; bullying, sarcasm, e.t.c.

You need to put the effort into rewriting the ten commandments, into a format that is readily understood by everyone. The simple, 'thou shall not kill', is written in old English and extremely misleading, virtually the whole of society obeys that one anyway. But they don't obey it and probably never will, yet no one has told them that they smash the law daily.

 

[Cribstyl]

Sorry Cribstyl, simply stating your own words over God's WORD does not make the scriptures dissappear which define what sin is in God's WORD that disagree with you. If you disagee with the bibles interpretation of what sin then it only shows your in error.

Sorry LGW, simply stating your own words over God's word does not make the scripture disappear. This thread is based on 1John 3:4 which states
1Jo 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
You often site 1John 3:4 but only use the partial quote "sin is transgression of the law". You do it to supports your man made premise of "no law no sin."
It's easy to be silent on " Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: You're the one trying to make the scripture disappear by omission of half of it. Posting links about the law only highjacks the dialog.
Hmmm, Now you're accusing me because I've addressed what you've ignored about 1John 3:4.
I've never raised more two scriptures with you because you will confuse the issues with long confusing responses. Man up and address 1John 3:4 or we're done here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Man up and address 1John 3:4 or we're done here.

Already have here are the scriptures that disagree with you that James, Paul and John all agree together that SIN is breaking God's 10 Commandments.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT ALREADY POSTED HERE CLICK ME

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[BobRyan]

BTW
If I committed murder, adultery, stole, bore false witness, failed to love-or honour my parents, and failed to love others, I would be conscious I sinned by doing so, absolutely.

Agreed.

And in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns that idea for Christians.

In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".

You only quoted three lines of what I wrote, so I will more fully explain the rest:

As you know, in Christ's day, the people who were the most guilty of breaking the moral law

In the NT "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

And even your own pro-Sunday scholars like those in my signature line affirm the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God.

No "news" there.

, were the teachers of the law and Pharisees. But they did clean the outside of the cup

So then we CONTINUE to say "taking God's name in vain" is STILL breaking the LAW and as James 2 - is still sin even for Christians.

I'm going to write this in emboldened letters:

The people who most insist you must obey the law/TC, with either the strong inference heaven hinges on it/you can only be in a saved state if you do obey

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

So then - the Law of God STILL matters according to Paul

1 Cor 7:19 what MATTERS is keeping the Commandments of God"


So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

I will just give you one example. A few years ago a friend asked me to go to church with them on a Saturday. I honestly went with an open mind, I truly did. I figured if the only difference between them and me was which day they went to church it was no big deal. ...

stories and creative writing are good as far as they go...

But I prefer the actual Bible.

Amen to that:

The letter kills 2Cor3:6

As you know, paul was referring to the TC in the above.

And ALSO referring to the same law in Romans 3 - as it condemns all mankind as sinners ... and yet "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31.

For even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.

Now you believe don't you, you are not under the condemnation of the law, as long as you fully obey the law/don't break the law.

By definition "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"these things I write that you sin NOT" 1 John 2:1
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"the IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2=3

When we see - we repent. Period. We don't "circle the wagons around rebellion".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.

The point remains.

Obviously.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
I am not under the condemnation of my government's law against stealing... but if I do steal - I will be guilty of stealing under that law.

This is not even remotely confusing.

If I DO steal and someone pays my debt and expunges my record then once again I am not guilty under the LAW of my state of stealing.

Then if I "steal again" I am convicted as James 2 says -- as a transgressor of that law.

I understand your point.

And James point in James 2 ??

James 2
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,


8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.(NASB)

==================


1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

So then - the Law of God STILL matters according to Paul

1 Cor 7:19 what MATTERS is keeping the Commandments of God"


So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

 

[BobRyan]

I understand your point. ..
Only Lets, not downplay the TC. Lets hold them to the pristine level they are set at.

Agreed.

And in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns that idea for Christians.
In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.
The point remains.
Obviously.

So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

And it would be wrong -- even for you -- to take God's name in vain.

 

[Marco70]

Agreed.

And in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns that idea for Christians.

In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".



In the NT "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

And even your own pro-Sunday scholars like those in my signature line affirm the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God.

No "news" there.



So then we CONTINUE to say "taking God's name in vain" is STILL breaking the LAW and as James 2 - is still sin even for Christians.



1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

So then - the Law of God STILL matters according to Paul

1 Cor 7:19 what MATTERS is keeping the Commandments of God"


So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.



stories and creative writing are good as far as they go...

But I prefer the actual Bible.



And ALSO referring to the same law in Romans 3 - as it condemns all mankind as sinners ... and yet "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31.

For even in the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.



By definition "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"these things I write that you sin NOT" 1 John 2:1
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"the IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2=3

When we see - we repent. Period. We don't "circle the wagons around rebellion".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.

The point remains.

Obviously.

Paul states:
The letter kills(present, not past tense) 2Cor3:6

He was referring g to the letter of the TC as you know.
He did not say:
Now you are Christians and Christ dwells in you, you can fully obey the letter of the TC.
He told Christians: The letter kills.
You preach the letter, as the Pharisees of Jesus day did. According to scripture, you cannot obey that letter. Which leads to hypocrisy.

Now I could tell you that in a few short sentances, no need to endlessly quote the letter (with misunderstanding of it) was there
So, according to your oft repeated example of stealing, you are under the condemnation of the law. For you cannot fully obey the letter that kills. Your debt got expunged for breaking the law when you got saved. But then, you continue to break the law/the letter that kills, therefore you are under the condemnation of the law. And, therefore, according to your quote of James 2:10 you are guilty, and under the condemnation of breaking the entire law. Not hard to understand at all Bob, no confusion in what you believe

 

[Marco70]

BobRyan said: ↑
I am not under the condemnation of my government's law against stealing... but if I do steal - I will be guilty of stealing under that law.

This is not even remotely confusing.

If I DO steal and someone pays my debt and expunges my record then once again I am not guilty under the LAW of my state of stealing.

Then if I "steal again" I am convicted as James 2 says -- as a transgressor of that law.

Once again:

Paul states:
The letter kills(present, not past tense) 2Cor3:6

He was referring g to the letter of the TC as you know.
He did not say:
Now you are Christians and Christ dwells in you, you can fully obey the letter of the TC.
He told Christians: The letter kills.
You preach the letter, as the Pharisees of Jesus day did. According to scripture, you cannot obey that letter. Which leads to hypocrisy.

Now I could tell you that in a few short sentances, no need to endlessly quote the letter (with misunderstanding of it) was there
So, according to your oft repeated example of stealing, you are under the condemnation of the law. For you cannot fully obey the letter that kills. Your debt got expunged for breaking the law when you got saved. But then, you continue to break the law/the letter that kills, therefore you are under the condemnation of the law. And, therefore, according to your quote of James 2:10 you are guilty, and under the condemnation of breaking the entire law. Not hard to understand at all Bob, no confusion in what you believe

 

[Marco70]

So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

And it would be wrong -- even for you -- to take God's name in vain.

Ignored the point made, no surprise there:

The letter kills(the letter of the TC/moral law)

So:

If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them 1John1:8

Same as saying:

If anyone claims not to break the law they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.

 

[Marco70]

So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

And it would be wrong -- even for you -- to take God's name in vain.

BTW
The only church I have ever been to where they took the Lords name in vain, laughing as they did so, apparently not conscious they sinned by doing so, was an sda church

 

[Marco70]

I think it a pity, that most(only most) of our sda brethren, only come on websites such as these to convince you, you must observe a set Saturday Sabbath. Unfortunately, according to what they then write, they fail to understand the meaning of three simple words written in scripture:
The letter kills.
Not the letter did kill, not you can now obey the letter for Christ dwells in you, but simply:
The letter kills. Written to Christians in whom Christ dwelt. And the letter being referred to, as we know was the letter of the TC.

In my view, anyone who believes they can faultlessly obey the letter, the bible terms: The letter that kills/TC will not understand spiritual truth, though, that does not stop them reeling off much of the letter itself.
As a brother on another website stated:
How can anyone with the moral law in their hearts and minds believe they faultlessly obey it?

A very good question I thought.

Many of us do understand the letter kills, for those who cannot comprehend it, there is only hypocrisy left. For they will, never practice what they preach/demand of others.

 

[BobRyan]

BTW
The only church I have ever been to where they took the Lords name in vain, laughing as they did so, apparently not conscious they sinned by doing so, was an sda church

nonsense.

But I like the idea that you are trying to get your response to be that you agree that taking God's name in vain is wrong even for Christians - even for you.

How "nice" that we can agree on something. Let's hold that thought each time you appear to remind us that what is actually written in scripture is not all that significant to Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

I think it a pity, that most(only most) of our sda brethren, only come on websites such as these to convince you, you must observe a set Saturday Sabbath.

Are you imagining for us that God's Sabbath commandment does not actually say "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Exodus 20:10???

Are you imagining for us that Christ was not raised on the first day of the week "sunday" which obviously makes Saturday the 7th day of the week?

Are you imagining for us that only SDAs admit to this obvious Bible detail?

Have you imagined for us that the still-valid-TEN is not a Bible detail so incredibly obvious that even these pro-Sunday scholars do not in fact affirm that all TEN remains?

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

OR is it your claim that you JOIN them in affirming that all TEN of the TEN Commandments remain and are in the moral law of God "written on the heart" - but that commandments of God can be re-imagined by tradition and in this case Exodus 20:10 turned into "any day in 7 that you wish is the Sabbath"?


==========================

Because if your goal is to imagine all that for us - well you have free will in that regard. But why in the world should we go along with it??

Please be serious.

 

[BobRyan]

I understand your point. ..
Only Lets, not downplay the TC. Lets hold them to the pristine level they are set at.

Agreed.

And in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns that idea (of breaking God's commandments) for Christians.
In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.
The point remains.
Obviously.

So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

And it would be wrong -- even for you -- to take God's name in vain.

===================

notice the 'details' in that response - - regarding your own proposal that we keep God's Word at its "pristine level".

in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns the idea (of breaking God's commandments) for Christians.
In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.
The point remains.
Obviously.

Ignored the point made, no surprise there:

Then stop doing it. And we can move forward... it is that simple.

Hint - notice the title of this thread as compared to Genesis 3 where Satan says "Has God really said ...?"

So in response to "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" in 1 John 3:4 we have "IS sin really the transgression of the LAW?"

The argument "is with the text"

 

[Marco70]

nonsense.

.

How can you say nonsense? I was telling the truth.

Don't be so eager to bear false witness

 

[Marco70]

Are you imagining for us that God's Sabbath commandment does not actually say "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Exodus 20:10???

Are you imagining for us that Christ was not raised on the first day of the week "sunday" which obviously makes Saturday the 7th day of the week?

Are you imagining for us that only SDAs admit to this obvious Bible detail?

Have you imagined for us that the still-valid-TEN is not a Bible detail so incredibly obvious that even these pro-Sunday scholars do not in fact affirm that all TEN remains?

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

OR is it your claim that you JOIN them in affirming that all TEN of the TEN Commandments remain and are in the moral law of God "written on the heart" - but that commandments of God can be re-imagined by tradition and in this case Exodus 20:10 turned into "any day in 7 that you wish is the Sabbath"?


==========================

Because if your goal is to imagine all that for us - well you have free will in that regard. But why in the world should we go along with it??

Please be serious.

Feel free to address the post if you like

I think it a pity, that most(only most) of our sda brethren, only come on websites such as these to convince you, you must observe a set Saturday Sabbath. Unfortunately, according to what they then write, they fail to understand the meaning of three simple words written in scripture:
The letter kills.
Not the letter did kill, not you can now obey the letter for Christ dwells in you, but simply:
The letter kills. Written to Christians in whom Christ dwelt. And the letter being referred to, as we know was the letter of the TC.

In my view, anyone who believes they can faultlessly obey the letter, the bible terms: The letter that kills/TC will not understand spiritual truth, though, that does not stop them reeling off much of the letter itself.
As a brother on another website stated:
How can anyone with the moral law in their hearts and minds believe they faultlessly obey it?

A very good question I thought.

Many of us do understand the letter kills, for those who cannot comprehend it, there is only hypocrisy left. For they will, never practice what they preach/demand of others.

 

[Marco70]

So what is your response to this ?? "Do not take God's name in vain" is still valid.

And it would be wrong -- even for you -- to take God's name in vain.

===================

notice the 'details' in that response - - regarding your own proposal that we keep God's Word at its "pristine level".

in Romans 6 Paul flat out condemns the idea (of breaking God's commandments) for Christians.
In fact in 1 Cor 6 he introduces that condemnation of Christians with these words "do not be deceived".

thus it is still 'sin' - to "take God's name in vain" even for Christians.
The point remains.
Obviously.



Then stop doing it. And we can move forward... it is that simple.

Hint - notice the title of this thread as compared to Genesis 3 where Satan says "Has God really said ...?"

So in response to "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" in 1 John 3:4 we have "IS sin really the transgression of the LAW?"

The argument "is with the text"

The letter kills(the letter of the TC/moral law)

So:

If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them 1John1:8

Same as saying:

If anyone claims not to break the law they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.

Wish you would address the points written to you. I completely agree with you:
Sin is the transgression of the law written on the mind and placed on the heart of believers.
However, the letter of the TC/moral law kills, as scripture tells us.
So your belief that you are under the condemnation of the law, if you break the law once your debt has been expunged means, all Christians are under the condemnation of the law

 

[BobRyan]

If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them 1John1:8
.

Not the same as "no one -- not even Christians can refrain from living in rebellion against God" --

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you SIN NOT"

Does not say "I write to you that cannot stop sinning"

Bible details matter.

Paul makes that case in Romans 8:4-11

Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.