Is Showing Cleavage Immodest? What Does the Bible Say?

[AutumnDreamer]

If you notice, I was just showing that the principle of motive ultimately falls short. But anyways...

We all know the "trouble areas" of the male and female body, those are what we have to try to cover our best. You knew it from the time you went through puberty and you started developing. I don't understand why for 5950 years we all understood what modest was, what we had to cover up. Now all of a sudden around the 50s our standards kept declining and declining.

You don't have to dress as the Muslims do, but don't you think you should do your best to cover up the "trouble areas"? Looking at the model of clothing we can find in the Bible, shouldn't we at least try to match that, rather than settling for cleavage? I wonder what all the well endowed women of the Bible did. "Well look at how big my chest is, I just have to show cleavage!" I don't think so...

Um if you look at how they dressed in the bible, they wore clothes very similar to what the muslims wear. Also they did not have bras during the bible times, so cleavage was a none issue. Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra. Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.

 

[Merlin]

Now, my motives are pure, but at the same time murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hmmm...
I always thought salvation is in Jesus.
Murders such as King David or Moses won't 'inherit the kingdom'?

 

[Merlin]

Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra.

For small breasted women this is true.
For us with larger breasts this is not true.

Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.

This also is not accurate.
Size doesn't depend on food consumed.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

For small breasted women this is true.
For us with larger breasts this is not true.

I do not have cleavage unless I am wearing a bra.

This also is not accurate.

Size doesn't depend on food consumed.

You are half right, it does not depend on food consumed, but it does largely depend on hormones consumed, through the food.

 

[CharAznable]

Um if you look at how they dressed in the bible, they wore clothes very similar to what the muslims wear. Also they did not have bras during the bible times, so cleavage was a none issue. Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra. Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.

You are right. Women didn't have to deal with the issue of cleavage, they chose to cover themselves.... Interesting...

Clothing during Bible times didn't include a headdress that covered everything in except your eyes, it covered the top of your head to protect you from the sun. The face and hair were NOT covered. Everything else was. And this is how it was for centuries until the church started becoming silent on issues, and the world began to tell women to "show me what you're working with".

The whole "women didn't grow like that back then" is completely unfounded. The fact of the matter is this: There was loose clothing that covered your body for years and its still out there. Women who have the physical ability to wear it should, and the same goes for men! Too often we stop and say "Well I could wear that, but then I won't look attractive". We all need to decide what's more important to us, our love of God, or our love of attention and validation from others.

 

[CharAznable]

Hmmm...
I always thought salvation is in Jesus.
Murders such as King David or Moses won't 'inherit the kingdom'?

When the Bible says "Those who do XYZ will not inherit the kingdom of God", it is saying that such an act is sin. Therefore, those who have lifestyles with the sinful act will not inherit the kingdom of God. One act doesn't keep you out of heaven if you've accepted Jesus Christ as savior. At the same time, living a lifestyle of sin without repentance shows you have not accepted Jesus Christ.

When I originally wrote that, I was just using another way to say that murder is a sin.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

You are right. Women didn't have to deal with the issue of cleavage, they chose to cover themselves.... Interesting...

Clothing during Bible times didn't include a headdress that covered everything in except your eyes, it covered the top of your head to protect you from the sun. The face and hair were NOT covered. Everything else was. And this is how it was for centuries until the church started becoming silent on issues, and the world began to tell women to "show me what you're working with".

You are right, women did not have everything but their eyes covered, I was not refering to the headwear, but the dress itself. It was a one piece dress that covered everything from neck to toe just like the muslims wear.

The whole "women didn't grow like that back then" is completely unfounded. The fact of the matter is this: There was loose clothing that covered your body for years and its still out there. Women who have the physical ability to wear it should, and the same goes for men! Too often we stop and say "Well I could wear that, but then I won't look attractive". We all need to decide what's more important to us, our love of God, or our love of attention and validation from others.

Actually it is not unfounded, do some research, is fact that the hormones people ingest in this day and age, largely impact their physcial make up. The "well I could wear this but then I won't look attractive" is ridiculous to even think that way, wanting to look attractive is not a sin. Again it all comes down to motive. I assume you are single, when you look for a woman to date do you look for one that is attractive and well dressed? Or do you look for someone that is dressed frumpy so they don't draw attention to themselves? Your arguement is losing its value, b/c the guidelines you are suggesting women live by (loose and frumpy vs. fitted and attractive) is not a standard that you would hold a woman to were you looking for a wife.

 

[Merlin]

I do not have cleavage unless I am wearing a bra.

And you are likewise DD?

You are half right, it does not depend on food consumed, but it does largely depend on hormones consumed, through the food.

If this were true, then women on birth control hormones would drag on the ground after a few years.

 

[Merlin]

When the Bible says "Those who do XYZ will not inherit the kingdom of God", it is saying that such an act is sin. Therefore, those who have lifestyles with the sinful act will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Have not all sinned and fallen short?

 

[CharAznable]

You are right, women did not have everything but their eyes covered, I was not refering to the headwear, but the dress itself. It was a one piece dress that covered everything from neck to toe just like the muslims wear.

Well then you made my argument for me. Is clothing like this too much to ask for God? Why did it suddenly become such an unbearable burden for people? If you don't want to wear a one-piece suit, fine. Wear a two-piece suit that has you COVERED. Thank you.

Actually it is not unfounded, do some research, is fact that the hormones people ingest in this day and age, largely impact their physcial make up.

Hormones do impact it, but not nearly as much as you would have us believe. Hormones in food have, for the most part, impacted how early children start to develop. Yes, it may have some affect on how well-endowed children these days are becoming, but not to the extent you want us to think.

The idea that "women back then weren't as big" is ridiculous. Would you have me believe that there were no well-endowed women in the Bible days? Futhermore, do you even have proof? I would love to see a link to show this.

The "well I could wear this but then I won't look attractive" is ridiculous to even think that way, wanting to look attractive is not a sin.

Let me make this clear: There is nothing wrong with wanting to be attractive. Do not get my words twisted.

What I am condemning is putting one's need to be attractive over your love for God (in this case, pursuit of modesty). Too many men and women have the opportunity to be properly clothed, but go for the immodest clothing because it makes them look attractive.

I contend that there are ways to look attractive while being as modest as humanely possible. Many will disagree, and the only thing they will have to say in their defense is "Well that shirt will make me look old. That's old people's clothes!"

Again it all comes down to motive. I assume you are single, when you look for a woman to date do you look for one that is attractive and well dressed? Or do you look for someone that is dressed frumpy so they don't draw attention to themselves?

When I look for a woman, I look for a woman of God. That comes first and foremost! I don't care if they look "frumpy", in fact, I have been attracted to women who look "frumpy" because I could look past what they were wearing and got to know who they were!

Outside appearance is not a determining factor for me, believe it or not.

Your arguement is losing its value, b/c the guidelines you are suggesting women live by (loose and frumpy vs. fitted and attractive) is not a standard that you would hold a woman to were you looking for a wife.

My argument is not loosing its value. Again, why can't a woman wear loose clothing and be attractive? I'm literally confused here! Why is this feat so impossible?

I don't understand how men have found women to be attractive for thousands of years when they were wearing loose clothing, but now all of a sudden in the last 50-100 years, its impossible to find such a woman. Are you trying to say that women today are not as beautiful as women of the past? Then and only then does your argument make sense. Because then women would have to show cleavage, have to wear tight clothing just to make up for their lack otherwise.

No, I think women are beautiful period. I go to church and see modestly dressed women be attractive. No cleavage, no tight clothes etc. Its not impossible. The truth is many women only dress this way in church, and that's sad. Again, you don't need to wear a business suit every day, but you can be covered and be attractive.

Furthermore I don't see why "fitted" has to equal "tight". I'm not trying to say that she has to wear an umbrella for a skirt. At the same time, you can wear fitted clothing that doesn't hug every last curve you have.

Finally, please don't assume to know who and what I would like until you get to know me. Please, you can go to the park and see attractive females jog in baggy sweats!

Modesty is real, its obtainable, its acheivable and its still attractive! We all need to strive for the best possible for God, "settling" will not please Him. We should all work towards being able to say at the end of each day "Today I gave my very best to God!"

 

[CharAznable]

Have not all sinned and fallen short?

Yes, all have sinned. At the same time, those who come to Christ are NEW creations!

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We are to no longer live in sin.

Romans 6:1-2 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How
shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

To not repent is to perish!

Luke 13:5 - I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

We will still sin as Christians, but our continual lifestyle of sin has to come to an end.

Again, my original intention in that post was just to say that murder was a sin. I was just using a different method of saying it. That's all.

I am not saying that once you sin once, you are a fake Christian. I am not saying that.

 

[bliz]

The fact of the matter is this: There was loose clothing that covered your body for years and its still out there. Women who have the physical ability to wear it should, and the same goes for men! Too often we stop and say "Well I could wear that, but then I won't look attractive". We all need to decide what's more important to us, our love of God, or our love of attention and validation from others.

I'm curious, CharAzanble, what do you wear? You say here that women and men should wear loose clothing that covers the body. Pants, which hug the buttocks and thigh and reveal the presence of male genatalia, hardly seem appropriate. So, what do you wear? Some sort of tunic over your trousers? What do you wear that does not reveal your shoulder and chest size? Modest clothing is called for for both men and women.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

And you are likewise DD?



If this were true, then women on birth control hormones would drag on the ground after a few years.

I am a DD and then some, I should be more but refuse to buy bigger as I am trying to lose weight and I know I will lose there first. It is actually proven that women on BC do have larger boobs, when they cease the BC they notice the size of their boobs going down.

 

[CharAznable]

I'm curious, CharAzanble, what do you wear? You say here that women and men should wear loose clothing that covers the body. Pants, which hug the buttocks and thigh and reveal the presence of male genatalia, hardly seem appropriate. So, what do you wear? Some sort of tunic over your trousers? What do you wear that does not reveal your shoulder and chest size? Modest clothing is called for for both men and women.

I don't wear a tunic, but again my clothes are loose enough to not show every last detail of my body. I wear pants and shirts small enough so that fit me and don't fall off of me, but big enough to not show the details.

A woman with a large chest will have her shape shown no matter what, but cleavage isn't the answer, that only makes things worse. My point that I've been trying to hit home the whole time is do your best, don't settle.

 

[bliz]

So is you walk up steps, you are pulling the fabric of your pants tight across your buttocks, are you not? When you sit in a chair, others can see the shape of your butt from the back of, say, a folding chair.

Do you sit with your legs together so that you are not displaying your crotch to the women and girls present? Pants encourage men to open up their legs and call attention to themselves, which certainly is not modest! Jesus never wore pants. Why can't you follow the example of Jesus? Why is it so hard for you to dress like our Savior dressed? It seems to me that you have been influenced by our modern culture's ideas of what is acceptable in men's attire. Turn to Jesus, not to the world's for an example of how you should dress.

 

[CharAznable]

Is this post sarcastic or not? I hope this is a sarcastic post, if not, I'm not too sure about you... lol

So is you walk up steps, you are pulling the fabric of your pants tight across your buttocks, are you not?

No. Tight jeans aren't for me.

When you sit in a chair, others can see the shape of your butt from the back of, say, a folding chair.

No.

Do you sit with your legs together so that you are not displaying your crotch to the women and girls present?

Not completely together, that's physically difficult for a man, if you know what I mean. Well maybe you don't, I don't know. But I don't sit with them open either! I will never forget the example my health teacher in 9th grade gave. He was talking about the sexual messages men send to women with their body language. And he gave an example where he sat in the front of the class and sat with his legs open. He then said "Now come on guys, what message do you really think this sends to the opposite sex?" And that really made me realize that I need to be cognizant of what I do and wear in front of the opposite sex. After that, I sat with my legs faily closed ever since.

Pants encourage men to open up their legs and call attention to themselves, which certainly is not modest!

I don't know where you got that from, but it hasn't encouraged me to do a thing. If it encourages you to do so, then maybe you can wear a kilt.

Jesus never wore pants. Why can't you follow the example of Jesus? Why is it so hard for you to dress like our Savior dressed? It seems to me that you have been influenced by our modern culture's ideas of what is acceptable in men's attire. Turn to Jesus, not to the world's for an example of how you should dress.

Actually, men wore pants in the Bible days under their tunic, they also wore breeches, but anyways...

Why can't I follow the example of Jesus? I am following His example. I dress modestly. That's the example. Tomorrow you will scream at me for not getting baptized in the same body of water that He did.

Meanwhile, you are telling me to do all of this. Are you doing any of this? If not, you are being a hypocrite. If you are being sarcastic (which I hope you are) then you are just missing my point.

No man or woman has to wear a tunic, he or she just has has to be covered and loose.

 

[chi_rho]

dude why does it matter so much?? really who cares, its a relationship with God that cares, if anything in my experiances issues like this are fueled by the church...wear this, you cant wear that...gossip blah blah blah, as long as your comfortable get over it.

 

[CharAznable]

dude why does it matter so much?? really who cares, its a relationship with God that cares, if anything in my experiances issues like this are fueled by the church...wear this, you cant wear that...gossip blah blah blah, as long as your comfortable get over it.

Why does it matter so much? For the fact that we have a relationship with God! Why does any sin matter? Because we love him so much! Christianity is so "backwards" compared to other religions. Every other religion is based on works, Christianity is based on faith. On that very relationship you mentioned.

Imagine the human being you love the most, the strongest relationship you have. Think about how you treat them. Would you say "My lack of love for you doesn't matter, as long as I'm comfortable." Of course you wouldn't say that! However the bible tells us the love of God is that we follow his commands! Therefore since we love God will all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, everything that hinders us from doing God's will matters to us because we love Him and want to do everything in our power to please Him!

 

[Dylan_Chica]

i wouldn't worry about chi_rho, she's 18 and has had sex so many times, she's not a virgin and not married and doesn't understand why other people can't have sex before marriage. agressive and intolerant person. have fun in hell.

 

[CharAznable]

i wouldn't worry about chi_rho, she's 18 and has had sex so many times, she's not a virgin and not married and doesn't understand why other people can't have sex before marriage. agressive and intolerant person. have fun in hell.

Don't say that, never wish that on someone. Just pray for her.